HADD training plan



  • keir, You have a good weeks work there! To fit an 80 % run I would change it round a bit. Firstly, I would tag your core sessions on to your 2 easy days Mon/Thurs.

    Make Tues your long run, and then Friday could become your 80% run.

    so it would look like this:

    Mon   45min@70% + core

    Tues  2hrs@75%

    Wed   90mins + bike

    Thurs 45mins@70%

    Fri   90mins incl 70@80%

    Sat   60mins@70%

    Sun   90mins@70% + bike

    If wed needs to be your long run, then we need to rethink....

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Please excuse the me, me post coming up

    I suppose I should really do that Max HR test Gaz, but I've already had my balls ripped off once this week and really can't face more pain! My PB HRs for Mara was 161 ave (87%), HM 171ave (92.5%) and 5K 175ave (94.5%). Based on these my estimated Max HR is 185(100%!).


    Thanks Brian. I was wondering if I was on the right lines with the HR% mix and whether it is ok to start some 80% now. 

    I can drop down to 1 bike and 1 core sess without an issue. I would probably also drop one of the 45min runs if I needed a rest day (I've usually had 1 day off per wk before).

    Tues and Fri I don't have meetings before work, so can arrive 15mins later and I am prepared to get up 30mins earlier on those days to squeeze in 90 rather than the usual 45min before work.

    On Weds I finish work around 5pm and join my clubs core session at 8pm. This, along with the Sunday ride, are the only times I train with company. Rather than go home, eat and throw up mid squat, I run prior to the core workout, which is why I have put my LSR in there. I could do it on Sunday, but would have to get up even earlier before the bike ride starts.

    I did finish work early on Weds the other week and squeezed in 17m before the core session. image

  • Let the balls settle down before trying that test! Its worth doing though, my max heart rate turned out to be 10-15 BPM higher than the 220-age method predicted. I'd say going of those figures yours could well be higher too.

  • Hi,

    I've been reading through this post for a few days on and off and I'm not finished yet, and I've also read the Hadd pdf, it does make for some interesting reading. Appoligies for the tread length in avdvance, so a little about myself:

    41years old recently starting running for weightloss and general fitness approx 4.5 stones, since Feburary I have built up my miles to a max of 36 miles a week, I've only competed in a handful of races, a 10k in Sept (55:44), HM in Oct(2;03:xx) 17.46k also in Oct(1:41:xx) so I'm not particulary quickimage, I have done some 5k park runs but nothing recent but I would imagine that I could run it in approx 26:xx as I passed 5k mark in 5k in 27 mins during the 10k race.

    my max heart rate during the 10k was 184bpm, 182bpm for the HM and 180bpm for the 17k.

    I went out this evening and ran what I felt was easy, there was some inclines in the route, but unfortunetly it's kind of hilly in the Highlands, key stats are:

    mile 1 10:39 159avg 170max

    mile 2 11:06 146avg 166max

    mile 3 11:08 149avg 165max

    mile 4 10:26 146avg 153max

    mile 5 05:44 141avg 152max (0.49 miles)

    the HR monitor might need to be adjusted as the readings on the graph are all over the place and might be as accurate as they should.

    I have a HM race sheduled for the 17 of March next year and given it's only 19 weeks away would it be benifical to start this type of training now as I would like at least 12 weeks with hills and speedwork sessions thrown in.

    I would be grateful for any advice given image


  • Hi Keir,

    I concur with GazOC. I thought my maxHR was 182 for a while based on 5K races and other runs. It wasn't until I tried to dismantle an elliptical machine by going really fast that I saw it clime to 192. A few months after that I got it up to 200 on a particulary steep hill at the end of run (which may indicate I'm still low as I'd already run 7 miles at that point). Anyway, you may have much more capacity. For me it was a nice surprise to know I could up my 70% figure.

    This week is a step back week for me. I just scouted my mileage since starting out again and it reads as follows by week:  1.5, 2.5, 4, 7, 25, 31, 16, 31, 35, 43,  43, 47. My fitness level is still doing great, but this past week my legs felt a bit heavy on the last few runs. I think I'll drop to 30 miles this week and then try another mid-40s week after that.

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Good steady progression there VT.

    Hi Stewart. One of the main benefits of this training is you can get in a good amount of mileage without the risks of injury that higher intensity running brings. I think you should keep doing these types of runs until mid Jan, then try to include some faster, HM paced work.

    I dug out my Daniels book last night and looked at what they said about MaxHR%

    For Threshold HR - 88-92%Max

    For Marathon HR - 80-90%Max

    Using the mid way point in these bands, and my HM HR of 171 and M HR of 161, I am going to estimate my Max HR at 190 (until I man up and take the test!)

  • StewartC, Welcome to the Haddite thread.

    Looks like your already up to 6hours running presumably in 5 days. Think you are wanting 6 weeks base before HM training. Based on your max being estimated at 188, I would suggest something like:

    1. 60mins@130 2. 60mins@140 3. 90mins@130 4. 60mins@140 5. 120mins@130 

    But this will be walking for you, so may be better using the 5k+3mins rule, so keep on knocking out 11min/miling and hopefully the heart rate will come down.

    I honestly wouldn't do the HM traditional training, I think that you have more to gain just hadding until you can run easy at 130. A few on here have used hadd only in build-up to the HM.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Agree with Brian ... I plan to just use Hadd base-training to build up to my HM in late Jan 2013. The sub-LT sessions are pretty good HM training sessions, so if I can get back to slotting two of these in per week, I'll be happy enough.

  • welcome StewartC. Brian is right and he knows his HADD stuff image. I tried a non-HADD approach for a half in the summer and guess what: DNF due to an injury that I picked up doing speedwork and that I didn't let heal properly image.

    VTrunner: wow, that's what I call a great comeback. Nice miles. Dropping back sounds very sensible. Your legs will thank you for it.

    80% 10 miler today but it was horrendously windy, i. e. splits all over the place and no clear picture really. Av. 8:35, i. e. still nowhere near where I was before marathon day. More patience required image

  • Any advice on running with a cold?? (probably 'MAN FLU' really)

    Cut mileage down, just don't or stop being a wimp and get on with it? image

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    imageUsual advice is to stop if it's chesty or if you feel unwell ... but not to worry too much if it's just a mild nose/head cold. (nb I am not a clinical Dr., so if you die it's your own fault!image).

  • Tonights 10 miler at 80% (160 bpm) was another hard run. My heart rate settled down after the first couple of miles to 7:02 m/m which was 10 seconds or so quicker than last weeks run, maybe as a result of the extra weeks recovery after Chester marathon?

    Heart rate and pace was pretty solid up until mile 6 when the HRM went haywire and started giving out stupidly high numbers. I tried to just maintain the pace/ effort level but lost a bit without the HRM and my pace dropped to 7:10 until I "manned up" for the last mile.

    As Dr Dan has said, these runs have got to be great training for half marathons but 1 a week will be enough for me for a while yet!


  • The sub-LT sessions are pretty good HM training sessions, so if I can get back to slotting two of these in per week, I'll be happy enough.

     Dr Dans words are good and it's the way I am playing it about early Feb, fingers x'ed  
  • Thanks for the welcomes and the advice, I usual run 4/5 days a week, in september preparing for the 10k and HM it was 5.

    I was out with jog scotland group tonight, I took the 3/4 mile group and as a result it was difficult to maintain a constant pace as I had to shuttle up and down the group.

    40 mins 10:48avg pace 150bpm

    I was mainly in the high 140's apart from the shuttling efforts which pushed it up a little, given this I've got a lot of work ahead to get the heart rate down to 130



  • StewartC - I started on HADD base phase 9 weeks ago and have started to see improvements. I'm aiming for a HM in March - I run 4 times a week, each run over one hour long. Initially my pace and HR was all over the place during the first 3 weeks. Now it has stabilised and I can keep to 70% - 75% throughout the run (8 miles max at moment - 25 miles per week) and feel very comfortable afterwards. I'm going to put some more weeks in at this level to ensure I have a decent platform to work from. My avg pace started at 11:25 and has recently changed to 11:05 so I know its working - I just need to put more miles in at this phase.

  • Did 10 miles at 139 BPM (70%) in average of 8:11 m/m. Pace and heartrate was a little erratic because of the high wind. Getting pushed by the wind was getting me 7:50 m/m for the same heartrate that was getting me 8:25 running into the wind.

  • Well I have thought about how I am going to go about this and this is it.

    I work in miles as it is how my brain works!!"!!


    Mon           6 @ 70%

    Tues          6 @ 70%

    Weds       10 @ 80%

    Thurs         6@ 70%

    Fri              10 @ 75%

    Sat             Rest

    Sun           15 @ 70%

    My main target it to do another 50 mile ultra in May so will increase the Sunday and Monday runs so I am getting good Back to Back miles in at a slow pace.

    What do you think?

  • BD2000, sounds like you're progressing along nicely, is all your running @ 70%-75%? when do you think you'll be ready for the next phase of the plan?

    Gaz, wow I would be happy with that pace in a 5k never mind an easy 10 miler.

    Spen, what sort of weekly mileage are you hope to work up too?

    Went out for my 90 mins @ 70%, my first real attempt at trying to keep the heart rate down, boy it was tough, all the way round I just wanted to up the pace, but I stayed the course and resisted the urge.

    1.  11:23  131avg  158max

    2.  11:50  137avg  151max

    3.  11:44  143avg  154max

    4.  12:04  146avg  152max (into stiff wind along river)

    5.  11:13  145avg  153max

    6.  11:38  147avg  153max

    7.  11:28  148avg  152max

    8.  11:04  153avg  159max

    Totals for the run, 1:32:41 11:32mm 144avg

  • I hope to get up to 70-80 miles as would like to do a 100 miler in 2014!

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Looks like a very sensible HADD plan S71.

    I have abandoned Drs orders and completed my 1st run for just over 1 week tonight. I couldn't manage 1 more week of recovery / getting fat!

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    x-post - not sure I can say that a 100 miler is sensible though!

  • I like the long nicely hurting runs!  Did North Downs Way 50 last year and ran with someone else.  Will do it on my own next time as it held me back.

  • Looks good spen.

    Stewart, well done and well disciplined.

    Last run for 12 days for me at lunch, 8.3miles at 7.24 pace.

    In Manchester airport travel inn now. Flying tomora at 9.

    Happy training everyone, will be offline till Sunday 18th
  • spen71 wrote (see)

    Well I have thought about how I am going to go about this and this is it.

    I work in miles as it is how my brain works!!"!!


    Mon           6 @ 70%

    Tues          10 @ 80%

    Weds        6 @ 70%

    Thurs         6@ 70%

    Fri              10 @ 75%

    Sat             Rest

    Sun           15 @ 70%


    Hi spen71,

    I like the plan you have assembled. See the underlined above. I would consider moving the 80% earlier in the week. Even though you do your long run Sunday, it's at 70% and you should be recovered nicely by Tuesday. Hit the 80% that day and then have 2 nice 70% runs to recover before you do the slightly longer 75% run on Friday. I found I needed more rest after the 80% as opposed to the long run at say 70 to 75%. This would also open up Friday to be a second 80% effort if you wanted to add that in later. If not, I can defenitely see it they way you outline if Sunday/Monday begin evolving into much longer efforts.

    Good luck getting ready for that awesome distance. All my future overuse injuries cry out in anticipation at the thought of that type of mileageimage.

    Took 2 days off before today's run. Was 30 and windy and the legs still felt a bit sluggish so I cut it at 8 miles. We'll see how the next one goes...

  • Stewart: Nice run, glad I'm not the only one who had trouble with the weather today!image

    Spen: Plan looks good. As VT says though, it'd be nice to get that 80% run out of the way early in the week.

    Brian: Have a nice break.image

    Keir: I think the Docs can be over cautious on running injuries, its an easy call for them to say "stop running for xx weeks" rather tell you that you might be able to ease yourself in earlier. Good Luck. 

    VT: Good luck with the next outing.

    BTW Spen which 100 miler are you doing? I've just entered the Ladybower 50 in Sept which will my first ultra. Any tips for a newbie?

  • Thanks for the comments.   I like to keep it like that for the sole purpose of building back to backs up.


    Gaz -   Last year I did Northants 35 miles and North Downs Way 50 miles.   I also did 8 marathons at a slowish pace.   I used these as long training runs.   Im not sure what the lLadblower is like but spend time in the hills and practice run the flats and downs and walking the ups.   I may do that one myself yet.


  • StewartC - all running done at 70%-75% at the moment. I'm looking for an improvement in pace at this level over 8 to 10 miles before moving up to 80%. I'm hoping the next 4 - 6 weeks might show this.

    If it does it gives me a good 10 weeks then to move up a gear in preparation for March.

    From listening to people on the thread for people like me who are not as aerobically fit as they could be, the 'Base Phase' is very important.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Nice training folks.image

    Spen - I also work in miles and your week looks pretty similar to what I have done before, except I tend to do what VTr  suggested (and what Hadd outlines for Joe) and do the subLT sessions on Tues and Fri. The sub-LT sessions are key (but tough) and I think that a day recovery would not be enough for me to get the most out of the second sub-LT session ... and it also allows a longer run on a Thursday so you can get in a "mid-week long".

    Yesterday's attempt at 2 x 2.08M @10KP went a bit wrong when I did it at 5KPimage. First rep was okay ... second one ended at 1.8M with a stitch from hell. Third rep was done at MP as there was no way I could do more. Still, I think it was good to hit some 5KP ... 10 days until the 10K race now and that was my last hard session. I'll do some 5KP and 10KP early next week, to keep the leg turn-over going, but it will be limited in distance.

    After the race, I'll be back to Hadding ...

    ... plan up until the "Brass Monkey" HM in late Jan is to do a 62 mile week, with some run commuting 3 days a week and the two subLT sessions at lunchtimes (it's not HM preparation but I think it will get me through ... the priority is base):

    Mon: 2x 5M at 70%
    Tues: 10M, with 8.3M at 82%
    Wed: 2x 5.3M at 70%
    Thurs: 2x 5M at 70%
    Fri: 10M, with 8.3M at 82%
    Sat: rest
    Sun: hilly 11.6M at 70% (extend the distance in January, if all is going well).

    The double run-commuting will be a new approach but I think it might work - we shall see. It's not going to be rigid - I'm sure there will be days when I'll drive in and do a single run instead etc. But I needs a plan...

    After that, I'll replace one sub-LT session with something faster involving 10M/10K pace ... target is Snake Lane 10M in late Feb and Bradford 10K in March. All these will be "B" races ... the main "A" target is Leeds HM in May (not a fast course but one I'd like to nail).


  • Hi all

    Not posted for a bit, but apart from 2 track sessions a week I've been doing just 70%max running each day and where at first it ment going round at 8:30 pace i'm somehow going out and returning with paces averaging between 7:34 and 7:44min/mile. Cant believe the improvent. Tempted to lower the intensity slightly if the pace speeds up to much or just do some of the running at 65% an see how that helps.
  • Thanks for the input.   I would like the plan to look like this in New year as I do the miles required for a ultra.

    Mon           14 @ 70%

    Tues          6 @ 70%

    Weds       10 @ 80%

    Thurs         6@ 70%

    Fri              10 @ 75%

    Sat             Rest

    Sun           20 @ 70%

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