HADD training plan



  • Thanks bluenose and Roy. You are both spot on.

    Crikey Brian, calm down!

    Good luck everyone at the weekend. Cheers bluenose, it's coming down...slowly. 10miles at 138ave, 12:45(ave). Still running everyday, small improvements, I may even get to 11min miles before Christmas!!
  • It's working for me...

    7 miles + at 8:29s for 74% MHR last night. Was 10:04s at the end of October...

  • Excellent effort, Crash. These are the sort of updates that encourage folk.

    You must be well happy.
  • Spen71.

     Ref:  cycling,  went back to cafe no luck.

    CH,excellent results so far .

    2x5miles @ 114 hr

    1x3miles@ 114 hr

    which equates to about 10 min mile pace at the moment.

  • Laureate/Spen thnx guys.

    Roy, that's a strange way of being friendly.
  • Just got back from a 10.75 mile run - 01:49 Avg Pace 10:14 HR 139. I am in week 5 and now feel that I have to work to keep my HR up rather than battle to keep it down. I am seeing some pretty rapid progress at the moment 12:20 MM /Avg to 10:51 /Avg in the space of 2 weeks so am pretty pleased image
  • ?? It's Groundhog Day!! I saw that post yesterday Brian.

    Another vote here for keeping going as you are. I'm grateful for the help you've given me directly and in your advice to others.

    I had a nice outing today...10 miles at 70% (140) @ 9:21m/m. Half pavement half grassy and muddy path. Felt good.
  • Mr Chop or is it ok to call you Lamb ?? lol.

    Out of interest how long have you been HADD'ing ? How long have you been running at < 140 HR. Obviously it is the law of diminishing returns and at some point I will have squeezed as much as I can out of < 140 HR so will then start running at 145 or throw in the 2 x 80% runs a week to see if they give me any extra pace at < 140.

  • Sorry about the refresh browser thing.
    Simon/crash love it when a plan comes together. (Always think
    Of keegan when I think "love it")

    Rest day for me, snake lane 10 tomora.

    Good luck to peeps racing/long running in the morning.

  • Either is fine by me Simon

    I started mid-Oct 2011.  My main objectives are to be able to run faster for longer. 

    Stage 1 for me was (and still is) to increase weekly mileage, starting from a base of under 20 miles a week.  I did my first (baseline) mini-test end-Oct.  Things were going quite well up until end-Nov where I picked up a stinker cold whilst in out in Poland.  Combo of cold / a dodgy ankle / eating and drinking too much kept me out of action until the new year when I re-started in earnest.

    The return to running in January was a bit grim.  While my legs and lungs felt OK, the HR reductions that I had achieved seemed to have gone out the window.  Once again my HR was shooting over the target even when I was mincing along as slowly as I could manage.  Between then and now things have improved and this morning's run was one of my best this year.

    I suppose that absolute improvements thus far are sub-astounding.  Like you, I have not yet introduced regular 80% runs into the mix and understand that these can really help to push things along.  Even so I'm quite pleased to have:

    • increased weekly milage to 35 miles (whilst getting on top of the ankle issue)
    • increased speed at 140bpm from 10:38 m/m (measured on track) to 9:21 m/m (measured on mixed terrain this morning)
    • lost over a stone
    • found a structured path to follow to guide my running
  • Lamb Chop and Simon A - great news. Nice to see some positive comments.

    Keep it up and please do let us know how the improvements continue.

  • I really should wear my HR strap more.   I just try and keep it at 10 min miles which I know is 133 on the flat lol.

    For the next two weeks I am going to wear it all the time and stick to under 133.  See how I get on.

  • Spen - you really need to wear your HR strap every run as 10 mm may will be 133 one day but could be 135 or 129 the next. My first HADD run I used my Garmin with the default screen and no HR alarms set and just kept an eye on the tiny little heart / HR at the top right of the screen.

    I have now set-up my Garmin 305 (which I think is the same as yours) so that it displays Elapsed Time / Current HR / AVG HR and nothing else on the main screen, and have PACE / AVG PACE / DISTANCE & CLOCK on the 2nd screen - you access this by using the up and down arrows in case you don't know. I have also set HR alarms if my HR goes below 135 or above 140 - it's all in the manual and isn't as difficult to set up as you might think.This has really got me out of the Pace / Miles mindset and into running Time/HR

    I tend to have a shocker of a run every 7-10 days where my HR is all over the shop and I have no pace I either stick with it (it's supposed to be character building image) or if it was a longer run cut it short to 5 or 6 miles. 

     Lamb Chop your experience is spookily similar to mine as I managed to twist my ankle earlier this year running off road with my dog, lost a similar amount of weight which is great not to have to drag around with you and have been running 35-45 miles a week. Did 5.2 miles in 52:21 this morning 10:02 so am close to cracking the 10:00 MM at < 140 HR so I'll soon be catching you image

    I think I am going to read the HADD doc again and decide what I should be doing after week 6 - Brian there may be questions coming your way.

    Gus - hang on in there "you just have to believe"

  • Thanks Simon,   I actually did all that last night.   Just set an upper HR as not bothered if it goes to low.

    I am 4 weeks in now of just running easy with the odd quick mile to turn my legs over.   Not sure whether to do 6 weeks of pure 70% or add one 80%.

  • Hey Spen - sorry wasn't trying to teach grandma to suck eggs image. I would recommend setting a low HR alert as I have found as I have got fitter and the "Diesel" engine has built if I am not concentrating on my pace my HR drifts downwards and my pace slows down. Quite often in a run the "Diesel" kicks in / HR drops and I then find myself having to run harder to try and stay near 140.
  • Ah I get you.   Doing a long run of about 3 hours today so is it worth me doing it?
  • , if I am not concentrating on my pace my HR drifts downwards and my pace slows down. Quite often in a run the "Diesel" kicks in / HR drops and I then find myself having to run harder to try and stay near 140.

    Simon A, the same has started to happen to me towards the end of my runs, strange really as it's almost the reverse of my " normal run " ie, I speed up the closer i get to home/ finish.

  • Roy & Simon.... I remembered reading something about what you've gone through...

    When your legs are low on fuel (during heavy training this can be pretty common), particularly after long runs or hard workouts or races, you HR will usually be lower than normal at all paces. This is a strange, counterintuitive situation, but it's very real. Work sessions should be done when the legs are fresh, usually 2-3 days after prior sessions, and with good nutrition between

    This latter effect can fool you into thinking you've reached a new fitness level, because your HR will be lower than expected at a given pace. The legs will usually be a little heavy or sore in this situation, so if they are, adjust your interpretation of the numbers accordingly. Trust the HR numbers if you are well fuelled and the legs feel fresh. If less fresh, be a little skeptical about the numbers.


    Hope this is useful....

  • Bluenose74 thanks,

    Simon its #16on above site.

    Maybe i need to review my weeks training program.

  • Bluenose - I think I have come across the article that you have posted before and admitly have just re speed read it and understand exactly what you are trying to say but what I have experienced is different. I will be out for a run and all of a sudden it feels easier and if I look at my Garmin my HR has dropped by about 5 or 6 beats so I then run faster to get it back up nearer to 140 (my target HR)  I will maybe run for 500 metres to 1k at this pace and then HR starts to drift upwards again so I have to slow down a bit - this seems to come and go in waves througout the run. This seems to happen more often preceeding a step up in pace and I can feel when a long-term improvement is coming on.
  • Simon... May be its a external source interferring with the strap to watch signal.... I was out recently and my reading went up to 220HR, which is unusual for me, as my max is175....

  • No it couldn't possibly be that - it must be my running improving image (and I am going to keep believing that)
  • Just re-read the whole 25 page HADD doc as I am trying to decide what to do after week 6 and found the following that may provide some inspiration to our man Big Gus

    "Suggested training HR's: Easy every day running: 145 HR or lower (If you begin really unused to this form of training, initially you might start at 150, but as soon as the pace at this HR improves, it is recommended that you reduce your easy running HR to 145 or lower). This can often feel very slow to begin with, but should improve within 3-6 weeks and continue to improve for months"

    I think I am just going to keep running at <140 HR but try and consistantly get my mileage to 50 mpw. Have been doing 35-45 over the past 5 weeks.

  • Sorry, never ment to be negative..... And your more likely to be right, with the program your working too, and long may it continue...
  • Bluenose - no problem never interpreted your comment in that way. There are a couple of places where I run that the HR on my Garmin goes crazy due to interference from some overhead power cables. Thanks for the encouraging words.

    I suppose after week 6 it would be interesting to do a mini-test and post the results up here - don't really have a convenient track and have never run on a track anyway. Where do you guy's do your HADD mini-tests if you do them ? There is a small local park/playing field that I could lap uninterrupted but would be running on grass but I suppose if I did all my tests there it would be consistent. Problem with a street route is people walking on the pavement, crossing roads etc could impact time.

  • Well I have been out tonight.

    80 min @10.08 min/miles @131HR

  • Hi SimonA, I have always done the 2.4k test on the treadmill. If you don't have access to a treadie, then fields will be fine. As you say, it's only a benchmark, and so it's more important to do all the tests on the same terrain/environment. Try and ensure you are fresh/well-rested.

    Hope everybody's had a good week training-wise.

  • SimonA - you read my mind.

    I've been referring to the Hadd thesis (printed out, in a pile, staring and teasing me from the dinner table) for the past few days. He says anybody with a MHR of 191 and above should try and run at 145 (150 at a push).

    I was out yesterday and managed 10m @138 (roughly 73%) but at 12:50min miles-ish. My query is: HR definitely coming down (I was doing same mileage at same pace a fortnight ago but struggling to keep HR below 150/160!)...do I continue with the painfully slow pace purely because I have seen improvement in HR coming down? Heart and head say yes.

    SimonA, thoughts? Agree?
  • Big gus, my opinion (fwiw) is if you read deeper into the hadd method, he
    Suggests running with no (or minimal) drift before stepping up.
    Try your run in an outandback stylee, and compare data from the out and back sections.
    Warm-up first of course.
  • Brian - in my opinion (with 5 weeks of HADD'ing which makes me an expert image). I think Gus needs to just keep on doing what he is doing and just spending time on his feet running in his 70%-75% HR zone as he has a lot more toothpaste to squeeze out the bottom of the tube.

     Gus the 12:50 MM will come down - I expect you will see some progress on this over the next couple of weeks. Running at HR 138 at 73% of HR/Max is fine I think it is unrealistic to expect your HR and your Pace to both improve significantly at the same time - it's like trying to give up smoking and drinking at the same time.

    Try and forget about Pace and just get the miles in at 70%-75% HR and the Pace will look after itself - more importantly try and enjoy your running. Make the most of the slower running and have a good look around at what you normally miss as you are just zipping by - spring is probably a good time for this.

     Not recommended by HADD but I went out the other week (after about 4 weeks of HADD) without my Garmin and just ran with my dog - don't know how far, don't know what my HR was or my Pace - it was good to have a mental break from all the HADD stuff and remember that running is not just about a bunch of numbers. 

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