HADD training plan



  • Nice watch spen! That was my second choice and ended up going for the 910xt to replace my 405cx, decided to stick with garmin as I know the watch and their software. I don't use contact gel but should do as sometimes I get weird readings in the first half mile (have some Lanacane anti chaffing gel that would probably work).

    A long way for me to go before tapering - start a 21 week marathon plan on Monday so plenty of time to find one. 

    Chickadeee, yup a minute is a lot and will continue trying it to see if it works long term image Calves are a little tender today but that might be down to the .8 mile in the Vibrams.


  • Hi Guys and Gals

    I'm out of the loop for quite a while - fractured vertebrae. Rolled the trials car at the weekend, it landed on my leg and then my back - ouch.

    In a spine splint for 6 weeks and we'll take it from there image

  • Got the suunto for battery life   can be out for 30 hours on an ultra

  • Jeez BeDe!!! I guess the good news is you are here to tell us about it. Sorry to hear this sad news and hope the 6 weeks flies by and you can then begin to recover. 

    An the award for most understated comment goes to BeDe for "ouch"

    spen, yup, battery life was one of the things I think the suunto has over garmin, the 910 says 20 hours with 1 second updates and 50 hours with 1 minute updates but much prefer the 1 second updates.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    BeDe imageimage ... take care!

  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭

    Ran 5 miles and found myself running 11 min miles for a heart rate of 150bpm. I'll stick with it and hopefully that will come down. Won't do a HRmax test for another couple of weeks probably. 

  • BeDe, definitely take it easy. Best of luck on the recovery!

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    Khanivore - that sounds perfect to me, and you will get quicker just stick with it


    BeDe - terrible luck image


    First run since Brighton where I've felt back to normal this morning . Beautiful day and I ran down to the local nature reserve and back. Few ups and downs but stuck to 70% all the way and did 7M @ 8:30 @ 70%.


    Listened to some of last weeks marathon talk and a certain forumite got a mention for her recent 3:24 pb at Hamburg .......  CHICKADEE image


  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    image  my 2 secs of fame image

    BeDe imageimageimage   what a total shocker! Hope it mends with no lasting damage.

    spen71 wrote (see)

    What do you use as a contact gel

    I bought some ultrasound gel off the web - costs a quid or so. KY jelly does the trick too ... more expensive though.

  • Thanks all - I'm in a spine brace which should keep my T7 vertebrae straight. Interestingly (or not as the case may be) I was kept in hospital for 4 days, not because of the fracture, but because of the crushing to the muscles. When muscle trauma happens they release an enzyme called Creatine Kinase in some serious quantities and this is bad for the kidneys - from what I can make out normal CK-MM (skeletal muscle measurement for CK) is around 40 - 180 per lite of blood, mine was over 4000 on my notes!! So 3 days were spent on IV fluids being pumped through my body to ensure the kidneys were flushed through. I could have floated a battleship with the amount of water I passedimage

    What has all this to do with running then? Well on reading about CK it appears that endurance runners can have an increased amount in their blood due to the small amount of muscle trauma one can get from long distance runs. Another good reason to drink plenty after a race - however, again it depends on the individual. Further research and I found link to a paper that was written on the subject (downloadable as pdf):

    Creatine Kinase Elevations in Marathon Runners: Relationship to Training and Competition

    Enjoy the read - the link is;



  • Malvern 50 miles completed   was on track for sub ten hours

      Got lost and added 3 miles. ...

  • Khanivore,  I just finished 12 weeks base training and rather than going faster I was trying to get my HR% down for the same speed (11:30-12:00 min miles) went from 152bpm to 147, 145 and 143. Marathon training starts today so shall see if that helps me any.

    Mace, well done on the run, I have a long way to go to get to that speed if I ever do.

    Ooohh, chickadee, I know someone who is famous image 

    BeDe, jeez, that is some increase! I didn't read the article (is bookmarked) does it say what is 'normal' for a distance runner? 

    spen, well done on your run, not sure how ultras work but did you miss a marker?

    Day #1 of Marathon Training today, was a recovery day and just 3 miles but was hard with heavy rain and wind. Ended up doing a little over 5k at 72% however I redid my RHR at the weekend and it's down to 50bpm from 60 so about the same effort as normal.

  • Andi   I just read the map wrong with 3 miles to go.....

  • Hope you all enjoyed the long weekend!  Glorious sunshine here today  - pity it wasn't about yesterday.

    I've started to notice some improvements - middle of last week I noticed that I had to move my legs a bit faster to keep my HR up.   Thought it was a fluke but it's continued.  I think the magic is starting to happen image

    I don't have anywhere to do a 2400m test so I'm just going to use my 10miler every 4 weeks as a benchmark.  On Saturday, AHR was 148 and mile splits as follows:

    9.50 (downhill and eager!), 10.28,10.52, 11.02, 10.56,11.02, 10.58, 11.00, 11.06, 10.53.

    Pretty steady so I'm happy with that.  Averaged 10.32 this morning so definitely getting there.  I'm going to start with one shorter 80% run a week now so I'm hoping that things will continue to get better!  I'll post my times in 4 weeks for a comparison.

    Happy today image

  • spen, I struggle to run let alone map read at the same time so would get well lost!

    rr, gales and storms here all weekend but cleared up nicely today. Glad to hear Hadding is working for you already image Am sure I read no need to do a 2400 test till your running 50+ miles a week? but like you I try to do one run a month at pace though still wayfully slow. Nice splits btw and if you were not so eager and mile #1 was in the 10:50 area you may have been even faster?

    Day 2 of Marathon Training here and was hills, probably not the right way to do things but went to my Nemisis, about 1/2 mile uphill and lots of it 14%. Sort of morphing HADD and Hal Higdon I jogged from the car down the hill and decided when I hit 80% I'd walk/jog back down till I got to 70% then start back up again repeating till I'd covered 1.5 miles.

    Just before I went out my footpod arrived and five minutes later it was paired with the 910xt and on my shoe, 5k average cadence was 73 but this involved plenty of walking, the uphill sections all came out at 83 so hopefully not much work to get to the 'magical' 90 (or 180 steps pm). Am pretty sure the footpod is going to help me 'manage' hills as I was keeping an eye on it and shortening my stride to keep the cadence up whilst monitoring my HR - multitasking is not my forte mind image

  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    the cadence stuff sounds complicated, Andi image

    spen: well done on completing 50 miles plus 3 image

    RR: good news on the improvement. I have sort of given up on the 2400m test as well. As long as you see your pace / HR ratio improve on normal runs that's good enough methinks. You will see massive improvements with the introduction of 80% runs. It's those and a long run that really boost the aerobic capacity.

    BeDe: that sounds really scary image! Recover well. 

  • BeDe, tough luck! Keep us informed of progress. We'll have you hadding again before you can say magnificent mitochondrial development.

    Chick, bang on!

    Spen, you are a mileage monster. Methinks 50 just wasn't far enough for youimageimageimageimageimage

  • Chickadee, not really complex and monitoring/altering cadence takes my mind off runningimage I like the idea of maintaining cadence uphill and reducing stride length and using the same energy (though that is not easy as I found out today).

  • Spen, congrats on the race! Can't really imagine running that far. You're my idolimage.


    So I'm currently in the Mts in Italy for a meeting. Talk about some hill work. Been cool to mix it up a bit though. Today I ran/walked a trail to a neighboring town, then ran up, up, and up some more to some awesome views. A person could get seriously strong running hills like these all the time. Can't wait to get home and fly on some relatively flat ground.

  • Spen - great run - 50 miles (are you serious??? or just madimage)

    Brian - thx - t'was scary, I'm improving slowly - no running for goodness knows how long, may have to do some cycle work when the brace comes off.

  • VT - jealous image.

  • VT, you probably need more than a week on those hills to gain any lasting benefit but yes those legs will cover more gorund when you back image

    First week of Marathon Training and yesterdays run should have been recovery but the rain and wind was biting I just ran hard to get it over with so today I planned on going for recovery again and just had 1 screen on my watch (HR, AHR, %HR & %AHR). Drove to a flatish spot and ran 4 miles trying to keep %HR below 70% and all was fine until the 4th mile when it increased to 72% even with a couple of walk breaks. However, when finished I found it was 5 seconds/mile faster than race pace so quite chuffed image

  • VT, good hill training. Hopefully improving your strength. Sounds a decent spot for sightseeing too. Safe journey home.

    Andi, nice low intensity stuff. Sensible recovery scheduling. 

    Good luck to those of you starting mara training.

    I ran the first of 3 5ks on wed eve. Pleasantly surprised with 18.22. Was originally hoping to get into 17.xx territory for the first time in years. But if I can knock ~ 10s off that I'll be happy. 2 more to come on the next 2 Wednesdays. 

  • Well done Brian!


    I got another great session in yesterday...2 miles over a rocky trail (which was cool because it was totally different for me AND I didn't wreck an ankle)...then 3 miles straight up the mtn...Kept my HR around 160 and just locked in at that effort. Beautiful sights and a great challenge.


    Tomorrow I'm in Pisa...will do a long run along the river and around the tower, etc...then off to Cinque Terre to hike through the 5 villages and take in the sea views.

  • I'd be more than 'pleasantly surprised' with an 18:22 Brian!

    Sounds idyllic VT image

    Am glad today is my day off, it's dreich here image


  • Tis v quiet in here at the moment, everyone ok?

    Really need to work on my pace - tried for 6 miles @12min miles tonight and ended up at 11:39 though still managed 72% of WHR and the wind was gusting up to 45mph! A couple of times I had to turn round so I could breath image

  • I've got the lurgy so a few days off

  • Andy - still here

    2 weeks into the spine brace and every time I get driven down the road I normally run on I feel so pi***d offimage

  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    Sounds hard, BeDe image

    I did my first 80% run since the marathon. 10 miles with 9 @ 80%. Was struggling with massive gusts so pace was pretty uneven. Av. page 8:10, av. HR 145. Not too bad. Couple more weeks down the line and I should be where I was pre marathon.

    Always takes me ages to recover image

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Still haven't run since the disasterous parkrun on 6th April ... things have improved over the past couple of weeks, so I may try a test run at the weekend (surely 6 weeks is enough!).

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