HADD training plan



  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Afternoon all.  image

    DD and Andi take careimage

    Starting to feel like I'm getting back into the groove here.  Last week I managed to get the mileage up to 57m, av.HR 71%, av. pace 8:49 (1 x subLT, 1 x 200/200 fartlek, the rest all easy)....63m planned this week.

  • The hr will increase quicker than normal in warmer weather owing to heat dissipation. 


    This is the heart working harder to maintain a constant body temperature. Think of it as having to turn up the air conditioning. Somebody has to pay. 



    It is a similar situation to treadmill running. 



    Week 2 of my 6week base phase - 60.5 miles 8.22 hours @ 70.2%

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Teknic & Brian ... nice 70% mileage!image

  • Not as bad as you guys for forgetting things but did jump in the shower today with my calf support thing on todayimage

    Brian, your right about the heat and HR though means we should all be flying in the Winterimage

    Well done to all for some great figures! I've decided to (almost) ignore my Mara Plan and stick with 70% runs with the odd 80% thrown in and increase my (rather poor) weekly mileage.

    4.25 miles today averaging 68%HRR and 11:18 min miles (2 secs/mile faster than Mara Pace).

    Thanks for the tips about stretching - I rarely do it but did plenty today and for the first time I can remember since my back op could actually touch my toes whilst sitting on the floor!

    Oh, does everybody include their 'warm up' distance in their stats? I normally hit 70%HRR at the 1 mile point and 50-55% HRR so that sort of lowers my runs avg.

  • Dr. Dan, nice restraint! I too listened to the little voice. After Friday's run, I abandoned Saturday's 5M recovery and Sunday's 16 M (w/8 at 80%). Today was off anyway. Just did strength training and let my heel healimage. My gut said that the Sunday run would have blown my heel up. Anyway, got all kinds of weird aches/pains in my legs and feet yesterday/today (amazing what our bodies say to us when we actually walk away from the running for more than a day), but the good news is the heel feels a lot better. PT today and they worked it loose. Tomorrow I'm back on the plan. Hopefully all will be well.

    Random topic: I'm tempted to adopt a racing shoe for the marathon, but am not sure whether this will spell doom for me. I use Kayano18s right now (about 11.6 oz). If I went to the DS trainer, it would save me several ounces (they are 9.1 oz). The safe play would be to leave well enough alone. But I wonder how much time I could shave off if I were to build up to being able to run in the trainers. I don't think I would want to go any more minimal though. Thoughts? 

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    image I'm a fan of "minimal" but probably worth building it in gradually?

    Day off today (running - I did bike to work) ... plan is to go a little longer tomorrow (7M).

  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭

    VTRunner I use Kayano 19's. I wanted to try a 4mm heel drop shoe to encourage a mid foot strike but I didn't want minimal shoes. I bought the Saucony Mirage, which like the Kayano's are a support shoe. I was AMAZED at how light they are!

  • Andi, my first few marathons were in the spring. When I trained for an autumn mara, I really struggled to hit the times I hit in the winter. My stats always include the whole of the run, warm-up and cool-down. 

    Vt, I don't think the time saving merits the risk of minimalist shoes. But its down to personal preference. 

    Rest day today. I race Otley 10 miler tomorrow evening. Will be a low mileage week as i am attending a funeral on Thursday. 

  • Maybe I could consider the shoe switch sometime next fall after recovery from the marathon but during the build up back into base training. Raining cats and dogs here today...looking for a window to get out without getting soaked...

  • VT, I have a pair of Vibram FF Bikilas but only worn them a few times and built up (slowly) to 1.5 miles. My aim was to do my 3 mile recovery runs in them eventually and maybe carry on building to longer distances - I do prefer inclines to declines in them as they 'force' fore/midfoot striking.

    Brian, I know what you mean about how the weather affects times (well HR?) during the Seasons. I went out in the rain today for a 4 mile easy run and felt good so made it 6 miles. Not fast but 10 secs/mile faster than my (planned) Marathon Pace and 65% HRR so quite pleased with that image As always splits were all over the place (an undulating 510 foot incline/decline).

  • It was warm and humid this evening.   So 10 bpm higher than normal.   Just got to reduce the pace.

  • 11M @ 72% in the rain...a thoroughly soaking run. Everything felt great though. 13M on schedule for tomorrow.

  • spen, finally, I think I'm starting to understand this HR lark and (finally) over the personal stigma I give myself for being so slow - speed can waitimage

    VT, am hopefully on course for my first 30+ mile week then I see your schedule!

    Quick question, today it took me 2 miles to get to 70% of HRR (1 mile is the norm) and was happy with that but, should I go out a little faster to get to 70% sooner? and, (ok, so 2 questions) there are no flat areas here but during a 70% run should I try to run constantly at 70% or is it ok to go over by (say) 5% on hills and easier downhill or best to try to stay as close to 70% throughout and ignore pace totally? 

  • Andi, good question about the hills. I wouldn't worry too much about letting it go up a bit on the hills. On decent hills, it's not uncommon for my HR to go up anywhere from 8-12 bpm during the climb or by the time I reach the top. Personally, I don't like to slow down much on the hills. A bit, but like to keep the pace fairly even. The key is to keep most of each mile near the target. I've read others say they'll walk hills though. As you get more fit, you'll see your HR climb less on hills and it no longer becomes such a worry. As to how long it takes to get up to 70% after starting a run, not sure that it matters. Low HR = good in my book.

  • I tend to use routes without hills at the moment.   Easier to keep the HR in check.  The hill training can wait in my book.   The hills get easier the fitter you get anyway so no point doing them yet.   Im really working on the base as it suits me for the ultras.


    Ive done a lot of reading around the subject.   And it seems its best to run at 11 m/m until your hr comes down.

  • Andi, that shows how far you've come already- 10s faster than mp IS fast, and only at 65%!!!!! Good stuff! Don't worry about the hr taking its time. That is fitness. But it can also mean you are tired. You will find that it's hard to get it up (phnarr phnarr) the day after a race or a hard session. You can allow your hr to increase on the hills as long as the average remains on target. 

  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭
    Brian. wrote (see)

    You will find that it's hard to get it up (phnarr phnarr) the day after a race or a hard session.  


    Hot humid weather is usually a killer but once you get into the HADD mindset it doesn't seem to matter anymore that the pace drops. I just set my Garmin to display HR only and stick with it. It means I do a lot of rather slow running on some days but as long as we train in the right zone we will benefit.

    Many people on other forum threads immerse themselves into speed work right now which is fine as it really works for some. I know for sure it doesn't work for me so I'm quite happily plodding along image

    Easy for me to avoid hills - I live in a very flat area. In fact, there's about 1 decent hill where I train. I try to do some hill reps every now and again though because they really help with leg strength. I keep those reps short enough not to exceed sub LT HR image

    Andi: going faster than MP at 65% is awesome image

    Have decided to bin my planned 15k race on Friday.
    a) because I'm shit at evening running
    b) because I'm even more shit at racing when it's warm
    c) because it's our office away day and there's free beer. So, I much rather get pissed image

  • Chickadee - good plan!! image  Never refuse free beer (unless it's nasty lager!).

    All this talk of hills - they're the bane of my life just now!  I'm not having a good week Hadding.  My runs start out fine then miles 3-4ish are hilly and my HR rockets.  I then spend the first 1.5miles of the return route trying to get it back under control which means the second half of my runs are 30-40s per mile slower than the first.  

    I'm wondering if I'm in for a cold or if my iron levels are dipping again. Just when I was starting to do well!!  It's very frustrating.  I'm going to increase my iron supplement so hopefully things will settle back down.

    Soggy 6miles for me this morning - ended up with a 10.21 average so definitely worse than before.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Andi McGill 2 wrote (see)

    VT, I have a pair of Vibram FF Bikilas but only worn them a few times and built up (slowly) to 1.5 miles. My aim was to do my 3 mile recovery runs in them eventually and maybe carry on building to longer distances - I do prefer inclines to declines in them as they 'force' fore/midfoot striking.

    I ran in VFFs for 6 months ... in fact a notched up a few PBs during that period (since bettered). They helped me with sorting out my heel-striking and over-striding ... but too many "ouch" moments when I stood on stones. Nice run by the way.image

    Good soggy running from VT (rain can be fun once yoiu're in it) ... hope the 13M goes well.

    Enjoy the beer Chick ... image

    Biked to work ... and have 7M (easy) planned on the canal today.

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Hi all

    A "work" day for me - 1m w/up then 8m sub-LT.  Came out as 8:05mm, so a tad slower than last week, but the HR was much lower and under control - levelled out at around 81% maxHR, so in all, a good session.image


    Have fun with the beer, Chick, and good luck in Otley tonight Brian...

  • Chick, have one for me.

    Tek, ta. Had a look back, done it 5 times (4x66.xx and 1x65.xx). But the lsst time I ran it was 2003! They've changed the start so I'm told, so will be interesting what happens. 

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Nice collection of times at Otley Brian ... it's not exactly flat. Never done it myself, despite it being close to home.

    Sounds like another good sub-LT session Teknic!image

    7M on the canal for me ... sub-70% maxHR and 9:18/m. I'll cycle tomorrow and then repeat today's bike/run routine on Friday. All being well, next week I'll move up to 5 runs.

  • Hospital tomorrow - see what doc says. I can still feel an ache in the back so I don't think I'll be back to running for a few weeks. Still cycling - nothing major, waiting for outcome of tomorrow.

  • DrDan/BeDe, good progress being made. BeDe, fingers crossed the doc gives you good news.

    Tek, solid LT run. Take the positives, it's not always gonna be faster.

  • Txs for all the help/advice re hills and HR peeps - much appreciated though took a day off today as felt tired.

    Chick, re your reasons for not running, not sure I believe a) or b) but c) sounds like a very good reasonimage

    RR, hope your not coming down with anything 

    DrDan, I have the Bikilas with a little more sole than other FF's and supposed to be for road running but know what you mean about stones and doubt I'll be going off road with them.

    BeDe, good luck for tomorrow and am amazed your cycling already!

  • Morning all.

    Disappointed to go 67.11 at Otley. Had to walk twice with a stitch. But a good blow out anyway. Back to hadding now for 3 more weeks.


  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    Brian: Ouch, stitch really sucks - still a great time with a run/walk strategy image

    I assure you, all 3 reasons are valid, but c) is obviously the clincher here image

    Chickened out of my sub LT this morning - it was pouring and the CNBA fairy crept under the duvet... TBH, I felt I needed the extra zzz image

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    VT good 11 miler yesterday

    Spen good plan, especially if you're looking at ultras

    DD nice running along the canalimage

    BeDe hope things went ok at the hospital

    Andi hope you enjoyed the day's rest

    RR I have the same problem - if I join the club run, it's basically 2.5m downhill (nice pace, low HR) then 2.5m uphill (HR spikes, then won't go down once we're back on the flat).  Last time around I avoided the club runs and stayed on the flat, nursing my HR/pace stats, whereas this time I've decided to ignore the pace stats and enjoy the club runs...and the hillsimage

    Brian sorry to hear you got a stitch - as Chick says, that's still a great time

    Chick sensible decision - hope you get it done later in the week.image


    7.6m with a 75%max lid for me this morning, then 3m of 200/200 fartlek. image

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Never mind Brian ... I'm sure a 67 min hilly 10M didn't do you much harm though!image

    Chick ... lazyimage. image

    Teknik ... nice and aerobic ... well until your started fartleking.image

    Ditched the bike commute today when I saw the weather forecast ... actually it's been okay and I'd probably be able to sneak home before getting drowned. However, instead I did 1 mile (4x400m) of front crawl in the pool, so got drowned anyway.


  • chickadeee wrote (see)
     I just set my Garmin to display HR only and stick with it. It means I do a lot of rather slow running on some days but as long as we train in the right zone we will benefit.

    Chick, I was going to thank you for suggesting going out with just the current HR being displayed however, set off today and somehow managed to stop the timer as soon as i started it and it was only at the first mile marker when the alarm didn't go off that I realised what happened - if I had my normal dashboard of loads od data I'd have realised sooner what I'd done. Anyway, elapsed timed for the first mile was around 9:42!! Ignoring the missed mile Garmin tells me I ran 4.5 miles @10:33 pace (43 seconds faster than planned Marathon Pace) and at 69% HRR image If this carries on I may have to rethink my 5 hour time though knowing me I may keep the time and make it a less painful first Marathon.

    Brian, sorry to hear about the stiches. I've managed to run them off most times and stick my fist where it hurts.

    Txs Teknik was a nice rest image Sounds like a great workout todayimage

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