HADD training plan



  • Dr Dan - my sympathies.

    It's the foot as i remember??

  • BeDe hope you have a speedy recovery.

    Dr Dan desperate times calls for desperate measures.

    Spen your doing the only thing you can, that's rest.

    And hi to all the rest of you

    Tewksbury half this Sunday.

    Really looking forward to it as its flatter than the Worcester half I ran and had a PB of 7 mins in a time of 1.38.48  five weeks ago


  • Oh dear, sounds like a sorry bunch, 1 Lurgy sufferer, 2 injuries and 1 in Recovery - glad your all still around and hope your all back to running soon (BeDe, you can have extra recovery time!)

    Hill training today but didn't feel like running the 2.5 miles to my 'designated' hill so stopped around 1.25 miles from home and a hill that until recently reduced me to walking though it's actually not as lone or steep as I thought (maybe it's all in the mind?)

    Garmin puts it at either .1 or .11 of a mile and anything between 34 and 41ft Incline. as I'm Marathon Training I guess it's too short? I had 5 goes at running up it 52, 53, 52, 54 & 55 seconds so quite pleased with how close the times were and about 8:20 min miles.

    Even after taking my walk breaks out of the averages BPM was just 142 (67% of WHR). Am I not working hard enough? too long a recovery (about 2 mins), .1 of a miles isn't far enough to get it up (ooeer), just not got the speed/stamina yet? And lastly, would I gain more benefit running up longer hills?

  • Andi 1 min work and 2 mins recovery don't seem right, now if you turn it round to 2 min work and 1 min recovery, and over time cut recovery and or increase work load.

    You could also as you get fitter rather than walk down hill jog down so keeping HR at a higher level for the next uphill run.

    Hope this doesn't sound pompous.

  • Roy, basically my thoughts, guess I wanted to hear it from someone else and nope, not pompous at all - makes perfect sense. The bigger hill I planned to run is 1/2 mile long a quite steep, last time I did some repeats on it I ran until I got to 80% then turned round and walk/jogged till it was 70% then repeated. 

    If I can't be bothered running the 2.5 miles to that Hill I'll drive it if it's not raining and it's off road too so safer image

  • Andi, sounds like the elements are against you for sure.  I hate running in the wind! 

    I attempted my first 80% run this week - ha!  Not the most successful!  I will try again next week and see how things go.  I've re-read Hadd and I'm now working to most of my runs being at 145bpm with one or two a week increasing to 160.  I seem to find it harder to keep HR steady when I'm going a bit faster - major focus required!  Easy runs are definitely getting easier though.  I had to consciously increase my pace to get above 140 this morning.

    Sorry to hear of everyone's tales of woe - hope you're all back on track ASAP!

  • RR, am with you there, I don't particularly like running in the rain, snow, heat but HATE high winds image

    With all the hills here my HR is always up and down (see what I did there) so look to an average over the run though try to keep an eye on my current HR. Like you I'm finding it takes longer to get my HR up and ran a steady (but slow) Mile yesterday before WHR reached 60% - used to be a hundred yards or so.

  • Brian. wrote (see)


    I ran the first of 3 5ks on wed eve. Pleasantly surprised with 18.22. Was originally hoping to get into 17.xx territory for the first time in years. But if I can knock ~ 10s off that I'll be happy. 2 more to come on the next 2 Wednesdays. 

    Nice one Brian. That will have been the Esholt race series.


  • Oh dear, I must try to get this pacing thing rightimage Was supposed to be 30 mins at MP today (11:16) but the first mile was 9:20 and thought 'ello, sub 5k on the cards'. 9:20, 10:05 and 10:15 later I ran the final .1 and finished in 30:35 - still my best 5k time since starting running again so happy image

    Average WHR was 70%! Am thinking I have a stamina issue lol.

  • Well guys and gals - off to the Spanish mountains tomorrow for 10 dyas rest and recoup. Should be interesting going through airport security with my metal cage on image.

    Look forward to reading how you've all got on when I return.

    Andi - can't think of a better place to train than Mull!! HADD starting to kick in? along with the supported marathon training? Keep going!!

    Rubbish - don't worry about the 80% being awful, it actually takes more out of you than you think. After running @ 75% or less for 16 weeks I remember then running 80% once a week - and yes it certainly had a great effect on my base running but also I nearly got injured - so easy does it - you'll be fine.

    Johnny Bike - welcome backimage How is your training going?

  • BeDe, hope you have a good break/recouperation and have fun going through customsimage I have a friend that walks with crutches and they take them off her then wonder why she won't walk through the detector - it's because she can't walk without them!

    and yes, Mull is a lovely place to run and slowly learning to like hills image I do think HADDing has helped but need to work on endurance I think - a few LSR's should help that (as would stopping smoking I guess).

  • There will not be many on this forum that smoke Andi.

    My training is going well, 35mpw and starting to feel stronger. A good mixture of easy,steady and tempo runs. Lost 9lbs since Jan. Feeling very positive.

  • I stopped smoking when I quit drinking.   Nearly 2 1/2 years ago.   Best thing I ever did.


    Im not running till Monday.   So I will have a full 8 days off without running.   Hopefully I will not lose too much fitness.

  • 35 miles a week sounds good Johnny image if I get my weekend runs in I hope to hit 30 miles for the first time ever.

    spen, fingers crossed your break refreshes you and you return with more injury image

    yup, smoking and running are not good partners, just had a friend give me 400 duty free fags so it would be wrong to try and stop nowimage


  • Spen, I just took a 10 day break...my runs right after the break had a higher HR for about a 10-12 days but everything was back to good within 2 wks.

    I gave up nicotine in 2004 (mainly chew but cigs when drinking too). The absolute best thing I have done in my adult life (aside from marrying my wife and having my kids). Going through life chained to that monster is no way to live. Now my only major addictions are Coke Zeroimage and, of course, runningimage.

    So my toe seems to be holding steady. Got a nice 80% run in on Monday (day after returning from Italy) and nailed an 18 miler on Thursday. No lingering effects after either of those runs (and got 55 miles in this week). Game on.

    Am circling on my target marathon for the Fall. Think I'll run the Twin Cities Marathon. It's supposed to be absolutely beautiful (think Minnesota foliage in October as the course winds through wooded running paths along several lakes and the Mississippi river). Tough 2 mile hill near the end but fairly flat overall. I grew up in MN and my family is still there...would be an awesome trip. Gotta stay healthy.

    Hope everyone else is recovering/doing well with the dings. Dr. Dan, did you try your foot?

    Brian, how did #2 go?

  • Also, some questions about how to get the HR monitor to read correctly. I recently have been having some issues early in my runs (1st 1/2 mile or so). I just use spit, but found that tightening my strap eliminated my issues (I think it gradually loosens over the months).

    Also, just a plug for the Garmin 910XT. I absolutely love this watch. The only catch is it's $$$ and doesn't really give a reliable instantaneous pace (but very good lap pace). But I don't use the instant pace anyways. In case anyone is looking for a new watch, running warehouse is having a 25% off sale now http://www.runningwarehouse.com/catpage-GAR25OFF.html


  • Andi - congrats on the 5k run - especially with the hills and wind!!  Sounds like things are improving well for you.  Imagine how fast you could go if you ditched the cigs - you'd be unstoppable!!

    BeDe - thanks for the words of encouragement.  I wasn't too upset, I just found it funny that I couldn't manage it at all without my HR bouncing around all over the place.  I'm going to try again in a couple of days so I'll try and pace myself a bit better and see how it goes.  I hope you made it through security okay and best wishes for your recovery!

    20 miles done for me today so I'm off for a well-earned beer!

  • Txs RR, If I where to quit smoking (a big if right now) what do you reckon it would do to my times? 1 min/mile off? Well done on the 20 miler!

    Started packing today so didn't go out in the end though plan to get out and do 11 miles tomorrow image Will save my 30 mile week for another time.

    Oh, and VT, not long had my 910xt but think I'm gonna like it. Got it as a Birthday Present when I realised my 405 wasn't going to last my 5 hour Marathon time image

  • Andi - I'm no expert I'm afraid - I've never even had one cigarette.  I am certain though that increasing your lung volume and function can only be beneficial to cardio work!!  I would guess at least a min/mile but maybe more?  Any ex-smokers about?

    Glorious weather today!  Long may it last image

  • RR, a bit of an open question really and guess the only way to find out is to quitimage Duty Free's are stacked up in the house so it might be a whileimage

    Arrggh, really need to work on my Pace - after Yesterdays horrible 11 miler (stiches, painfull knees, dehydrated) I went out for a 3 mile recovery run at  12 min miles. Ended up doing 5 miles at 11:13mm (3 seconds faster then MP) so guess my Hill Running tomorrow should be moved to Weds and try again for a recovery run tomorrow image

  • VT, Did 18:20 in #2. Just can't get in to the hurt zone! Good stuff with the mileage. Hope all goes well in your mara choice and training.

    BeDe, Hope the trip and recovery going well.

    Andi, Nice 5k.

    JB, I emailed you about the next 5mile handicap. We're back to your original course as the towpath is now open again.

    RR, Hope you enjoyed the post-20miler beer.

    Having watched my parents try in vain to quit, I feel fortunate not to have ever tried smoking. I have a raging hatred of it actually as my dad passed on in 2006 from lung cancer.

    Didn't run at all this weekend. Wemberleeee on Sat and cricket all day Sunday. Just about shook off my hangover now...... 5k #3 tomorrow. Hoping for 18:15ish.

  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    Hope everyone is on the road to recovery after various injuries, accidents, lurgies ...

    Andi: FFS - give up the fags! You can always flog the 400 on ebay image Smoking and running is not a good idea ... no idea how much quicker it'll make you but I guarantee you: it'll make you feel a million times better (I quit many moons ago after 12 years as a chain smoker) and it saves you $$$$. Don't think I could ever give up drinking though image  Nice 5k BTW.

    VT: great running by you! Wow, 55 miles - awesome!

    Brian: 18:xx and NOT in the hurt zone image? 18:xx would kill me!! Well done image

    RubbishRunner: well done on the 20

    I'm benched image  quad pain that I got when I tried to get out of my car post marathon never quite went away and with slightly more running it got worse. Decided to rest completely for a week and hope that will do the trick. Have a 10k on Sunday which I will run as it's literally next door (less than a mile from my house) but not expecting a PB or anything. If things start to tighten again I can always drop out and walk home image

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    VT - mine always plays up if i forget to tighten it. I find now that i have to tighten it right up every run as it works loose all the time. Maybe i need a new strap... image  Also, a bit of lubricating jelly improves the contact.

    Rubbish - enjoy the beer, i've forgotten what running a 20 miler feels like

    Andi - i gave up the smokes about 8 years ago and still remember vividly the burning in my throat first time i went for a run a few months after giving up. Giving up can only improve you, how much i don't know but for sure you'll never hit your potential all the time you're smoking.

    Brian - missed my long run Sunday for similar reasons image That's a corking 5k time. Talking of the hurt zone, i marshalled our local parkrun last Saturday and i was shocked how much the fella who won it seemed to be hurting as he went past me ... he was making a right old racket after just 2k, thought he was on his way out image I guess that's the pain you have to go through for a 15:30 and a 2minute win though. Sure made me consider how much more i could push myself  image 

    chick - sorry to hear that, think i'd give the 10k a miss myself but fingers x'd it holds up and good luck


  • Brian, awesome second run. The topic of pain is a good one. I'm reading "Running with the Buffalos..." now and in it the coach says to make it at the college level you need to have these four things: talent, determination, courage, and durability. I think to race effectively you do need courage because to me it's damn scary to run so fast for so long. Of these traits I think I have mainly the determination but the courage is coming as I get to know my limits.


    Stats for the weekend ILTHR


     This run shows me that I'm back to where I was before the recent time off. My legs not good for the 1st 3 miles (I have been getting tightness from my toes all the way up the front of my shins)...so stretched that area out and was really feeling nice until miles 9 and 10...was still able to maintain pace but didn't feel super fresh. Even if the pace doesn't move there is room for improvement in feeling less taxed during these efforts.

  • Brian, Excellent time for #2 - your flying!

    Guess I shouldn't have mentioned the smoking and all taken on boardimage

    VT, awesome run! each of your mile splits was 30 seconds or more faster than my best mileimage If I ran 10k and you ran 10 miles my splits may just about have beaten you lol. Good to hear your about back to normal and still have room for improvement!

    Nothing wrong with folks taking an odd weekend off for sport image

  • Morning all,

    Chick, hope the quad recovers quickly. Good luck with the 10k.

    mace, guess you were watching footie on Sat. Premier? Local team? The 5k is a totally different beast. I like to warm-up over the first mile or so. Just can't afford to do that in 3M. It's really weird but if I'm doing a ~3M tempo or similar in training, I can get to a higher effort level and come out with a higher HRav than I have done in the 5k races!!!!! What's that all about? 

    VT, What the author says about courage is true. And that sums me up - I run like a coward, I always have. I can count the times I have run to failure on the fingers of one finger. I think that it is a negative of running to HR, certainly for the longer runs. I have always run to the safe plan. Nice stats btw - good to see that your back to where you were.

    Andi, paces are all relative. Keep posting your progress. Steep improvement curve in front of you.

    After this week, and the series of 3 5ks, I am going back to 6 weeks of Hadd, punctuated with a hilly 10M race in the middle. So I can post without feeling like an imposterimage Then 15 week build-up to Amsterdam mara.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    My lad is supposed to be racing at Esholt tonight Brian, so might see you there (depends on his legs as he raced a 800m this afternoon).  I also lost my dad in 2006 to lung cancer, despite the fact he'd packed it in 20 years earlier. I've never smoked thankfully.

  • Brian. wrote

    VT, What the author says about courage is true. And that sums me up - I run like a coward, I always have. I can count the times I have run to failure on the fingers of one finger. I think that it is a negative of running to HR, certainly for the longer runs. I have always run to the safe plan. Nice stats btw - good to see that your back to where you were.

    Yep, sums me up quite well, have tried  running all out and something always goes wrong. It drives my mate mad because he is  the complete opposite to me, running wise.

    Up date on the Tewkesbury half marathon last Sunday, 23seconds slower than Worcester half 5 weeks earlier, but ave 5 bpm higher due to the warmer weather.

    The higher HR led me to a false sense of my speed ( did not start watch ) so slightly disappointed but have set a bench mark for the next Half in September.






  • As the Tragically Hip say, "Courage, you couldn't come at a worse time!"


    16 miles today (soaked through as I got caught in the rain about 3 times).

  • DrDan, How did jnr go on? Thanks for the encouragement at the end, was needed, I can tell you!

    Roy, Good luck with the Summer training. Are you hadding or more traditional training?

    VT, Great long run! No need to take a shower afterwards as wellimage

    #3 last night. Psyched myself up and gave it everything. 1st km in 3:22. After 3k it was just a case of running from memory. Nothing left in the tank at the end, got passed by about 4 runners in the last 100m, that's not like me! Happy though, a bit windier than the other 2 and another 3s knocked off for 18:17.

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