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HADD training plan
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jeez, a lot of broken gadgets on here at the mo
My HR is the higher in the evenings too. Generally, as of lunchtime onwards I find it's around 5 bpm higher. I find it also harder to run later in the day. I'd much rather get up at silly o'clock and get the run out of the way ...
. Monday designated rest day, so that was ok. Tuesday: CNBA fairy attacked and won. Speedwork yesterday. Left hammy & calf twingy since then. Feeling another argument with the fairy coming on 
(don't run, your leg hurts) 
(run, it'll make you feel better). aaargh!!
mace: great improvement
Having a bit of a struggle with the CNBA fairy this week
Brian - i'd say higher HR in the morning IS strange unless you're doing 10 milers in your sleep
or maybe it's a " SUB-3" thing 
atd - it's good not to worry too much about HR ( i've been guilty ) and just concentrate on enjoying your runs. Too much faffing about takes away the enjoyment
BD - keep with it, your patience will be rewarded
mugpunter - welcome and good luck. I've had some great advice on this thread from some very experienced people who know their onions
Dan - sorry to hear of the tech hiccup
... good luck with the Dash
chick' - generally i also find evenings harder and prefer to get it done in the morning knowing people are wasting their time sleeping while i'm plodding the streets. Less people/traffic about too
Anyway, this MORNING 6.55M in 60 mins = 9.11m/m @ 125 HRav ( 69% ) .... 16 seconds per mile quicker than Weds EVENING for the same effort
LOL, mace
. Well, I won in the end and kicked the fairy into oblivion. 5 done in the wind & rain which was actually quite enjoyable in a slightly perverse kind of way. Then another 7 this morning, first time in hat & gloves 
. VERY cold out there all of the sudden. But I like cold a lot more than heat 
Chick/mace, good stuff on defeating the dreaded CNBA fairy. Fairy? I tend to classify 'her' as a monster! You both fended it off anyway so big up to you guys.
I've been to the pub instead of running this lunch. Birthday do.... 3 pints of good ale - I want to sleep now. Not sure my boss would be too chuffed with that so gonna try and fill my afternoon with a combination of visits to the loo and the coffee machine.
Hello all.
hadd another good run yesterday morning with a club mate,
for those into all the stats, (Brian
) here they are:
Split Summary:
1) - 1m - 8:22 - 121bpm avge - 138bpm max
2) - 1m - 8:14 - 120bpm avge - 133bpm max
3) - 1m - 8:09 - 126bpm avge - 132bpm max
4) - 1m - 8:15 - 131bpm avge - 138bpm max
5) - 1m - 8:02 - 134bpm avge - 141bpm max
6) - 1m - 8:04 - 137bpm avge - 147bpm max
7) - 1m - 8:05 - 137bpm avge - 148bpm max
8) - 1m - 8:00 - 136bpm avge - 145bpm max
9) - 0.93m - 7:29(8:05 pace) - 138bpm avge - 144bpm max.
i`ve deleted the Calories because i dont think there accurate anyway or worth bothering about.
Brian
... sounds like a good Friday workday
.
Andy - the HR is rising quite a bit through that run, despite pretty stable pacing, though from memory your HRmax is very high so I guess it's probaly less than a 10% drift. I expect that in a month or two, you'll see a much more stable HR pattern.
Haven't managed to run yet ... too tied up to escape at lunch but will try to slot in 5 -6 easy miles later.
Brian that sounds a good day to me aswell.
Im sure the figures we use are always of Max HR and not Working HR. Is that correct? It confuses me as my figures are so much different.
Max of 190 @ 70% = 133
(Max of 190 - Rest of 55) @70% + 55 = 150
Its nice to get back feeling good rather than washed aswell. Wish i'd off done this style off training pretty much from when I started running tbh. Really enjoying it at the moment.
Morning. Newbie to thread alert. I've spent a couple of days back reading the first 30 pages and then random pages after that to get an idea of the thread. I have also read the original Hadd PDF doc as recommended by Philpub on page 1 of this thread.
A brief background: I haven't run a marathon this year as I was injured before VLM due to reintroducing cycling without considering it's impact on running. A pity as 4 days before the injury I did manage a decent pb HM or 81.xx mins. After a summer focusing on regaining fitness quickly I traded in my aerobic base for speed work, which soon got me a 5k pb and back within seconds of my 10k pb, but after a couple of months became mentally stale and didn't have the wisdom to back off, resulting in a couple of months of sporadic running.
With VLM a target (P&D starts mid Dec) 2 weeks ago I managed to get some motivation back and have been focusing on running 45min - 2hrs all between 70-75%max (146bpm) as per Hadd. However, from reading this, I am now wondering if I have been miscalculating my HRmax all these years.
When a racing cyclist I used to do max tests, which would come up in the mid 190s. Although I have aged 10 years since (now almost a vet) I have used the same figure - thinking that running HR is generally 10 bpm higher than cycling HR - so will componsate the 10bpm drop due to age.
Although I know of the 5x hill reps and 2x800m MaxHR tests, I have always thought it best to go by the HRs I have in measured repeatedly in races:
My Ave HR for 5k = 175, 10k = 173, HM = 171, Marathon = 161.
Question: With this data - am I over estimating my Max HR at 195bpm? If so, 75% shouldn't be 146bpm and I should be running much slower (a common issue for Hadd newbies I understand).
Sorry about long winded introduction. Advice gratefully received.
I know what you mean Andy about WHR! It is just when i read on net i see on this conflicting advice.
Thanks Brian. I was hoping for higher, but I can see how you estimate that.
I think the only way is to face my demons and do that test. Gulp.
I'll then do the test to try and get maxHR and do HADD properly
I looked over stats for this past season and my max HR was when relatively unfit - my first race back after injury and I reached 182bpm. So I think I'll work with 185bpm for now.
So I went out this morning with adjusted HR zones - 126bpm = 70% of max and really found it difficult mentally to run so slow. 10m/m ave speed. I know people say this is hard, but it feels painfully slow mentally, a bit boring and certainly not taxing at all physically. Do I really need to do this for 6 solid weeks?
Andy and MP32 - when using 5k + 3mins - is that your pb 5k +3mins (mine would work out at 8.45m/m), or your current estimated 5k time +3mins (9.15m/m for me)?
Keir, I'm not too keen on the idea of 5k + 3mins. I know people tend to use it in desperation. I am a great believer in 70% runs in the initial phase. It all depends on how keen you are, and how patient. But to get all the toothpaste out, you really do need to start squeezing right at the bottom. If you stay below 75% initially, I'm sure that within a couple of weeks your 70% pace will be closer to 9m/m.
If you don't mind me asking, what are your current pbs?
More stats - week 8 on HADD. This is my run for yesterday - I still get a tiny bit emabarrased when I look at the pace compared to everyone else, but hey - it is what it is.
1m - 11:07 - 129 (70%)
2m - 10:58 - 135 (74%)
3m - 11:28 - 133 (73%); slower pace for incline
4m - 11:04 - 133 (73%)
5m - 11:32 - 133 (73%); slower pace for incline
6m - 11:16 - 132 (72%)
7m - 11:22 - 132 (72%)
Encouragingly I wanted to go further yesterday - felt like I could have done more miles at this pace. Also my HR doesn't seem to have much drift later on in the run for roughly the same pace. Still want another few weeks at this level with some increased mileage (currently at 24 miles per week)
Taken over the 8 weeks so far these are my average weekly stats.
week - miles - pace - Average HR (%max)
wk1 -17.5m - 11:23 - 71% AvHR
wk2 - 15.5m - 11:44 - 70% AvHR
wk3 - 19.1m - 11:30 - 71% AvHR
wk4 - 20.3m - 11:47 - 71% AvHR
wk5 - 21.1m - 11:29 - 72% AvHR
wk6 - 21.9m - 11:33 - 72% AvHR
wk7 - 19.2m - 11:13 - 73% AvHR
wk8 - 24.5m - 11:18 - 72% AvHR
Although there 'appears' to be no change there definitely IS!
When I look back at some of my stats mid run for earlier runs there were some +12min miles in there!!
This was when I was having to slow down dramatically to keep the HR down - NOW that does not happen at all
, my pace and HR are much more stable - still slow but that will improve.
Over last week or so I've been toying with running to pace for first couple of miles then switching to HR after its got up to 70%.
i'm finding that its rather easy to mess up a run buy going off to quick (7:30pace) so buy sticking to 8min pace while hr rate builds up I could eliminate this problem. What do others think?
That sounds like a good idea Andy. I find I do actually start quite slowly automatically. I don't realise I do until I run with someone else, when I really struggle for the first couple of miles. Certainly HR takes a little while to stablise and make the date accurate.
Thanks for posting the positive comments Andy and BD. It really helps to get some assurance that this plan works. I feel as if I am risking quite a bit by abandoning reasonably paced runs and going ultra slow on everything for the next couple of months.
You are right Brian. It is the discipline and patience which is going to be my challenge. I do understand the logic underpinning this, I just need more reassurances that it is what I need. I am starting to realise that this is a pretty long term approach and rather than base building for VLM training, I still might not be fully 'Hadd fit' and ready for the race in April.
My PBs are:
5k = 17.59 (Ashford 2012)
5m = 30.31 (Mid Kent 2012)
10k = 37.19 (Rye 2011)
10m = 63.32 (Folkestone 2011)
13.1 = 81.39 (Lydd 2012)
26.2 = 2.54.24 (Abingdon 2011)
I have a good endurance background from years of cycle racing. Although I haven't ridden properly for several years, I certainly think that this background has helped me cope aerobically and mentally over the longer distances. I love going out for long steady runs in the hills, it is just family commitments (3 under the age of 6) which restrict this (and rightly so!). I guess I need to man up and get in some 5am starts. I am really appreciating your advce on this. I am also finding lots of tips reading through the original Hadd thread.
Nice work BD2000 ... if you can increase your over all mileage (gradually) you will see big improvements.
Andy - I don't worry too much on my easy runs since HR seems to take care of itself... I just run easy and whatever pace comes out, I take. On my subLT runs, I run the first 2 miles by pace and then stick to the HR limit after that. If I run to HR straight away, then I end up running too fast and pay for it later with HR drift in the last couple of miles.
Keir - if you stick to running at around 9:30/m initially, I bet you'll soon find you can cope with 70%. Your current 5K pace is 15 s/m faster than mine but my 70% pace more like 9/m.
I did the Harewood 10M trail race yesterday - muddy, hilly, muddy, winding, muddy, windy and muddy. The last mile was virtually all up hill as well which was a bit cruel after all that hard work. 75:39 at about 87% maxHR, 80th out of 363. A good tough endurance workout ... which is why I entered it in the first place. Day off today to recover
!
Thanks DD. I'm going to try to see this through. Well done on the race. Sounds like fun (to watch!).
OK - although I have been running under 145bpm for the past 2 weeks, after Brian's new assessment of my HRmax, I completed my first proper 70% run this evening.
I set the HR alarm to 130 (72%) and rarely heard it go off. Rather than shufflng up the hills I used my arms and lifted knees but kept it aerobic but moved forward slowly with very small steps (12-13 m/m).
1hr 38min 9.93miles, 9.53m/m ave hr 124. 140max bpm. Hard for a mile counter such as myself to run for 100mins but cover 3 miles less than normal.
On the positive side - I have found running slower gives me more time to focus on cadence and form. Also, when running in the dark, you don't actually realise how slow you are actually going!