HADD training plan

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  • Gaz0 congrats on the huge pb. Get what you deserve at this game, and obviously you have trained smart.

    spen71, what are the dodgy links you're posting??????

    I agree with Roy, whatever type of training you are doing, the majority of it should be 75% or less. 

    Got out for 6miles today, slow and not so easy. 8 weeks HM training starts tomorrow, with a gym visit before work. 

    JB, BM is earlier than you think!

  • Cheers guys. All done off slow runs except for 2 weeks of Hadd 85% running which I can't seeing have made that much difference. Nice to see improvement esp. if you arn't doing much running near race pace as per the Hadd program. Very reassuring.

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    Gaz - i'm not surprised there's no 85% next week image cracking run, 9 seconds to aim for next time image

    Brian - hope you had a good break

    Average 50M per week over the last 4 weeks and feeling good so i'm very happy with that. Long run was 17M this morning, my biggest so far.

    Got my eye on a 10M race on 2nd Dec so i think i'll do about 45 next week ( maybe cut back on the long run ? ) and put in a sub LT run to see where i am. Then the week after will be my easier week with the race on Sunday.

    How does that sound ?  

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Fantastic result Gaz. That is a gutting time if that is the fastest you plan to ever go, but as a target / goal that is a fantastic time. It means that you continue wanting more. Great work on knocking minutes off your time. Your body deserves an easy week after that performance.

    Good luck on the recovery JB

    Happy to report my first full calendar week of HADD and also my first 50m week since Jan image

    As I apreciated reading others training stats, here are mine:

    Mon - 5m 45min @ 70%

    Tue - 11m 90min @ 74%

    Wed - 5m 45min @ 70%

    Thur - 14m 2hr @ 75% (hilly)

    Fri - 5m 45min @ 70%

    Sat 10m 90min @ 75% (hilly off rd)

    Sun - Marshal club race.

    Re-reading the HADD - Joe advice, I think I might replace one of those 90min 75% with an 80% run this week.

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    x-post - Welcome back Brian.

    Sounds like a good idea Mace. Although long runs are probably the most beneficial of all for the marathon, you don't need to be knocking out 17m every weekend. Also it's good to have some occassional races to maintain interest this time of yr. Will you run to pace / HR / feel?

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    Keir - nice training. The plan with the long runs was to build them up gradually over the last month with the mileage so that when i get to mara training the 20's won't be such a big step up.

    Plan is to run to pace based on sub LT run and not look at HR at all. Last sub LT was a couple of months back so i'm looking forward to seeing what i can do now.

  • Go for it Mace... An excellent marker for you leading into new year formal training image



    Nice. First week Keir too...
  • I have posted a dodgy link?  Have i?  Where??????

  • That's weird! When I last looked at the Fred, the words toothpaste and programme were hyperlinks to strange websites. They appear ok now on my phone!
  • Must be jetlag
  • Oh   Never done any hyperlinks!   Would not know how to! LOL

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    GazOC - if it makes you feel any better, my HM PB is 1:30:06.

    Well, almost ready to restart Hadding in earnest ... 40:27 yesterday at the Abbey Dash 10K. Quite happy given the poor mileage and lack of consistency - I'd given up on sub-40 a couple of weeks back as my 5K times were not giving me any indication that it was on. So sub-41 became the more realistic target ... so sub-40:30 was a nice surprise, especially since WAVA suggests it's my best run ever! Just need to recover and then it's Hadd time. image

  • DrDan, Good performance at AD. Recover well.

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    JB hope the recovery goes ok

    Gaz fantastic PB !!

    Mace well done on the long run and the mileage

    DD great race!

    Keir thanks for posting the week's stats - it's good to see what others are up to

    Hi Brian, AGF, Spen, Roy...

    --

    I had to stop training again - knee still not right.  A few days on the roller awaits...

  • Trying to sort out just what is too much cardiac drift / increase in pace on the long slow run. All my training at the moment is in the Base Phase so I'm always in the 70% to 74% zone. So my stats for my longer run are below and although I want to add another 3 or 4 weeks of base phase I'm trying to find out if at this stage the pace vs my HR towards the end of the run is at an acceptable level given a certain allowance for cardiac drift (for instance what is an acceptable drop in pace for the same heart rate allowing for that drift)? All comments welcome.

    Mile    Av%max HR  Pace change   Pace vs average
    2             74%                  +14s                 -21s
    3             74%                  +20s                 -1s
    4             73%                  +7s                   +5s
    5             73%                  +2s                   +7s
    6             74%                  -6s                    +1s
    7             74%                  +8s                   +9s
    8             74%                  +3s                   +12s
    9             74%                  +3s                   +16s

    At face value the figures look OK but the last 2 miles saw a drop in pace of 2% versus my average pace for the whole run - so my question is -"is that an 'acceptable' loss in pace for HADD training given that the HR was stable at 74%?

  • Gaz - great job on the Conway half (time in my dreams)image

    Brian - welcome back

    Keir - nice stats

    Dr Dan - welcome back to HADD (you know it makes sense)image

  • Hi All,

    I was hoping for your advice/assistance.

    I have entered the Manchester Marathon (28 April 2013), and have 23 weeks to train for it.

    I have so far undertaken 2 weeks HADD training having done the Preston Marathon at the end of October. 

    I am wondering how best to train for the marathon. I have considered doing either 6/8 weeks HADD training  followed by a 16/18 week marathon programme or Hadding it all the way to the marathon. 

    The P&D 18 week marathon schedule appear to tie in with the HADD philosophy quite well. I am thinking of following the P&D plan, but incorporating 2 70mins@80% workouts into the schedule, possibly in place of the midweek longer runs.

    My plan would be to do 4 weeks with runs at 70-75%, then slowly incorporate one 70mins@80% workout and once comfortable doing that slowly incorporate a second 80% run. I would do the longs runs detailed in P&D plan and also the speedwork which appeals to me as it comes in the last 6 weeks of training.

    My question is would I be better sticking to the P&D plan and running the majority of my runs in the 70-75% bracket or would I get more from Hadding it to the marathon and doing the 2 x 70 mins@80%

  • preston666, Welcome!

    Have you done marathons before? How do your pb's compare across distances? My guess is that the answer to your question depends upon your background to some extent.

     

  • BD2000, I find your stats a little hard to read. Can you give the miles and splits instead? Is it a flat, out and back course you use?

  • Hi Brian,

    I have run 6 marathons over the past 10 years. I recently did Preston which was my first for 5 years. I have run regularly for last 10 years. My cycle is usually train for a marathon, then after marathon carry on running, but without purpose, so lose fitness and have to bascially start from scratch again. This time intention is to maintain and improve fitness.

    I averaged about 50/55 miles a week training for Preston, did about 6 months training. Aim was to run at 8.15/8.20 pace. Did this in training in 10 mile runs and found it easy, but during race was ok for first 10 miles then pace slowed to 8.53.

    My PB are

    5km - 22 mins

    10km - 46:20 mins

    10 miles - 1hr 19 30 secs

    1/2 marathon - 1hr 44:30

    Marathon - 3hrs 53

  • preston666, You are an experienced marathoner, and obviously have quite a few miles under your belt. I think you are a candidate for Hadd although your conversion is not too bad. I would suggest Hadd all the way. But then you say you like speedwork, so I wouldn't say don't do it because the running should always be enjoyed even at the cost of improvement (hopefully not injury).

    My plan for you would be something like:

    5 weeks up to 75%

    5 weeks 1 x 70mins@80%

    5 weeks 1 x 70mins@83%

    5 weeks 1 x 70mins@83% + 1 speed session

    3 weeks Taper

    The variations on this (dependant upon how you cope/feel) would be to build in 2 runs at 80%, prior to moving up to 83%, and the speedwork.

    At your level and experience though, I wouldn't bet my house on you gaining better results using Hadd for this one. But I'm fairly sure that in the long term you would benefit from ~ 6months (or more) of Hadd stuff.

  • preston, incidentally, how many long runs (and how far) do you normally do, and what format do they take?

  • Brian - thanks for looking at these - this is after 11 wks base phase (1 wk off with cold). Course is out and back with a couple of small inclines. Average pace is consistently 20 secs better than first few weeks. I was hoping you wouldn't ask for splits as my pace is really slow and feels a bit embarrasing!!image Best HM av pace is 9:40 (June this year - was not HADDing then).

    Mile    AvMaxHR     Spilt
    1            71%        10:35
    2            74%        10:49
    3            74%        11:10
    4            73%        11:17
    5            73%        11:19
    6            74%        11:12
    7            74%        11:20
    8            74%        11:24
    9            74%        11:27

  • Brain, thanks very much for the feedback it is much appreciated.

    I see HADD as a having a long term benefit and so not expecting dramtic results overnight. I am already enjoying going out and running to hr and time, rather than miles and pace, and like the fact that I feel fresh for every run.

    I think i am going to follow your plan and maybe see how I go with the variation of 2 runs at 80%. I might also not do speedwork and jsut fully HADD all the way. Will keep you upto date on weekly plan and progress for your feedback if that is ok.

      

  • The good news is that Im going to be running again tomorrow!!!!!!!!!11

  • BD.

    hope you dont mind me sticking my nose in.

    The speed you run  is not important at this stage, what is, is the fade off that you are getting, almost a min a mile over the distance.

    Thats what I would work at for the next few weeks/ months,just think consistency

    once the pace/ HR is stable then think about moving HR up, but only then.

    P.S. all advice can be totally ignored

  • Brian, I did 6 20 mile plus long runs, a couple of these were progressive runs (10 miles slow and 10 miles at marathon pace). Did plenty of 15mile plus long runs. Also did runs of up to 10 miles during the week. I also did tempo/speedwork as runners world schedule, which in hindsight I think I would have been better doing long runs during the week.

    Planning to initially do 2hr long run building up to 2hrs 30 mins after 4/6 weeks, a start with a long run of 90 minutes plus during week.

  • Preston - what exactly are you expecting from a FM? - you suggest that 3:38 was your target but to be absolutely blunt I see nothing to base that on. Not one of your times (which are well linked relative to each other ) suggests much less than 4:00 and therefore I suggest that the 3:53 you achieved was actually quite good.

    Therefore there are several options - work at the shorter distances to improve them  - and that would be the 10M and the HM in particular - or Hadd with the intention of building up stamina and endurance. Ask yourself why the pace was hard after 10 miles and it dropped to 8:53 pace and that will tell you where you should be putting the effort in.

  • Hi JB, which calculator do you use?

    preston, These are conversions based on McMillan. The times in brackets are the equivalent marathon times:

    5km - 22 mins (3:34)  

    10km - 46:20 mins (3:37)  

    10 miles - 1hr 19 30 secs (3:43)  

    1/2 marathon - 1hr 44:30 (3:39)

    So even though your not far out, you can expect a little more out of your marathon, well trained.

  • Well said Roy.

    BD2000, none of us are going to win a race. We are all mid pack runners. Generally when we race, we race against the clock. We are on here sharing experiences and knowledge because in our own way we are all competitive. We all want to better ourselves as runners, and run the fastest we can and beat our personal bests.

    The way I see it (I'm no expert and this is just my opinion) is we all have a unique physiology, which determines our potential. Call it natural ability if you like. And we are all trying to achieve our potential from what nature gave us.

    So the numbers in themselves don't mean a great deal. As Roy says we are all aiming to improve those numbers as best we can. That is the importance of the numbers, they are a benchmark only.

    A few of the lhe limiting factors are in no particular order:

    1. physiology

    2. time

    3. priority

    4. knowledge

    As well as luck.

    So we need to maximise these factors to get the best results possible.

    Don't ever be embarrassed about your numbers. Infact be proud of them. Try not to use the dreaded j-word. You are a runner, which separates you from the sedentary world.

     

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