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HADD training plan
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Bad luck AtD
... I learned that lesson a few years back and so stayed this side of the Pennines.
5.4 miles for me today ... a little laboured after the bug and legs were asleep after only 10 miles in the previous 2 weeks (glad I didn't attempt to race yesterday!). I have 6 weeks of 10K prep ahead of me now ... and then on to a solid Hadd base period over the winter.
bad luck chaps, must be frustrating to do all that training and then not be able to race as you'd like. But the training should presumably see you well for future races, right? it's not as though it's wasted.
I'm trying to steadily increase my weekly mileage without injuring myself.
4 x 1 hour "jogs" planned midweek week, then a 5k parkrun on Saturday and another slow 60min jog on Sunday, which should mean at that paedestrian pace (11:15 min/mile ish for the slow runs) I'll cover about 30 miles.
Hopefully this slow jog will get slightly faster as I get fitter. That's the theory, right?
i've added this to a couple of other threads on this forum, but worth adding here too: I've entered Manchester marathon next April and my mate, who has done a dozen marathons (ish) and has a 3:57 PB off of very little training (he doesn't really train, just runs for 90 mins once a week) and smokes and drinks a lot, has also entered. I'd like to show him that my approach of putting in lots of effort, but having very little natural talent can trump his oppoising approach. It's going to take quite a bit of faith as I slow through the next 3 months at a snails pace, to think that it's doing me good in the long term. Any stories of encouragement in this approach will be appreciated
AG. It will work....stick to it. You may not see fantastic results to start with but you will by christmas see a considerrable difference. I am not sure of your weight but also watch what your eating. Dont fall into the trap of treating yourself just because you are running so much. Every lb is worth circa 2 sec/mile. ( thats right lose a stone and save 13 mins off your marathon time )
Dr. Dan,
Tough luck on the illness. I think you made the right decision. Had you gone out it would not have been representative of your training. But all that good base is still intact and you can keep moving forward. Good luck getting ready for the 10K.
I'm still on the comeback trail. I'm in a bit of an unknown place right now. I'm trying to be conservative in ramping back up, but this is so hard. If I go out thinking I'll only run 6 miles, I'll end up running 9 (if I feel good at 6). Seems to be a pathological voice in my head. Anyway, I still get some weird twinges/feeling over the sports hernia area, but it doesn't get worse (is getting better week to week) and feels fine after the run (especially the next morning). 30 miles in this week.
It's interesting. I can go out and run 90 minutes without getting tired. That said, I'd say I lost a solid 45 seconds per mile at 70% MHR. How quickly that returns remains to be seen. But, despite that loss, I can go out and run for 70 minutes at 80% max HR very comfortably. While I'm moving slower at 80% now vs when I got hurt, I expected to have great difficulty at the higher HR for while.
My plan is to stick to the 25-40 MPW range for a while and just get my legs/HR back. If all is well around Xmas, I'll ramp back up to the 60-70 MPW and see which marathan to tackle next spring or fall. Oh yeah, I'll be doing plenty of core work!
cheers AGF, i'm reasonably patient and happy to dig in and do the work if I think I'm going to get results, but the reassurance along the way helps.
as for weight, it's not really a big issue for me. I'm 5'10'' and 70kg, so pretty lean. My weight rarely changes, and I eat a healthy balanced diet, so my only concern is making sure i eat enough carbs to make up for the extra calories i'll be burning up as the mileage increases.
AgentO ... just stick to it and you'll be sucessful.
VTRunner - good to hear you're repairing nicely ... your comeback plan seems sensible to me.
AtD - I was going to run Helsby but my son has a hockey tournament in the opposite direction, so I'm now hoping to do Brass Monkey HM in York instead. It's on the same day as Helsy but I might be able to do the taxi duties and run as well. The only issue is getting a place in BM ... it sells out within hours!
Vtrunner- all the best with the comeback. Hope it happens for you.
Dr Dan- fair enough, york is nice anyway. I wouldn't turn down a trip there either. Does it really sell that quick? I mean hours, sheesh thats fast. I thought helsby fills quick with 1100 out of 2000 places taken in first 6 days of entries being open.
Missing running allready, still sore from Sunday.
cheers guys, re the weight, I'm pretty happy with my weight at the moment, and my body fat is pretty low so I'll be aiming to maintain my weight, if possible, as my mileage increases. Good job I enjoy rice and pasta :-
Dr Dan / AtD - tough luck for Chester - frustrating I'm sure
AG - I have been training on HADD system for only 5 weeks now - I'm 53 and weigh in at a hefty 156 lbs!!! My pace for the 70% max HR is about the same as yours - I'm averaging 11:30 / 11:45. At first, my HR was up and down like a yoyo - I had to walk on some of the inclines - I started on 15 miles per week. Now my HR is much more stable, my pace is not improving yet but I can see because HRav is getting stable it is only a matter of time before this will be reflected in pace. I no longer have to walk to keep the HR down (I still have to run VERY slow though). I've worked up to 21 miles per week now and have two longer runs in there at 60 to 80 mins. I have given myself 9 weeks to get to 30+ miles then review where I'm at. At that point I would hope that I can see my pace improving and that my HR has become very stable. I'm aiming to get the pace to under 11:00 (maybe better) on my base phase (70% - 74% max) before moving up to introduce the next level of training.
So - don't be dissapointed with the slow pace to start. It feels wrong and uncomfortable but you have to give HADD time to work. I have completed 2 half marathons this year, did these prior to starting HADD so it did feel like a step backwards - but not now. My running is getting easier at this slow pace, I have had NO injuries since starting and providing I stick to the regime I don't anticipate any.
I'm not doing any races until March next year - I've realised this is going to take some time and I want to give the HADD system my best shot - which means allocating some serious time to it.
AG - attached is comparison of wk1 and wk 5 (runs approx same length in time). Note gap between HR (white lines) is narrower on week 5 meaning more stable. My point is to show that this is working.
Guys - dramatic pace downspikes are NOT me falling asleep on my slow run
it's actually a road crossing (honest).
i ran home last night (5 miles) in 55 mins, and back in this morning in 57 mins. Was a very slow plod, but felt tougher this morning, even though the pace was slower. possibly fatigue. I'll be doing the same Wed night/Thurs morning. Logistically much easier than running the same direction each day (i.e. always to, or always from work) because I can ride my bike the other way, and can leave my clothes at work. I swear that half of the challenge of running regularly is logistics and time management
interesting chart BD2000, it would suggest that your body is getting used to running at that effort. hopefully by wk9 you'll have a steady avg HR just lower down the y axis, for the same effort. Or the HR will remain the same but the pace will be higher.
I hear you! Sometimes I cycle in and run home ... and the next day I then run in and cycle home. That really confuses me.
Dr Dan, that's my routine exactly. It confuses my gf even more.
Andy, i carry a small camelbak. I leave my shoes, suit and belt at work permanently (we have lockers which is a help) along with shower stuff. I carefully fold my ironed shirts each morning into a small package and pack them, remarkably they arrive relatively uncreased, then take them back in the evening. It's a fairly neat routine once you get into the swing of it. I don't mind the cold at all (i'd rather run in sub zero than 20 degree heat) but the combination of cold, wind and rain is miserable. Saying that, it's arguably better running through bad weather on the pavement than cycling through it on the road, next to all the buses and trucks.
Given that my run home is only 5 miles and at my current sluggish pace is ~55mins, if i do ever get any quicker at this effort then I'll need to add some sort of detour to keep it at around an hours run.
When you get quicker you could probably just tag bits on cant you to make up the difference?
Take my hat off to you guys commuting. I have done it in the past (11miles each way on the canal, 9miles on the road), but would hate to have to do it especially in the Winter.
I have the luxury of a 2hour lunch window and a shower at work. Thankyou God!
Last hard run yesterday (4M tempo), in taper mode now.
I'm like you Brian and have the lunchtime option plus shower at work ... I prefer to cycle to/from work and run lunchtimes. But at the moment I'm too lazy to cycle.
Dr Dan that made me smile. cheers. small things eh
Nice result yesterday in my battle to run at a low HR. A fortnight ago I did an 8.4 mile run at 131AHR (78% of MHR), yesterday the same run at 123 AHR(73%MHR) - slower time but that is not the point.
I actually think HADD has got it wrong when he suggests the HR to run at for MHR of 193,183,173,163. They are all MHR-50bpm which then gives relative MHR of 74,72.71,69%. There is nothing in his article to suggest 70 is better than 75% other than a scientific study that says 70% gave better results than 85%.
70% for me would be 118 which will be very difficult to achieve whereas 75% is 126 - much more manageable.
All long runs are at 108 ave bpm for 11miles to 20 miles at 70% and lower, 70% being 112 bpm
This equates to 10 mins a mile.
With very little drift and no water drank till about mile 15 ish, but this does depend on the weather. I am finding the current climate quite pleasant for long runs, as my core temperature remains stable , I can keep my HR down but still maintain a steady even pace.
Pretty impressive Roy - very low HR for long runs
Week 6 on HADD
All runs are now 60 mins or more - I only seem to be able to get out 4 times a week so I've decided to try and make them all quality. Still on my 'Base Phase' and although still no improvement in pace, there is an improvent in HRav stability.Each run is between 70% - 73% MHR which actually equates to the MHR-50bpm that JonnyBike was discusing. This also equates to my 5K pace +3mins so I guess there is plenty of merit in HADD's figures - although I'm sure they will not 'fit' the same for everyone....
Initially had a 9 week plan for this phase - may need to extend this to 12 weeks as I want to get to a 90 min run with no major change in HRav. Don't think this will put March HM in jeopordy in terms of aiming for PB but there's plenty of time yet. It may be that something will 'kick in' within the next few weeks.
Once I see an improvement in pace I will start introducing some 80% sessions twice a week - and that will be a whole new ball game! This is going to take longer but I guess that shows how unaerobically fit I was previously to starting HADD.
Hi guys - sorry, haven't been posting on here for quite some time now.
so thank you Mr. Hadd 
.
It's good to see the thread so active. Very very happy to report I smashed that sub 3:30 with a 3:29:15 (9min 23sec PB) and pretty convinced it was all down to my HADD base building. Marathon training itself was an adapted form of the 12-week P&D schedule but on most runs I stuck to the 70% rule. Never felt so good in a marathon before
At those just starting out and struggling with pace: stick with it.
well done Chickadee, great time, and great improvement on your previous PB. I'm very early days in "HADD" base building training, so good to hear encouragement that improvements will come if I keep the faith.