HADD training plan



  • Hi all weather is fab, but don't it affect the HR!

    well Welsh 1000m was great, perfect weather ( overcast ) with a chilly wind on the Mountains but not too hot in the valleys.

    Had a pb of 1hour and 53 mins which gave me 2nd place in a time of 6 hours and 4 mins, only 23 mins behind the winner, and 34 mins  in front of the 3rd placed man.

    Legs are shot to pieces, cant go upstairs without some oohs and aahs yet.

    I honestly put it down to HADDing  For me I am convinced its the way to train, and I cant wait to start training for the Loch Ness mara next month.





  • Roy, awesome PR (BTW that's an incredibly understated statement!!image)!!!! You might be the absolute poster boy for HADDing.

    Today was a bit of a fest(hadd)ivus miracle for my training (further proof of the plan). Did an easy run of 12 miles in much cooler weather...this run felt effortless from start to finish...see my splits below...overall the pace was brisk (for me) from the start but I didn't need to raise my HR much to keep it or increase over the last miles. Overall averages: 8:02 m/m HR 144 (72%). For comparison, I ran an ~ 8 pace in the 1 marathon I have done. This is where all those 80% runs are starting to pay off.




    Last, I've switched over to the P&D. I wanted to thank all you guys and gal for the great comments/suggestions. I will follow their plan but as I feel insert some longer 80% stuff to what they suggest or perhaps just add it in place of a MLR in certain weeks...what I can appreciate is that this plan will force me to truly recover between hard workouts...and I need the regulator...also makes it so mentally relaxing to just follow some instructions and not have to decide each day what I'll be doing.

  • Roy, Great stuff on the podium. Hope you recover quickly.

    VT, Love it when a plan comes together. Good luck with the P&D stuff.

    80% run for me at lunch, in what looks like perfect conditions. No excuses!

  • Roy, congratulations!  That's an amazing PB!  Well done image

    VTrunner - your splits are fantastic.  I don't think I could 7.xx anything, especially not at the end of a run!  Enjoy your marathon training and hope it all goes well!

  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    Congrats Roy! Brilliant PB in a tough race image.

    Great run VT! My stats would look the other way round ... i. e. splits getting slower and slower with each passing mile image  Enjoy P&D. I'm starting on July 1 using their 12 week plan up to 55 miles for a half marathon. Not doing an autumn mara this year.

    I fancied something different today and did a few hill reps. I've started doing some strength exercises and drills too. Normaly they scare me but my legs really need more power in them, especially if I want to go sub 3:15 at Boston next spring.

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    RR nice improvementimage

    DD fingers crossed for the continued recovery - you too BeDe

    Andi how's the shoulder?

    VT awesome splits - good luck with the P&D plan

    Roy super pb!!

    Chick nice training - good target, tooimage

    Brian hope it went well - too hot out there for me...

    Khani keep at itimage

    I did my weekly sub-LT this morning, but suffered a bit in the heat...just clung on to 8.00mm but had to slow down at the end as the HR spiked on a hill then refused to go down again.  So a fail on 2 counts, but it's all miles in the bank...

    Got to 52 miles last week, and have 57m planned this week. image

  • Roy - fantastic, recover well and consider a massage

    VT - my hero (super stats - luv em) keepe em coming when you start P&D

    I know it ain't HADDing but I managed my first bike ride since the accident last night - kept it at 70% and only did 20 mins (sounds stupid but it's a start).

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Roy! imageimage

    VT - super stats! Haddtastic!image

    BeDe - 70% on the bike should be very easy .... you'll have a lower HRmax on the bike, so it doesn't equate well with running. I did once worked to a HR training scheme on the bike based on Chris Carmichael's very un-Hadd like high intensity approach. I was using a turbo-trainerimage ...it hurtimage ... and I soon gave upimage.

    Chick - hill reps. Ouch.image

    Teknic - nice mileage.image

    Brian - hope the 80% went well ... perfect weather today in Leeds for running. I almost headed to the canal at lunchtime but decided that laps of Hyde Park were safer (as I could can it if the foot played up).

    So, just 5.5M at 8:40/m for me ... foot stiff but no pain. Surprisngly, the run was okay and not nearly as bad as I expected - certainly better than Monday's. Hopefully the (basic) fitness will return sooner rather than later.

  • Hi Dr. Dan, nice to hear you got another one in without a blow up. My heel is still playing up a bit...was sore this morning but as soon as I ice it calms right down...running also smooths things out. Did 8M today easy with 8 x 100 striders. Man were they fun! Just like warming up for the 400 m in track meets. Felt great to F***ing sprint! If only I could still run quarters at sub50 times w/out every muscle and their associated connective tissues collectively rippingimage. Oh well, running long isn't so bad eitherimage. What was the advert...chicks dig the long ball...or perhaps long haul?image

  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    Mwaaaah - finally a good run to report image

    'twas such a beautiful day that I thought it's time for some 80% running. Very happy to get 8:06 av. pace @ 79% av. HR image. OK, it's still miles away from were I was pre-marathon but it's progress. And I finally started to feel strong and in control again.

    Best run since the marathon.

    Did 12 miles in total, 10 of those @ sub LT.

    Hope the feet behave, Dr. Dan & VT!

  • Teknik, good miles in the bank.

    Bede, Not stupid at all. Needs must.

    DrDan, good to hear you are easing back in. Healing vibes for the foot. The towpath was perfect yesterday - 15', sunny, cooling gentle breeze.

    VT, Careful with the foot.

    Chickadee, lovely when that happens. Onward and upward....

    As I said the conditions on the canal were perfect yesterday, and I so soooo enjoyed the 80%. Was running with a mate I don't see that often so set off steady and didn't hit 80% till 2miles into the run. We chatted most of the way out, and probably 1/2 the way back. As a result, my stats came out as

    Out 35:00 4.9 7:09 144 (78.3%) Back 35:00 4.9 7:09 149 (80.9%)

    Was a gentle Easterly breeze which was behind me on the way out.

    So last week I did 7:14 for 80.2%, this week I improved to 7:09 for 79.6%.

    Getting thereimage

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Chick & Brian ... great 80 percenting!image

  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    Nice work, Brian image  I always need a 2 mile warm up before I can raise my HR to 80. But then I usually run at 4:30am, straight out of bed. Body needs to wake up image

  • Chick, the main difference I felt this week to last week was the legs remained strong throughout. Last week they were shot with ~2 miles to go. I felt like I could have gone further by quite a way (or faster). Last week was my first 60mile week in 4 months. Will try and maintain 60s whilst in my 6 week base phase.

    Good on you for stating your Boston target publicly. Is 3:15 champs qualifying for you lesser spotteds?

  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    Exactly how I felt today - strong image  That strength was missing from every single run since the marathon. Soooo happy it's back! All previous runs felt like I was holding on to something I wasn't quite capable of. Out of control and it was HARD. Legs hurt too and I was knackered for the rest of the day. Today I feel like I could do this all over again and I'm not one bit tired. Funny business, this running lark.

    3:15 is just a random number that I'd like to crack. I never thought of myself as particularly talented or fast. When I started, sub 4 seemed a long way away. Then sub 3:45. Now I've cracked 3:25 so 3:15 is next in line. Curious to find out my limit. Age is a factor though. At some point it'll catch me out, I'm aware of that.

    That'll be the time to do ultras image Endurance is something I have lots of. It's speed that I have to work hard at.

  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭

    Chickadeee - you have just laid out the path i want to follow image Did my first marathon with sub-4 in mind. However, I did it in 4:05:54 so missed that target. I was close enough though that I started thinking about 3:45 and 3:30. If i am honest though, and I have no idea if I can achieve it, I would love to eventually get to 3:15 so that i can get a london good for age place image

    After that, like you, I think ultra's will beckon! Such a very very long way to go for me on this journey. I'm just one year in to it.

  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    Believe in yourself Khani, you'll get there. I did my first marathon in 4:07:30 so you beat me there already image  I bet you are also younger image and have time on your side.

    My marathons went 4:07:30, 3:54:59, (3:59 and 4:01 - Furman plan - did not work for me) 3:38:38, (3:39:55 - comeback after 6 months off), 3:29:15 and 3:24:36.

  • Brian - I like the "We chatted most of the way out, and probably 1/2 the way back" - and all at 80% folks image - and with a time improvement!! Music to our ears Brian.

    Khani - one year into it - at least your sticking with it. Lots of peops drop off as they hav'n't got the patience. Looking forward to your stats in another 2 months - they will be better for sure if your still HADDing. Don't forget your HR max test - let us know (or did I miss it?).

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    Good to see BeDe and Dr Dan on the comeback trail

    VT - that was some serious pace you had back then !!!

    Chick, Brian, Tek - good work knocking out sub-LT's image

    Khani - just had a re-read of a pm i sent to Brian in April '12 (about a month after i started HADD) asking if in his opinion i could do 4:30 at Brighton '13. Well, i stuck with HADD and ended up doing 3:16. You'll be amazed at the improvement you can make.


    Decided on a sub-LT myself this morning 2.6M w/u , 6.5M sub-LT, 0.9M c/d. 10 miles in bang on 75mins with the sub-LT @ 7:14 @ 81% av







  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭

    BeDe my max hr is 184 based on tests and logs but i really do need to retest. I am not a big fan of that anaerobic feeling though so have been avoiding it image

    Mace hells BELLS! Wow - what a fantastic time. I hope I can follow in your footsteps. 

    Chickadeee I don't think time is really on my side image I'm 41!

    Can't wait to get home from work and plod my 9 miles for today. Yesterday was an enforced rest day - i'm glad i did it though as i had a couple of aches that have now disappeared. 

  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    wow Mace - I'd like to see numbers like that one day image

    Khani: that's still 4 years younger than me image. I wish I'd known HADD when I started marathon training ...

  • I go out for a run and there's another half page of posts!

    Like I have said many times before - don't get hung up on the pace/distance, those numbers will improve in the background. Think more weeks and time/HR.

    And what's all this talk about age. It's only a number my (current, I WILL beat it at Amsterdam in October) marathon pb was set in 2009 at age 47. My current HM pb was set in 2012 at the age of 51. So stop this silly ageist prattleimage

    Mace, those are cracking numbers for the 80% run!

  • 75% HR 8 miles easy last night @ 9.35 average pace really happy with that image

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    BeDe well done on the biking

    DD glad the run went ok

    VT sub50 400image...was that with or without hurdles?image

    Chick super subLT - good pace for 79%image

    Brian that's a good improvement in only a week

    Khani when I started Hadd last June my mara time (and half) was similar to yours. In June 2012 I averaged 10:21mm at 73% av.  By October it was down to 8:59 at 73% av, and I smashed my sub-4 target.  Then followed 2 months of "shit phase" (Chickimage) with my HR elevated post-mara, then by April this year I was down to 8:34 at 73% av.  I'm 47 btw...

    mace awesome pace in the subLT todayimage

    Fast Splits nice running

    8.8m sub70% for me this morning.  Legs feel a little heavy after yesterday's hard run.


  • Well, everyone is either on the comeback trail or firmly ripping the trail up! Well done, everyone. BeDe, way to take the first step back. And aweseome sub-LT runs Chick, Brian, and Tekimage! Tek, those are most definitely miles in the bank. I think the ones we struggle with (but manage to gut through to the end) are the best for fitness gains (to be delivered in the not too distant future) and for the end of the marathon itself.

    Chick, that is a pretty incredible progression. Before you started training for a marthathon, did you do much running? Everything I read mentions how it takes literally years to fully train ourselves for our maximum aerobic fitness. I think your progression shows that (and suggests the best it yet to come). Same with you Mace...I'm so impressed with that 3:15 for your first race.image I think the message is that all of us can use this type of training to really see our potential.

  • Today was a recovery 5M run. I went to the PT again. Turns out I have a fairly significant imbalance going on in my hips which translates to my legs. Basically, my right thigh/calf muscles are literally much bigger than the right. Also, my glutes are really weak and have different weaknesses in the inner thigh, hammy, and glute depending on the side of the body. So we are working to balance the hips and strengthen the areas in need. I'm fully committing to this (a series of core type exercises) so we'll see how it goes. I'm kind of excited as I have a feeling this is going to dramatically impact my running (and hopefully reduce my constant injury vulnerability). My heel played up a bit yesterday but is totally good today. We are keeping an eye on it (hopefully this other work will allow the heel to resolve).


    Also, the quarter mile speeds were minus the hurdlesimage. But, as a former sprinter, running those strides yesterday made me literally feel 18 again (if only for a brief moment in time!). Speed may kill in our current running lives, but man is it funimage

  • Too much data in here...sorry Mace, killer Sub-LT for you as well!!

  • Some great running going on here.


    Just noticed you got 3:25 Chick.     What maxHR do you start your marathons at?  80%?  (or anyone else)

  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭

    Teknik that's INSPIRING! Thanks image

    Yesterday I did a conference call during my 9 mile plod. I was running so slow that I was able to talk plenty during the call and no one knew i was running. It was a proper lol moment! image

  • spen, my tried and tested method for marathons is start at 83%, progress to 85% by 6M, aiming to hit 87% at h/way. Ensure you don't hit 90% till your inside the last 10k.

    Will be interesting to see how I go this lunchtime, I have a raging hangoverimage

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