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HADD training plan
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VT runner: that's a lot of miles. For me personally 70 is borderline - close to it I break down. Not so much with injury but with illness, especially nasty chest infections. As I have asthma, so bronchitis is not a good thing to have
. 60 mile weeks feel comfortable and I enjoy them. Perhaps there is a similar border for you as well that if you cross it, it ends in disaster. Wishing you a speedy recovery and I hope you find something to x-train.
. 22 mile run on Sunday at 72% (bang on 9mm) - what a great thing to do! Previously those 20+ milers would have left me knackered for the rest of the day. Now I'm fresh, nothing hurts and I'm ready to go out on bike rides with hubby in the afternoon.
very encouraging LT run, mace!
I broke 8mm for the first time during todays' so there is light at the end of the tunnel
mace, yes - that's the tough bit. With the adrenaline pumping it's easy to get straght into race intensity. If this happens, you can always try and rejig the plan by say putting the easier running in the middle section. It may be easier to back off at 4/5 miles as you begin to tire.
chickadee, guess you are marathon training - which one are you doing?
chick' - very nice running
Brian - when i put my entry in about 6 wks ago i estimated my time to be 2:00 - 2:15. I'd be disappointed if i didn't beat that now so hopefully being in that time group ( i assume that's how it works, people are grouped in expected finish times ) at the start will help me start sensibly.
mace, that seems reasonable. Set yourself HR targets at 4 and 8 miles.
Hi forty_44,
Interesting to hear you've had this problem too. Was yours a sports hernia as well?
I live in Vermont and have yet to see a general surgeon (will in a couple weeks). I'm due for an ultrasound next week. It's been a frustrating experience. My PT and Sports Medicine doc (who does not do surgery) say it's a sports hernia but again haven't seen a general surgeon yet. I'm seeing the chief of surgery who I'm told is very good. I just hope he's knowledgable about this injury. No one seems to have experience with it or to have a very good rehab plan for me. My reading suggests there are just a few surgeons in the US that do this well (or with high frequency to ensure they are good). Would you mind telling me more about the types of core work you did during the 3 months after injury (but before surgery)? Did you/could you do any cross training during this time? How did you decide to get surgery (what doc) and what type of surgery (e.g. mesh or not, laproscopic or open). Last, what was your recovery like and how long before you were running again?
I hope you are back 100%. To be honest, this whole situation is like a bad dream and I feel helpless to predict/know how things will go.
Chickadee, yes, perhaps you are correct about the mileage line. I have to say though...if I hadn't added the 80% runs, I think I could have kept the 60-70 mile weeks. Perhaps a better compromise might be 50ish weeks with the a single 80% in the future. I'll probably just HADD my way back to a good volume and just keep HADDING minus any speed for a long while and very gently begin to introduce some shorter tempo stuff. I think having a core strenghtening program will be key as well.
Mace, I'm certainly no expert (and who knows what really did me in) but I'd be conservative about your mileage. There's no hurry. If you are feeling niggles here and there that is probably a good sign to keep the mileage where it's at, take a step back week, or, if a down week doesn't suffice, maybe reduce the mileage a bit (or see if you are getting enough sleep or are eating well enough). Good luck to you moving forward.
Hi all,
Decided to venture out this afternoon for a 10k easy run to see what sort of readings my HR monitor would put out! Instead of trying to keep my MR at a certain level I just took it easy and monitored the results.
For the first 3-4 miles my HR was sitting at about 80%, and I felt great, wasn't out of breath etc. For the last couple of miles it crept up to 90% (possibly because i was going slightly uphill and I got a bit excited at the fact that I felt so good!).
I even had energy for a sprint at the end to see how high I could get my ticker pounding!
I was tempted to really push but due to the heat I gave it a miss. It was a scorcher!
Probably sad but it felt really good to finish a decent distance and not be in any pain etc!! 65 mins for 6.2mile
I had a mesh repair via an open surgery, longer recovery time but less likely to need further repair in future. My physio recommended the surgeon and the surgery when I wasn't recovering with core work.
Recovery was about 3-4months from start to finish, and was painful at the beginning, but that's more to do with the fact that you use that area so much in general day to day life! Once all the internal bruising etc settles then its just a case of strengthening the area.
I would say I'm definitely 100% recovered from it and don't get any pain in the area and it feels much stronger. I personally wouldn't go for anything other than the mesh, but I'm sure there are people that have had the stitch method who would swear by that...... What I do know about mesh is that my surgeon listed about 10 premiership footballers who had had repairs done, about 3 by him with mesh and 7 by someone else using a stitch, most of the 7 stitched ones have had mutliple surgeries, the mesh people have just had the one surgery and contine to.play football now.
It's tough to find info about, try searching for Gilmore groin too (its the same thing but different name!).
Forty,
Thanks for the info. Very glad to hear you are back to 100%.
Perhaps I'll be lucky and heal; I did stop most everything as soon as it flared up the first time. Waiting game now.
Mesh or stitch? I'd rather be contemplating 8 miles or 12 miles today...
mace ... very nice subLT session
. Good luck with the HM!
I haven't managed a sub-LT session yet this month! With recovery, a trip to London and a parkrun (20:04 - best for 13 months), there hasn'r been much scope for a Hadd sub-LT. However, I've run an 18M and a 20M (2 weeks apart), each with a 6.2M section at the end which has been pushing the HR a touch over sub-LT by the end.
DrDan, things going well for you obviously with a fast 5k! And I'm guessing you've done little or no specific speedwork for that?
On the subject of 5k racing, I (and a couple of mates) did the York 5k last night. Lovely evening, a bit too warm and muggy really, but having done some quality sessions over the last 4 weeks was expecting to beat my last 2 runs on this course - 18:40 (2009) and 18:56 (2011). Had a really good run and pushed all the way for 18:09 and (ditto DrD) fastest 5k for a while. Needless to say I'm happy with my progress. Easy for the rest of the week now, with a visit to Beverley Races tomorrow and a few beerios.
Brain. ... yes, I've done no speedwork for ages. I'm hoping to improve on that on Saturday - although it was my best 5K for over a year, I felt very "heavy legged" even during the warm up (probably due to the vast number of hours on my feet while Olympic trailing in London). Well done on the 5K at York - great time ... enjoy the beverages!
Hi everyone,
Started running Nov 2011, tried HADD training for Silverstone HM in March 2012. I was too impatient, struggling to keep my HR low enough to start (which seems a common theme on this thread). Changed program - got injured - got mended - did HM and then went on to do Malvern HM 5% faster. Trying to train for 10K by increasing speedwork - guess what - injured again!!
Not serious - 2 weeks will sort it out. Decided 'speed' is not my bag so want to go back to HADD again for Siverstone HM in March 2013.
So plenty of time (I think) to try and get to an 8:55 m/m from my current HM pace of 9:40 m/m. That may sound VERY slow to some people but I'm 53 and have not run previous to last November for 30 years. Some advice please. I can currently train about 4 times a week (sometimes 3) - current mileage 15 - 17 (was doing 25 when training for HM) - what would anyone recommend for HM (weekly mileage) using the HADD methodology in order to get to where I want given I have 26 weeks to get there - starting at around 20 miles. Is there an optimum mileage or is it down to time on legs?
MaxHR = 183
70% - 128
75% - 137
80% - 146
85% - 156 (this is what I would like to aim for at HM pace)
Hi BD2000
. If a HM is your aim, I would just concentrate on getting your weekly mileage up first. HM training really requires at least 40 mpw, with at least a 14 mile LSR once a week. To get there you need to build up from your 15-25 mpw starting point gradually over the next 10-11 weeks ... say 15, 17, 19, 21, 23, 25, 28, 31, 34, 37, 40, all at around 125-135 bpm.
So start with something like this...
Sun 5M, @ 125 bpm
Tues 2M, @ 135 bpm
Wed 3M, @ 130 bpm
Thurs 2M, @ 135 bpm
Fri 3M, @ 130 bpm
... and the next week add a little distance to the Sun, Wed, Fri runs ... and the following week add some mileage to the Tues & Thurs runs. Then go back to increasing the Sun, Wed, Fri runs ... etc etc. Try to keep the Sunday run at about 30-35% of the total mileage, so that it will be 12-14M by the time you get to 40 mpw. Maybe somethign like...
Sun 14M, @ 125 bpm
Tues 4M, @ 135 bpm
Wed 8M, @ 130 bpm
Thurs 6M, @ 135 bpm
Fri 8M, @ 130 bpm
At this point you will be much more robust and will want to then start to introduce a sub-LT session once a week and move onto a proper Hadd-like base-traing schedule for 10 weeks ... and then after that you could start introduing some HM pace work (and faster) over the final 5-6 weeks.
But first off you need lots of slow SAFE miles.
Thx Dr.Dan,
5 times a week - well if thats what it takes then I'll do it.
125bpm will be VERY slow, could even be near walking! I'll do another HRMax test to ensure I'm still at 183 (last tested Nov 2011). Have 500 miles under belt since then so going back will be difficult. Have heard that running that slow can also be detrimental as its not a natural gait?
Mileage sounds OK - I'll start with your recommendations
Don't worry about being too rigid on the 125 bpm at the start ... that's something you'll get better at as the aerobic base builds. Stay below 135% though ... also, your 5K pace plus 3 minutes is an alternative "easy pace".
Building a base is essential ... but it requires patience!
DrDan, You killed the thread there! I think it may've been the mention of 135% - that has definitelty scared the Haddites away.
Not sure what to do today now. Was scheduled to do 70mins @ 80% but I reccy'd my leg of the Leeds Country Way last night, and it was very wet/boggy. Took a tumble coming out of the Fulneck valley and twisted my knee a little. Feels ok this morning though.
Will see how I feel and tone it down if necessary.
VERY quiet on here !!
Been on holiday for 2 weeks in which time i did loads of very slow stuff between 65-70% HRmax and no fast stuff at all. Did a 42M and a 35M week which i was well happy with including LSR's of 15.5M and 13.5M.
First sub-LT run this morning in 3 weeks. Wasn't really expecting much as i've been feeling a bit run down last couple of days ( funny how a 2 week holiday has that effect !? ) with the sniffles, sore throat and a bit of a dodgy belly
Long story short, i ran the usual sub-LT route of just under 8M and averaged 7:59/mile @ 81% HRav ( last one was 8:17/mile @ 80% HRav. )
NOW THAT HAS EXCITED ME
especially as i'm not feeling my best
And i didn't manage the mile warm down either as my stomach was doing somersaults on the last lap and i had to get to the loo
. If it wasn't for that this would have been a very comfortable run 
mace, sounds like the "rest" has done you good.
Can't believe I haven't posted on here since 20.3.12, though did get injuried (self-inflicted) end of march... Brian, cracking 5k couple of weeks back....
I have been away for a week - but I did get a scare when I saw the 135%
Start new program next week - will post how it goes. I know the first post will be "How the hell do I keep this HR down?"
Ta Bluenose, glad to see you're back.
Binned my 80% run yesterday, did an easy 8miles instead. I felt tired and heavy-legged. Easy 5M today and rest tomorrow. 3rd leg of Leeds Country Way relay on Sunday. Off-road is not my thing but I like the team events.
BD2000, Good luck with the new program.
Thx - I've got 9 weeks scheduled starting at 16 mpw @130 - 135bpm moving up to 30 mpw staying at this HR for the whole period (71% - 74% of max HR).
Thoughts on completing a mini HR test - I know in the original HADD document John tested 'Joe' at different Heart Rates over 2400m but looking at that I'm pretty sure I couldn't do the equivalent (equivalent for my max HR that is) over that distance. Has anyone any thoughts on completing the same test for 1200m instead? If I do the test at this distance it will give me a benchmark that I can backtest every 4 to 6weeks. Am I missing something vital by reducing the distance? - I know John mentions taking the first 600m to build up to the Target Heart level therefore with my reduced test distance giving me 600m to maintain the HR - is that long enough?
Again I have to mention to start with I don't think I could maintain the 90% & 95% of max HR for the original 1800m (post 600m to get up to HR) that John advocates for the last two parts of the test and I certainly don't want to risk injury.
My thoughts are with the shorter duration for the test I would hopefully obtain some meaningful figures. Over to anyone!
BD2000, I'm not sure it's that important actually. It is only a benchmark to measure progress. If it phases you, don't do it.
You can always measure your progress by doing the same run at the same HR, something like 70mins@70% would be a good measure initially.
August has been something of a mess for me ... I really needed a big mileage month in prepataion for next weeks HM (but see below
) and the Chester marathon in 5 weeks time. However, real life had other plans. The trip to London for the Olympics, a couple of Sunday am car boot sales and a couple of day trips out with the family, hill walking/camping in the lakes, and then 5 days away at EuroDisney. So, only 126 miles between 1st Aug and 2nd Sept ...but that included 5 long ones (14, 18, 20, 20 and 23 miles) and two 20:0x parkruns. Not really the way to train but very little flexibility.
Due to having no car (total economic loss ... I crashed into a wall on the way back from the lake district
), I probably can't run the HM on Sunday 
. However, I will try to obtain a new car before then, so you never know.
Seem to have killed it again!
Still here
Only Day 1 of HADD prog started yesterday so not much to tell, except VEEERRRRYYYY SLLLOOOOWWWW. Main problem I think will be stopping myself getting bored as I'll be doing this for 9 weeks initially. Feels like I've gone backwards as I put in a couple of very short runs at less than 130HR last week to get a feel for it. boy it is frustrating but I will persevere.
If not I'll give myself 100 lines and a swift caning!
Judging from past posts this is the time when most people give up on HADD as they feel they are running too slow. I had to walk on a couple of inclines but recovery was swift so back to running very quickly.
I was going to update progress weekly.
DrDan, Yep, thats the trouble, life and work getting in the way. Sorry to hear about the car. Hope you can get something sorted and still make your HM. You could do with car sharing with someone. Do you use FETCH? I believe they have some sort of system for car sharing?
BD2000, Hope you can stick with it. You'll find after a couple of weeks that the pace increases, especially after a few longer runs (60+ mins).