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Mace, great time and no need for me to run after reading that - am worn out My fastest mile to date is still 7:45 and doubt I'd ever be able to string 26 of them together.
Rubbish, you stole my username lol. I've just started HADDing and gone from 11:15-11:30 Min miles everywhere at about 80% to 12mm @68% WHR and feel much better but still waiting for the good things to happen.
Chick - as with Mace your goal of 7:45mm is still like me running 26 back to back PB's so hats off to you
Me? I'll be happy with a 4:59:59 in September
Mace, thanks for the data and your perspective on the P&D plan. It's great to hear I may be in the ballpark at this point. But agree, it all comes down to endurance.
Chick, good to hear from you! I'm glad your training has gone well. Nice job on the half. You are definitely someone who can trust her training. Based on what I read over the past year you rarely miss a planned workout. So you've done all the work, now you'll just have to trust yourself. Remember too that your reason for madness (taper) should ensure you are super ready to run your target pace. Perhaps it will feel better than you think on race day. Anyway, I hope it all goes well for you.
Brian. wrote (see)
Chick, good luck! A good yardstick is that if you can smile and high-5 the spectators on tower bridge at h/w, you're on for a good'un.
I will be running in Hamburg, Brian . Coincidentally it's on the same day as VLM.
Chick - is there a way to track you ?
Brian - going for a PB? - Good luck
Andi - how was running by the Rhone? Flatter I bet!
mace: not sure about tracking - but google Hamburg Marathon - at least you can scan the results and figure out if I was shit or not My number is F1171
chickadeee, all the best for this w/e, spent a few weeks sleeping rough looking for work in Hamburg, way back in time, 70tees I think.
BeDe wrote (see)Andi - how was running by the Rhone? Flatter I bet!
Yup, flat, straight and actually quite boring. Was also heading toward 30 degrees C on my 3 runs there so hard work even though it was flat. I did manage to do a mile in my Vibram FF Bikilas a couple of times on some hillier bits.
Good luck to all marathoners this w/end
chickadeee wrote (see)
Thanks guys Brian. wrote (see)
I will be running in Hamburg, Brian . Coincidentally it's on the same day as VLM.
lol ... so if you see Tower Bridge, then you're lost!
Chick, you RULE!!! Congrats!
Did I miss your time on the thread Chick?
Sounds like you finished from what VT and mace say, so I'll go along with them - CONGRATS
Thanks guys! I took a risk and set off at 3:21 pace but couldn't keep that going. At the halfway mark my quads really started complaining. It's the price I paid for going out at a pace that I never trained at methinks. Bit annoying because CV-wise I felt absolutely fine. If HADD taught me one thing it's to listen to my heart . But, no risk, no fun. It was still a very enjoyable outing even though the final 12k hurt like hell.
chick - great that you took the risk as if you know you're at or near your limit the hr/pace knowledge gained should maximise future training as you can work on improving that limit. If you don't take the risk it seems to me there's still uncertainty about what you are truly capable of for the training you've done.
I can relate to your CV comment, i felt CV could have gone on and on but the quads wouldn't allow it.
good point about training at MP as well, those sessions in the long runs are really key aren't they ..... CONGRATS
Congratulations on the marathon Chickadee! Seems like everyone is doing well at the moment!
New week, new questions from me, I'm afraid! My HR is generally much better - it's now taking 1.5miles or so to reach 75% rather than 200 yards from my front door so I think I've shaken off the virus now. My pace isn't much better but I'm coming to terms with it!
Question - I was out for 15 miles yesterday with a friend. HR was rock steady up to 8 miles then I had to drop the pace a bit to keep it lower. However, after 10 miles, it seemed there was nothing I could do to keep it below 85% (think I was knackered!!). However, still being 5miles from home and not having all day in which to do it, I had to keep going. Will I have undone the good of the first 10miles by running those last 5 at a higher HR?
Thanks in advance
Chick - sub-3:25 ...
before I introduce myself- well done chick that is awesome and inspirational.
I came into this thread for a short while when training for the Belfast marathon in 2012. I got the principal of HADD and wanted to follow the programme. But in all honesty I never managed to run at a pace which enabled me to build a 70%-75 base. Most of my running was high 70s and 80s. What happened to me during the marathon illustrated beautifully why I should have worked harder to follow the rules of HADD. Despite having a 10k time of 48 mins and having completed a number of 18 and 20+ mileage I just didn't have the core base. On marathon day I thought I had an outside chance of sub 4 and believed if not I would be ablout 4:10. On marathon day I blew up at mile 21 and went from just over 9 min miles to 11 and 12 and finished with 4:26. In the end I was delighted to be sub 4:30.
I lost focus in my running and have pretty much done nothing since July 2012. After many false promises I am now back and determined to follow he HADD programme and see where it takes me.
So first run tonight. My max heart rate is 210. So I am aiming for all runs to be below 158 75% at least until I can do 10 miles without drifting out of this. So tonight I managed 5 miles at an average heart rate of 156 and an average moving pace of 11.56.
It was a strange run. Firstly I was able to control my heart rate by slowing down which I have never been able to do before. Secondly the run felt so different to any run I have ever done before. I knew I was exercising but it did not feel like other runs tend to. My breathing was controlled throughout. I felt I had worked my body but it didn't feel exhausted. Had I had to go on I could have, it felt really quite civilised Although I was a tad embarrassed thinking if any other runners joined me I would have been mortified at how slow I was going and how I must have looked.
Just one question. When running at this heart rate can you overtrain? I am thinking that if I could find the time I could up the mileage fairly quickly at that pace and intensity.
dporvan, wecome back. And good luck as you begin to establish your base. In answer to your question, yes, you can overtrain. Overuse injuries are less common when you stay near 70% for all you efforts, but just the same you are still human and can break seemingly at any time. Lots of examples of that here. In fact, I've just developed a nice case of tendonitis along my big toe and I've been very careful. I would suggest going slowly and listening to your body. As we somtimes say round here "don't burn the cake."
So my toe thing has been building. I think the combo of 80% runs and long runs of 16-18 miles (both of which are new in the past 6 wks or so) has caught up with me. Ice and ibuprofin has calmed it quite a bit though. Was able to do an 80% run yesterday w/out pain...ice kept it pain free...a bit sore midmorning today, but ice took care of it again. Am proceeding cautiously.
Yesterday's 80% run was again at about 7:05 m/m at 80% or less. Didn't feel quite as fresh as last week's effort, but still pretty good. The leg turnover didn't feel so fast.
Hi dporvan and welcome back to HADDing I'm quite new to this as well but since I started have gone from running a mile @ 11:15 mim/mile without stopping to 11 miles @ 11:59 with a couple of walk breaks and an average WHR of 68%. As for ovetraining I guess you can even at a lower HR but I find I can run consecutive days with no aches or pains these days.
VTr, I hope the toe heals quickly And one day would love to say I can run 7:05 miles at 80% or less
Right, my plan says that in just under 2 weeks I start (my first) Marathon training plan (18 weeks with 3 weeks built in for injury/illness). Would you guys suggest I just stick with HADD or should I go with the previously planned Hal Higdon Intermediate plan with a couple of tweaks? Am just aiming for 4:59:59 right now.
Are you looking at the Advanced I or Intermediate plan from Higdon (the link took me to the advanced)?
You may have already posted this, but what does a typical week look like for you now? Because you say you can run consecutive days w/out problems, you may be better off just continuing to HADD. I think you'll get better aerobic training via HADD than the intermediate plan due to getting in more time on your feet per week. I think Brian has frequently pointed out that the goal is to get your daily runs up to about an hour per session at 70%. Once you can do this 4-5 time per week, you can start increasing one of those runs to 90 minutes (then up to eventually 2.5-3 hrs). Whether you want to do any 80% runs or marathon pace runs per week may not be important this time around (but if it is, that would be the other run to layer in after the long run is established). But you may nearly be there now. In any case, by comparing what you are doing now to what the intermediate plan would have you doing, perhaps one will be a clear winner (or you could modify the plan to include some more HADD-specific work). I guess my feeling is that if you can get all your runs to 1 hr or more, you'll get maximal aerobic development. The key will be to take days off when needed (as opposed to say a 30 minute run). You know, I should probably stop here as it just dawned on me that I'm totally making this up as I go. I'm sure the others will have more concrete (and sensible) suggestions.
Txs VTr, and oops, tis late and it was the advanced plan I was looking at so will blame the drink for the wrong text on the link
Sadly I don't have a typical week and tend to have several non running days then 4 or 5 on the bounce usually covering about 20-28 miles averaging 66% of WHR (30 miles is a goal to hit very soon). I do like the 'easy' HADD running but wonder if I'll get faster quicker with some speed work? though as a newbie might just follow HADD and stick to the 70% and try and get in 1 or 2 80% runs in starting in a month or so.
And hey, if that was all made up then well done and tend to agree with you
I actually did the plan you linked for my 1st marathon. I think I was coming into it running about 20-25 mpw. I actually really liked it and I ran a strong race (had gas left in the tank at the end). I would basically just follow it as is. Most weeks you'll be doing a marathon paced run on Saturday (treat this as your 80% run) followed directly by your long slow run (which it says to do at easy (70% in HADD-speak) effort) on Sunday. You'll get another speed session Thursday (hill repeats, 800s, or short tempos). The only other mid long run is tuesday (up to 10 miles I think at peak); I was never sure what effort to do this one at. I would suggest you treat it in the 70-75% range (go as you feel each week). Overall, you'll peak around 50 mpw. I would just be careful with the thursday speed work. I think I have a document that lists his additional week by week instructions. I'll try posting them if you want.
Txs VTr, I did like the look of the plan, my only worry being the 6 days a week as I find it difficult at the moment and whilst I am still a (slow) beginner I felt I'd be better off with the Intermediate plan and 6 days rather than a beginners plan with 3-4 days and could drop off a couple of easy days if things got tough?
Am doing Loch Ness in September and it is a net decline I'm told so will substitute some of the Hill sessions for downhill sessions. I'd love a link to your extra documents if you could please.