HADD training plan



  • spen, let us know how you get onimage my MP has me doing 6 miles at MP Sat and a 13 mile LSR on Sunday!

    Khan, as you said, keep plodding on and am sure those times will start tumbling in 4-6 weeks. I think us slow(er) runners have it harder than the fast peeps cos we are out there much longer than themimage

    I seem to remember you saying you don't walk but take tiny steps to keep your Cadence up? do you measure it cos I've just started keeping an eye on mine and trying to get to the (magical) 180 steps pm. I quite like working on same effort up hill with smaller strides but it's not as simple as that for me (yet).


  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭

    Andi I have a metronome but at the paces required to keep hr at 142 I can not take small enough steps to get to 180. I'm probably closer to 160 or 170.

  • I know Brian.   Im going to start with one at the 10 miles and the other at 6 miles and build it up.

  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭

    Guys would you say I should be 100% focussed on trying to get to 70% hr runs before starting to do the fast sub lt runs? If so in your experience how long would I be doing this - does 3 months sound right in your experience?

  • I've been reading Maffetones book which is very similar.   The more and more I think about it this base building works.   I've not been doing any hills at all recently and keeping my HR pretty low.   I'm now convinced that the hills have a negative effect as your HR is up and down to much and you are not sticking in the "zone" enough.   I've done ultras since I've done this and I have speed walked up the hills quicker than people trying to run them.   I think this is because my HR is just staying lower.

  • Hi all,

    It's been busy again, by the looks of things!  Everyone seems to be doing some pretty good running just now - definitely summertime in the air.  I've had a bit of a personal upset and fell off the face of the planet for a couple of weeks but feeling a lot better now.  Managed to keep running through it as well image

    Did my 10mile run today and I'm very pleased with my results!  Compared to 4 weeks ago when my AHR was 148 and my splits were around the 11min/mile mark, today's went as follows, with an AHR of 143:

    Mile 1:9.42, 2: 10.30, 3: 10.30, 4: 10.33, 5: 10.15, 6: 10.27, 7: 10.08 (!), 8: 10.13, 9: 10.12, 10: 10.31.

    Not sure why a bit faster in the middle - I did need to pee quite urgently so maybe rushing to the bathroom image I did a trail marathon last week but even during the week I've noticed that my times have been a bit better.  Things are looking up image

    Khanivore, I know you're struggling with the notion of slow times just now but things improve pretty quickly.  Your marathon time is MUCH faster than mine so I think you'll be flying once you're fully recovered!

    Have a great weekend everyone!

  • Khan, I've just completed 4 months of mainly 70% or less but sadly didn't complete the mileage I was after. I'd suggest working on your 70% for several months and yes, maybe re-assess in 3 months and am sure you'll see a big change soon.

    spen, interesting thought though were I live hills play a big role in all of my runs. I do think your right if (like) me you allow yourself to over 70% to get over the hill as my splits/bpm are all over the place even if the average WHR is sub 70%.

    RR, wb image your times have improved massively and I guess it's warmer now than a month ago so an even better result.

    Mixed feelings from todays planned 6 miler  @MP (11:16mm). I took a nasty tumble just after 5.2 miles and ended up on the floor with a badly jarred shoulder (my drinking arm as well). Removing the short break after my fall I continued on to 10k and a PB of 1:05:55. Am supposed to be doing 13miles tomorrow (have to add the extra .1 of course) and will take things easy and rather than worry about time try to run to a max of 70% WHR so plenty of walking methinks.

  • Andi - ouch!!  Hope you're not too sore today and that your 13(.1) miles went well.  Hot day for it! Well done on your PB though!  Did you do that thing when you fell where you first made sure nothing was broken and then looked around to see if anyone witnessed it?!

    I just had an easy 8miles this morning and really enjoyed it.  I love when everything's in glorious technicolour in the sunshine.  This running slow thing really allows you to enjoy running so much more.

  • Txs RR but sadly didn't make it out at all today, my shoulder is still sore and struggling to do basic things with it. First thing I did when I hit the floor was pause my watchimage A nice couple who saw my fall reversed back to me to make sure I was ok image

    It's always a good feeling when you have 'that' run image

    Am reading Heart Monitor training for the compleat idiot (their spelling not mine) and think I'll go back to 70% of WHR as a MAX not average for recovery days (though as spen suggests hills might be an issue).

  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭

    This weeks running was 11 hours of running over 6 days for a total of 50 miles at an average heart rate of 141 (77% if my max hr is accurate) at an average pace of 13.2 min/mile. It's an ok start I guess but I need to slow down and keep my heart rate much lower. I am hoping it will get easier over time. I did one of my runs at 155 hr average which pushed the average up a bit. Won't be doing that again.

    It was easy for me to dedicate a lot of time to running this week because the family are away. Will try to put in another 11 hour week next week but not sure where I will find the time. Might have to resort to doubles which I was hoping to avoid.


  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭

    Rubbishrunner your splits are brilliant! Thanks for sharing! That is a massive improvement in only 4 weeks!

  • Khan, 11 hours is a good effort! Big up on the dedication. I think 140 hr for you is about right. Consistency is the key now. The advice you have been given is spot on. Reassess every 6 weeks or so.

    Andi, Hope the shoulder (and other joints) are ok after your tumble.

    RR, Things are starting to happen for you - nice one. Keep a lid on and don't get too carried away. The novelty value of Hadd running can be almost obsessive.

    I did 2 hours yesterday in the sunshine, making 8.5 hours@68% in 6 days this week. Happy with that given I wasn't feeling 100%

  • Andi / Brian - my ranking (runbritain) jumped 14% for the HM after 1st year HADDing. Would be amazed if I can do that agian next year (still a llooooonnnnggg way down the rankings in V50) image

    Khan - just be careful you're not building up the mileage too quickly - that could also be detrimental to keeping your HR lower as not enough recovery time. That was why I asked how much you mileage you were doing a couple of pages ago. Remind me - if you were doing 25 - 30 after the Marathon then an extra 20 miles a week maybe too much too soon. I know you were up to 35-40 before but I think it needs a slower build up.

  • RR - great stuff - I know how you feel when the times start tumbling image. Are those 10m splits at 75%?

  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭

    BeDe it's a good point you make. I am listening to my body very carefully and I have absolutely no niggles, twinges or any soreness. I put it down to the slow pace. In fact I was tempted to run 7 days but I decided to enforce a 1 day break upon myself each week. I suspect I will be at about 40 miles this week as my family are back home and so getting 11 hours to run is going to be a massive challenge anyway.

  • Aaaargh - just wrote long reply to everyone and my machine's deleted it image

    Basically, thanks for the kind words everyone.  Bede, yes the splits are at just below 75%, my max HR is at least 200 so working off these figures from the Hadd document.

    Andi - hope you're feeling better!

    Khan - I know you'll be tired of hearing this but maybe consider repeating your max HR test!  You're much faster than me in the marathon and I think you're doing yourself a disservice with those slower times.  I'm definitely no expert though!

    Brian, won't get carried away as I don't have time to do much more!  Also, I'm not sure how I'll feel about jogging along when it's chucking it down with rain! Reality will kick in again!!

    Hope you all have a great week!

  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭

    Rubbishrunner - yup i'm definitely doing another max hr test for sure. Just waiting for this minor cold to clear up. This time I am going to do hill repeats rather than running 800m and 400m. I'll see if I can make it go higher on the hill! Not looking forward to it though image

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Khanivore ... just make sure you're HR is already ticking over nicely before you start teh hill repeats (otehrwise you'll burn out before maxing and have to do it all over again image).

    Well I think I'm back. After last week's 2M test run, I did the parkrun on Saturday as another test (ran with my daughter at 10/m) ... all okay ... so did 5.5M today at 9:07. After 3-4 miles, I could still feel a mild stiffness in the foot arch/heel area, so still a case of proceed with caution, but at this stage I think I'm better off runnign than not.

  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭

    Welcome back Dr Dan! Thanks for the tip. Will warm up before hitting the hills.

  • Dr Dan image

    So what treatment? Rest? Flexing? etc or any special inserts?

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    BeDE ...Mainly rest from runningimage  ... 8 bliddy weeks of itimage. I'm sure I should be doing more flexing, icing, massaging, etc but I struggle to remember to do that kind of thing during the course of my manic family routine. I did ice it and use inbruprofen when it was at its worst ... but after that stage I just made sure I didn't run on it.  I may still find that it's too early to return ... but the only way I'll know is to start running again genbtly (and no more 5K races against my boy!image).

    Khanivore ... yes, the secret is to do the hard stuff when the HR is already reasonably high but before you're too knackered. So the warm up should gradually build up in intensity so that your relatively short time going hell-for-leather can get the HR the rest of the way up to max. Good luck. image image

  • Just thought I would say   I hate running in the heat!

  • Peeps, am halfway though my house move (well 20%) but just popped in to say my shoulder is a lot better today thanks and since Khan has been going through a hard time with the 70% I tried a 5 miler without going over 70% of HRR and failed image

    I didn't walk (1st mistook) and just tried to slow down, the splits were 54% 70%, 72%, 72% & 72% (avg HRR was 68%), average pace was 12:12mm but progessively went from 11:15mm to 13:13mm so am guessing I have no stamina (yet). Am going to set myself a goal to run at the same avg pace and sub 71% at all times. Its the flattest 5 miles run close to home (still a 2 mile drive) and just 300ft.

  • Spen, you said it. Waited all winter for it, but when it arrives I want it gone! 80% run Sunday in 95% humidity (I looked like I had just gotten out of the pool when I walked through the door after). 7:12 m/m @ 78% average...felt great until the last two miles...then the heat literally reached out and got me. Kept pace and, strangely enough, HR, but was wasted after.

    Dr. Dan, great news. I'll remain cautiously optimistic for your reboot. I had some scary heal pain after my 80% run (came on that night)...ice and stretching took care of it and the PT lady says I'm probably fine, but was thinking of your news and feeling very small and vulnerable. Rest today and will try it cautiously tomorrow.

    Brian, nice week of training (sub-70% average = superhero fitness to me). Nice discipline.

  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭

    Andi that's pretty CLOSE man - I would be very happy with 72% lol. 

  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭
    spen71 wrote (see)

    Just thought I would say   I hate running in the heat!

    +1!  Must remember to take water with me on my next run. Today wasn't nice. Only 9 miles but I was so thirsty image

    Dr. Dan
    : great to have you back. Hope the foot is sorted.

    Khani: an alternative to a max. HR test on your own could be hard parkrun (or any other shortish race, maybe even a 10k where you go hell for leather at the end). Ever thought about doing one of those? I find it nigh on impossible to get to max. HR on my own but a competitive situation will push me just that leeetle bit further. Just a thought ...

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    image I've never maxed out in a 5K (never mind a 10K) .... the intensity it too much too soon, so you're too fatigued and/or full of lactic acid by the time the end comes. It might work for me at a parkrun if I ramped up the effort from MPimage to HMPimage to 10KPimage to 5KPimage to hell-for-leather-Pimage.

    No run for me today ... foot is okay but being sensible. 15.4 hilly bike miles this morning due to an extended commute route (out into the sunny countryside) with another 5 miles still to come to get home.

  • Dr Dan - my road to recovery will probably start with the bike (easier on the spine!!).

    Are you doing the same intensity that you do whilst HADDing? e.g. 70% - 75%? Does that work? I know using different muscle groups - just thought it would be a good way to start return to fitness before jiggling the old back about.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    BeDe, I tend to just ride and not worry about HR ... I'm more concerned about staying alive in Leeds rush-hour trafficimage. I don't avoid hills (in fact I often go over the biggest hill in the area) and sometimes I make use of a nice empty bus lane to push hard. I'm rubbish though ... would much rather run!

  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭

    9 miles at 132 bpm today which is 71% of my 'to be validated' max hr. Pace was a blistering 13:45 min/mile!

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