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HADD training plan
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I get psyched up for the subLTs too ... sometimes I even sleep badly the night before. And yeah, those first few miles tell it all - you are either in for a blinder or a brutal slog.
Tek and Dr. Dan: nice sub LTs there
Andi: excellent!
Cheesy: wot BeDe said - it takes a bit of patience, this whole HADD malarkey but it's sure worth it.
VT: that's a huge jump in mileage. If in doubt, rest another day.
Thanks
. It's all moving in the right direction.
- they are good for your leg stength apparently ... they hurt like hell for sure!
Did something very un-HADD today: hill reps
Chick ... ouch, that was a daft idea
. As I understand it, short hill repeats of less than 8 seconds are okay in base phase. They train the fast twitch fibres and build strength ... but do not last long enough to generate lactate and so don't work against base-building. I recall Ratzer (over on Middle Ground thread) used to do them the day before his LSR. I never seem to get around to them ... not sure why ...hmmm
.
Tek ... another good session!
Andi ... good news.
Bike commute and 5.5M easy run today (about 9/m at 70% ish). After yesterday's sub-LT, my legs felt a bit mangled at the start of both the bike and run but they loosened up after a mile or so.
DrDan, The way your foot feels sounds familiar. Looks like you are on the mend. The weather was awful last night, I did pass a cyclist on the drive home and felt sorry for him.
Andi, now your talking my language. That's a cracking sub-70% run.
Tek, I find the weather has a bearing on the sub-lt results. And also what you do the day before. Just recently my rest day has been Sunday, and as a consequence of that, Mondays HR is low. It was extremely low this week and got me excited about todays sub-lt. But, having done 80mins Monday, S&C session and a 70min run on Tuesday, I was stiff and jaded today. (Got my excuses in early). I'm a bit of a sad lad and the results of the sub-lt run does have a bearing on my mood for the next day or so.
Chick, as you say, the hills are a great strength session. I tend to give them a miss unless I'm training for a hilly run, which is probably not good practice.
Sub-lt with a difference today. Was paced by a mate (2:41 marathoner) and he doesn't do HR.
70mins came out as 6:50 pace for HRav 157 (85.3%). The 35mins out was ok at 6:58/83%, but the back section turned out to be progressive and 6:42 pace for a whopping 162 (88%). Legs are now officially toast.
VT, sounds good that your realy motivated for the sub lt's and yoyr results are speaking for themselves
Brian, am glad I'm now speaking the 'correct' language for us HADDers though there may be a few expletives thrown in when I get back o the hills
Cracking run btw and an excellent pace!
Thanks Dr.Dan, I was dreading running to MHR rather than HRR and to quote Teknik it was a 'Holy Cow' step change
Txs Chick, I've tried hill reps a couple of times but since I seem to be either going up or down a hill I don't think reps would really help me? If/when I get my new improved (and much lower) HR running under control I was thinking about doing (say) 6 miles on an undulating route and aiming for 80% uphill 70% downhill on the way out and the reverse on the way back if that makes sense? or, as Dr.Dan suggests would a short burst of sprinting be of more help?
Cheesy, hope your run went ok? a couple of weeks ago Chick told me about running with just the HR% showing on the watch, I do that all the time now (with .5 miles split times flashing up) and I don't worry about a stupidly slow pace but my run averages are improving and making it to the top of most hills (sort of) running all the way (sorry for repeating myself but it works).
2nd outing at my parents and a flatter route, I made the mistook of having a fag 5 minutes before I went out and did find it a little harder but managed 6.2 miles, 10:58mm (2 secs/mile slower than yesterday @ 72% of MAX (4% higher than yesterday) so not quite the 'Holy Cow' run of yesterday but still pretty pleased as it was 40 seconds/mile faster than my June Average.
Well, did my 8 miles, but was so humid round Bewl i seemed to be unable to get my HR down however slow I ran
still, averaged 145 ish instead of sub140 at 12:00mm so not too worried. Heat does that it seems! Friday LSR I'll be trying to sub 135-140 but at Bedgebury again.
I use two programs, ismoothrun for the main pace and tracking, and although it does gove HR zones it doesnt do them often enough for me, I have started using anothe just for HR as I like the triple beeps every 10 seconds or so when I exceed what ever I have told it as limits. I see no reason not to try working only off the HR only and just try to ignore the pace.
Chick - hill reps
, well done
DD nice running and biking - glad the legs are easing up
Brian I know what you mean
. Awesome pace for yesterday's session; rest /easy day today?
Andi nice run - we can't expect improvements every run, but the rolling average is the key. Well done
Cheesy well done in the heat. I agree that working from HR is best - ignore the pace as it's irrelevant at this stage
LSR for me this morning - really happy with the 17.5m, averaged 72%, drift ok and only blipped over 75% in the last mile or two...pace was last October's MP
The heat certainly makes things hard for us runners, Cheesy. I did the same 71% run that I did on Tuesday but pace was 5 secs per mile slower. Tuesday was relatively cool and dry. Today was 20 degrees and 80% humidity.
.
. Strange as it may sound but I found that my legs feel a lot springier and that my stride has improved since I started this. I hope that by doing these regularly they will stop being so painful and killing my legs the way they do right now. Heartbreak Hill beckons 
! I certainly couldn't run 17.5 miles at 72% at last October's MP! In fact, last October's MP is sub LT at the moment 
Brian: Ouch. 88% that must have hurt! I guess I'll join you in the mashed leg category tomorrow. P&D 13 miler with 8 @ MP. I'm nowhere near 83% equalling MP at this stage but I'll do my best. It won't be pretty
Going cycling at the WE, so getting my Sunday run out of the way early.
As for the hills - it's all long term prep for Boston. I must start somewhere. I've done a weekly hill sesh for 5 weeks now. Starting with 30 sec reps working up to yesterday's 90 secs. Won't do longer than that. 90 secs is plenty long when it hurts
Wow, Tek - brilliant LSR
Tek- excellent - thats what we like to read - a pace that was equal to a previous MP but now at or lower than 75%. That's when you know this stuff is working
Tek, nice improvement. Good long run too.
I've had an impromptu rest day today. Things are a little tight and I think my body thanked me for a stretch in the gym. Next week will be week1 of my prep for Amsterdam and will include 35mins@tmp on Monday, and a track session on Thursday.
Cheesy - well done. Keep up the good work, despite the weather.
Tek/Chick ... nice LSRing.
What difference do you get between sub-LT pace and actual MP on the big day?
I did my usual bike commuting and a SSR
... same run as yesterday, 5.5M at 70%, 9/m. Basically I'm trying to make sure I'm recovered for tomorrow's subLT.
edit: xpost Brian. What sort of pace will the tempo be ... and what's planned on the track?
DrDan, tmp is target marathon pace. And will be 6.30s
.
I'm not sure what track sesh to do yet. It will probably something easyish to kick-off with. Maybe a 10k session.
It all sounds hurt-locker to me... enjoy.
Brian, turbo! Way to burn the carbon out of the pipes. Enjoy the hard-earned, thoroughly trashed legs!
Tek, beautiful display of fitness. I was just reading how consistency lets this year's MP be next year's LSR pace. Poster boy.
Chick, I think the hill work is great. I did it weekly prepping for my first marathon and I believe it gave me lots of power. I also like hill repeats cause my FT fibers love to burn up the hill.
After 3 days off (during which I did all the proper Achilles rehab stuff) I went out today and got 8.5 m in without pain or incident. Yesterday I was pain free all day so thought I'd test the waters today. We'll see how it progresses.
Fireworks stateside today.
Chick, how did the 13 go?
Few early beers helped me forget about running.
Think i know the answer to this already but can a HADDing plan accommodate a ParkRun of a weekend?
Have been going to these for the last few months and have really enjoyed taking part but can't picture being able to run these at 70% without someone calling an ambulance! Dont want to throw away any work i have done for the sake of half an hour but just wanted advice from the more seasoned veterans. Would also point out that my 26 minute run isnt quite the blistering pace I assume some of you can manage from the times i have seen!!!
Sub60, the bottom line is if you want to do it and you enjoy doing it then go for it. It will hinder your aerobic improvement yes but it is a trade off. The way I would do it is do the parkrun either at the end of or in the middle of a long run. Then you can atempt to keep the average hr for the whole run in the 75% ball park.
Legs are itchy today following yesterday's rest day.
May give it a try as a finisher for a longer run. Should at least make me a bit slower!
Will you do my sub-LT for me then! Looks like it's going to be a hot one.
I know a few folk who do/have done this ... a good way to clock parkrun appearances (to collect the T-shirt) without frying your legs every week.
DrDan, look on the bright side - you get a sun tan thrown in
doh! obviously drank too much Single Malt and Beer last night as I wrote a long post and it's not here today
No running today as I got out of bed and my (right) big toe is really painful - either gout or I stubbed it in my drunken stuper
Well done to all with your times/mileage, am a bit behind this week what with travelling et al and off to France for 10 days next Tuesday - maybe I can do a run or two round the airports lol.
Thanks for asking about my Dad, they are not letting him home today but maybe the beginning of next week - he seems brighter but only for short spells.
Good luck with the toe and holiday Andi.
Hot hot hot today but at least my Hyde Park sub-LT circuit is mainly shaded. Plan was the same as Tuesday ... 7.55 miles with 6.25 at subLT (6 laps of the park). The stats tell me that I set off too fast, despite feeling stiff and lethargic. 83% is 145 bpm ... struggled to keep it down today in the second half, most probably due to the heat, but I held the pace well. On Tuesday I held the HR and the pace drifted. All in all they were pretty similar sessions.
1, 7:24/m, 135 bpm
2, 7:17/m, 143 bpm
3, 7:33/m, 142 bpm
4, 7:29/m, 146 bpm
5, 7:33/m, 146 bpm
6, 7:35/m, 148 bpm
6.24 miles at subLT ... 7:29/m 82% maxHR
Tuesdays session is here...
1, 7:15/m, 140 bpm
2, 7:31/m, 143 bpm
3, 7:26/m, 144bpm
4, 7:37/m, 144bpm
5, 7:36/m, 144bpm
6, 7:44/m, 144bpm
6.24M at 7:32/m 82% maxHR
Rest day tomorrow ... Mon-Fri has been 50M on the bike and 32 running, inc 2 x subLT sessions, so looking forward to a day off. 13.2 hilly miles planned for early Sunday morning.
excellent running, Dr Dan
hope the drinks were worth it, Andi
complete stinker of a Run for me today :-
had an appointment First thing today so missed my usual early morning slot which meant running in 24 degree heat, 80% humidity :-!
13 miles, av. pace 8.35, av HR 78% :-
slow shit and nowhere near MP. but miles in the Bank
posting from my phone, ie. sorry for random weird capitals :-/
BeDe thx
Brian hope the rest day has eased things up...
DD super subLT today
VT glad the Achilles seems to be sorted. Hope you enjoyed Independence Day
Sub60 I agree with Brian - a parkrun sandwich (x there, parkie, x back) will keep you in check...
Andi ouch. Hope the toe gets better quickly
Chick well done for slogging out the 13 in this heat...they all count
Sports massage, 90 mins hot yoga then a 5.5m heavy-legged recovery for me.
Not had any internet access (due to sky being useless) so been on phone. Will catch up properly on Sunday when I get back from my weekend away
Did an impromptu 5k last night. 19:30 Never been that quick ever and think I can go a little quicker.
14 miles done this afternoon
two of my Bedgebury loops, total 14 miles. £:02 at 12:55 ave pace, so well pleased!
Now, I did listen to what you all said about ignore pace, so I focussed more on the HR, first loop I actually managed to average 138 ish, despite the heat. It didnt quite go to plan on second loop, as after 10 miles, my rate went up and I couldnt do jack s**t about it. Oh well, still averaged 142 for the whole run, so from what I can see, thats a result for me!
Sticking to the HR worked, and its how I will try to do future stuff. Honest.
Question: I saw earlier on this thread that it can be detrimental or at least hold back HADD progression by doing faster Tempos etc, now, my current training plan requires tempos, will it really affect HADDing that much? I will only be doing 1 per week, and for my level it will only be 10:30mm. should I just get on and do them, or adjust to lower?
Cheesy, can't see 10:30s doing any great harm. And if it's in your schedule.....
Guess you gotta play it by ear and see how you cope/feel. You need to enjoy what you are doing.
DrDan, cracking run and very quick progression.
Chick, good, tough miles banked.
Tek, the rest did the trick. Got out for 5.5 sunny miles at lunch. Looking fwd to long run tomorrow morning.
Andi, impressed with your choice of post-run rehydration
Good news on pops. Hope the toe is just a passing niggle.
Spen, nice 5k time out of the blue. Good quality speedwork.
Great times Dr.Dan and your splits are awesome! is it really flat where you run? I struggle to have mile splits within a minute of eachother.
Chick, the day I can post '13 miles, av. pace 8.35, av HR 78%' I'll be doing somersaults down the high street and won't be calling it slow shit
Teknic, Hot Yoga? you been ogling a ladies Yoga class? hope you recover from your recovery run
spen, enjoy your weekend away
Cheesy, I agree with what Brian is saying and he knows much more about running than me
If it's not enjoyable then why do it. As for your HR going up on the second loop it may have been the heat but also Cardio drift (what a cool sounding thing) and I see it as not having endurance yet but believe that is what HADDing is all about and eventually you will build the endurance and cardio drift should all but disappear (well, thats how I see it?).
Toe is much better thanks peeps and will decide on a 7 or 17 miler in the morning. Thursday nights 'session' was a precurser for my B'day on Friday (hic, 54) and did quite well... 2 pairs of 1000 mile Fusion socks, a Gortex running cap, a bottle of Arran 14yr old single malt, a new expression for me and not bad (as Brian suggests shall use it as post-run rehydration) a Garmin 910xt!!!! and a 3 day pass to the 2014 F1 at Silverstone.