HADD training plan

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  • Laureate - well done on your first Hadd run.  

    Now have you actually entered Rome marathon?   - that's the next stage of your marathon trainingimage

    The Rat - brilliant, I know the feeling that you describe, when that long run becomes really enjoyable and you're not knackered for the rest of the dayimage

    Have you tried wearing your HRM on your back?   I read somewhere that was advisable for those that found the normal way uncomfortable.

  • The Rat, Glad you de-lurked. Really good to get positive feedback, and encouraging to the others using Hadd for the first time. You are in a good place at the moment, suck it up. Keep up the good work, and keep us postedimage Love it when a plan comes together.
  • Shades, not only have I paid my money for the Rome Marathon but, for good measure, we are signed up for the Roma Ostia Half Marathon (supposedly, Italy's most popular...http://www.romaostia.it/?lang=en/) on 26 Feb.  I hope that will give me a good idea of what I can expect in the FM, 3 week's later... image  Any advice on what sort of pace I should attempt to run it at, given its proximity to the final goal?

    Rat,  As Brian says, thanks for posting - it is good to hear from those who are that bit further into the programme about the benefits to be had from sticking with it.  image

  • Laureate, If I were you I would run the half at slower than MP. Possibly setting off easy, and making it progressive. By then you will have some idea of HRmar.

    So my plan would be to run:

    4M easy, 4M steady, 5M at HRmar (86-88%).

    The other alternative would be to "practice" the first half of your marathon. ie. Run it at your planned HR as per the first half of the marathon. For me this would be starting at HRmar - 10 (about 83%), and then letting it drift gradually up to HRmar - 5 (85-86%) at 6miles, and then finishing at HRmar (87-88%). But this may impact on your marathon as it is only 3 weeks before. Guess it will depend on your ability to recover.

    I know I want to average 164-165 in the marathon, so I set off at 155, and aim to hit 165 at h/w. Hit 170 at 20, and then if the legs are in reasonable shape, 175 with about 5k to go. Throw it all on to the fire for the last 3 miles. My max is 187ish.

      

  • ...And now the bad news!!!

    Am not sure any training schedule really prepares you for the day after the LSR - really stiff today on recovery run - still managed to get my 7.5 miles in though, but not even sure my HR would have hit zone one I was shuffling so slowly!!!!

  • Rat, suck it up.....

  • Brian, once again, excellent advice: I  really appreciate it.  Subscribing to this site is just like having your own personal trainer! image

    Traditionally, my ability to recover is pretty good, but then I haven't really ventured into these sorts of distances before.  So, I might well go for your 4/4/5 plan - after all, the full marathon is the goal and it would be a shame to go off half-cocked. 

    I have printed off your post and added it to my growing portfolio of guidance on how to train over the next 4 months - I -particularly look forward digging it out in March next year and reminding myself about 'throwing it all on the for the last 3 miles!'.

    Ciao 

  • The good thing about the Fred is the differing opinions, the wide spectrum of knowledge and best of all the personal experiences. You can cherry-pick the best snippets of advice, as well as adding your own tweaks. But the best advice would be to listen to your body, and don't become a slave to the schedule. If you are feeling unable to stick to your plans, make sure you prioritise your sessions. Number 1 Priority should be the Long Run. If you are forced to miss sessions, try and ensure that the Long Run remains intact, as it is the most important part of any marathon schedule. This is pretty fundamental advice, and the more experienced marafuners will be turning away and wincing at the string of cliches I've used. But it is certainly worth repeating and will make the marathon much more "enjoyable".
  • Brian - I am still reeling from the suck it up comment !!imageimage

    But - I have to agree with you fully - these threads are great if you are able to use them, and not let them overwhelm you.  My three most important bits of advice would be:

    (a) Ditto Brian above - Listen to your body

    (b) Do not leave your best work on the training track.  So many of us are competitive soles - and the temptation if you did your 8 mile run in 64 mins on monday to try and do it in 62 mins on the weds, then to get it to 60 the next week etc etc - Training faster and faster, and harder and harder only leads to one place - The injury bench. The big change for me came when I eventually (after a couple of injury ravaged campaigns) realised the aim of most training sessions should not be to run at 110%, instead do it at 70-80% so that you can adequately recover for the next one.  Please note I am not talking abour heart rate!!!!

    (c) Run slower

  • HADD(-inspired) recovery plan, day 1!

    Dusted off the Garmin and set out aiming for 135-140bpm, and did pretty well generally, straying to a max of 144 on a slight uphill.  Finished the run feeling like I could go round again, which I guess is half the idea, but a very satisfying feeling considering I've run about 20 miles all year.  5.02miles, 7:59/m, aveHR 136 = 68% max.

    Too early to say how the hip feels about it so I'm not getting too excited but hopefully I'm on the right track now.

  • Phil, Whheeeeeaaaeeeyyyyy! Off and running...... Hope you have little or no reaction.

    Rat, Absolutely agree with your points. Point b) is what Hadd is all about.

  • Laureate - as you recover well I would race the half marathon, but not a decision to make now.   You need to see how you are nearer the time.

    PhilPub - great news, hope the hip is OK.

  • Did a Max HR at lunch today. OMG it hurt image. A couple of 800m with 2min recovery after a 2 mile warmup and a 1.5 mile warm down/crawl back to the changing rooms. Max showed at 178bpm, which is 2 down from where I thought it was but at least I know a number based on a good reading and not from a poor connection/guess work and recalculated 70% is now 138bpm.

    One thing is for sure though, I won't be rushing to do another one. Did I mention that it hurt?

  • Hi All,

    Great run today (Hadd #2...):

    - 75 mins (which felt like a stroll around the shops)

    - 6.47 miles

    - 131bpm (fractionally over 70%)

    - 11:36 min/mi (down a minute on Hadd #1...)

    ...what a difference a day makes - must have been the farewell pizza party (with mineral water image) that I went to at lunch time!

    I approve of this 'run slower' lark: for the sake of taking 25% longer over the same distance that I did at pace on Monday (in my pre-HADD days.. ahem) , I feel like I have not been out and run it at all image

    Shades - thanks for the comment re racing the HM; I will indeed see how I feel at the time.  Much will depend on how well I cope with the LSRs when I start piling on the miles.  I suspect I'll feel like the Rat!

    Anyway, enough for now.  I promise not to bore you all with my results every day, but just felt that today was notable enough to deserve a mention. 

    Ciao Ragazzi!

  • SRM - well thankfully it's done now, so no need to repeat the test.    If you didn't throw up at the end you can add on a couple of beats to round it up to 180.

    Laureate - glad you're loving the Hadd training!

  • imageProgress report ;

    My last 2 runs, yesterday  was 70 mins with an average heart rate of 139 , which equated to 1min and 10 secs quicker per mile than the same run last week, and that was at an average heart rate of 147 .

    And my second run today was 45 mins with an average heart rate of 140 with the same minute per mile time as above , and on the same route 2 weeks ago that  was at an average heart rate of 150 .

    imageAlmost into my 5th week of hadd training and more than happy with the progression i am making.

    Just a quick question guys , i notice in the hadd report that joe ran at different heart rates but all at aerobic pace is this something that i can do ? I do 2 long runs a week at a low heart rate could i introduce some slightly quicker heart rate runs , but staying aerobic ? but i wouldnt be starting them until after xmas .

    imagepatience seems to be the key.image

  • Shades - No vomitting, just a chest that felt as though Alien was about to punch its way out. What I appreciate most from the run itself was that I now know what 178-180bpm feels like and when the HRM is giving similar numbers in the future I can now shrug it off. In the past it's been "I don't think I'm working at that level" but the little voice inside urges a bit of caution.

    Good to see everyone doing well.

  • Well I think I'm moving forward (actually, the pace is so slow I'm practically going backwards!!) I'm trying to keep it more constant and have done 2 more walk/runs. The running is slower but for much longer. I presume this is the way to go but I seriously hope I can jog at some point. I'm happy for now though. Somewhat embarrassing if someone I know sees me though, pretending this lollop is turning a walking pace to "running"
    Lets see what next week brings.
    Always interesting to hear how everyone else is getting on.
  • Curt, After 6 weeks, and feeling comfortable with the current regime, you can then move 2 of the runs up to ~80% (Joe's 160). If you read the document these start of as straight 75min runs.
  • Sneglen, Stick at it! Incidentally what are the HR figures you are using, and how did you arrive at them?
  • Cheers Brian I will continue until Xmas then introduce the 2 160HR runs and a long run on Sundays ,
  • curt - great progress.  I'll start doing 2 ILTHR runs a week once I get to 10 miles @ 70%MHR with no cardiac drift

    sneglen - well done, be patient

  • Oh yes, cardiac drift.  I should probably set up my Garmin to take mile splits so that I can keep an eye on this as the runs get longer.

    Muscles are funny things aren't they.  There's me thinking that all the cycling will make my quads proportionally stronger, yet that's precisely where the DOMS has struck following yesterday's return to running.  (But in a pleasantly achy, must-be-doing-me-good sort of way.)  I guess they're put under different stress when running though.  Big long bike ride tomorrow, next run Sunday.

    [edit] ...today being a "rest day" - just the 8 miles walking round trip to work and back!  image

  • Brian Max heart rate taken as 190 off a 5K earlier in the year so working at a rate of 142. I think when I used to run it was probably at an average of about 155/158 hence I now appear to be doing little more than a walk. Have also not run for 11 weeeks and very sparodically since April, and I am not a fast runner anyway.

    I shall continue to be patient. I'm just so enjoying being out there again.

  • Ok Sneglen, thats great. Keep us informed, cos it seems that you have the biggest scope for improvement. No pressure!
  • OK folks, 7 days into the HADD plan and thought you might like an update... 

    Having absolutely no problems with distance - clocked just under 30m for the week on the back of 5 runs of 45, 75, 50, 100(LSR) and 50 minutes respectively.  Pace no problems either - feels much more comfortable even after a week.  Indeed, on day 1 of week 2, I have just completed an excellent 60 minutes in glorious Naples sunshine at an average of 135bpm covering just shy of 6 miles: at something like 10:30mins/mi, that is 2 min/mi faster than last week.  I do not believe this is simply down to a hike in fitness over the course of the week - rather, I suspect it is down to two things: First, having gone back and read the original HADD thread at http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=42240&page=0 I have decided not to become a slave to my HRM (it is a right royal pain checking it every 20 seconds...) and have settled at a pace 5bpm faster than my 'calculated' 70% pace which I find more productive without inducing more stress (I'm working on the yardstick from the original thread that the top end of low aerobic pace is where you have to open your mouth to breath, whilst the low end of the lactate zone begins when you can hear your breathing...), effectively I am checking my HRM only when my body tells me I ought to.  Secondly, I reckon I have become more mechanically efficient at the lower pace - I certainly spent a great deal of time on the first few runs adjusting my cadence and stride length trying to get into a steady efficient rythm. 

    Oh, and by the way, the 1hr 40min LSR on Sunday was really good... though I forgot to charge my iPod the night before and had to spend the whole time mentally twiddling my thumbs!  (Won't make that mistake again.)  I settled on 100 mins as opposed to 90 because it fits a nice circuit from home which takes in the local lake.  I plan to do that every week for the first 6 weeks, as per Brian's advice.  Thereafter, I plan to run the LSR mileages given in the 'Higdon Intermediate II' Plan (courtesy of PhilPub) as I also up the ante slightly by incorporating Brian's two 80% runs into my weekly mileage. 

    The bottom line is that thanks to some great advice from fellow 'HADDers', I am really enjoying my running and find myself looking forward to it as soon as the alarm goes off (how sad is that)!

    Ciao Raggazzi!

  • L33 - Great update - good to hear you are enjoying things - keep on going...!!
  • Laureate, nice weekly report. Glad your enjoying the sunshine, I'm not envious at all image

    I (and a few others too) found that the Hadd stuff is really novel at first, and does tend to bring back any enthusiasm about getting out. I think the attraction is the relaxed, easy paced almost therapeutic atmosphere of the 70% zone. Also, just running for time and hr, rather than the relentless toil for miles and pace, is rather refreshing. Enjoy the first 6 weeks. 

    On a personal note, I had to rollover to the side to get out of bed this morning. My lower abs are "traumatised" (as are my shoulders). Following my 4th week, and 7th and 8th gym session, I am wrecked! Hope all this core work is worth it!!!!!

  • Laureate - nice report, nice plan!  I'm four runs away from a sunny climate run myself - will definitely be taking my running shoes to Lanzarote for the "work Christmas do" (long weekend) on Friday week!  image

    Brian - much like the running I suppose... keep with the core work, it'll be worth it.  My core strength is better than ever at the moment, without doubt.  I've just resumed squats and lunges in the gym this week too, which was one of the last things my surgeon told be to be cautious about w.r.t. the hip, but all seems OK on that front at the moment.

    Just the two runs for me so far, 5 and 7 miles @ 67 - 68% max HR, so all very pleasant and easy, but happy to see pace around 8m/m (average 8:05 over the two runs) so the aerobic engine is ticking over nicely.  I'm now settling into a schedule of runs in addition to the gym/cycling routine, 3x/wk building to 5x/wk over the next few weeks, so by mid January I should be back up to the target area of ~50mpw before I start adding some faster pace running.

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