HADD training plan



  • Hi guys! Sorry I dropped of the radar for a bit. Busy at work and at home. It's great to see the forum so much alive and kicking image

    Bit of bad news: I fell yesterday (roadworks barrier was kind of in the way) and wounded my pride, hands and knees and completely killed my Garmin (screen broke). Ouch. Garmin will swap the broken one for the newer model at around half price so that won't set me back too badly there. Left knee is a bit worrying. It felt fine this morning (and I nearly attempted a little run) but I'm glad I didn't. Been sitting at my desk all morning and now it's stiff and sore again. I should really be on my sofa with feet up and an ice pack on... image

    Enjoy your running! You never know when the bench hits image

  • mace, improvement is ok, and you are correct, the more regularly you do the sub-lt runs, the better the improvement. Is the 83% run your only effort of the week, not counting the long run of course? If not, be careful to back off if necessary. I would assume that you are concentrating on the 1 80%+ run, building up by time?

    VT, You're in a happy place at the moment, hope you keep it that way. As you quite rightly say, the core work (I like to expand on it, and call it strength and conditioning) is the way forward. This will improve your posture, strengthen the important muscles and decrease the likelihood of injury. And of course it will enable you to run more efficiently and therefore fasterimage

    Chick, Bugger! Sh*t happens unfortunately and you never know when it will strike. I tripped on a mooring post on the canal a few years ago, tore my hamstring on the other leg - it cost me a London marathon, and a few months rehab, and since, the related occasional niggles with scar tissue. Probably bruised/inflamed under the kneecap, which will hopefully disappear gradually over the next few days. Plenty of anti-inflammatorys and ice (on your knee, not in your drinksimage).



  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Benched here too. I keep trying to get back too quickly - knee very sore nowimage

    Nice stats Mace!

    Good advice Brian

  • Drinks are a good way to numb the pain, Brian image.

    Oh bugger, Tek. Sorry to hear that. Was that getting back too soon after your marathon? Or increasing miles too quickly? Do you have a good fizz to sort you? Crossing my fingers.

  • Mace - great stats, nice and steady.

    I'm hoping to put a 20min sub-LT into one of my workouts next week and VERY SLOWLY increase the time by 5 mins each week - bearing in mind my slow pace at the moment that will be about 2 miles in the middle of 6 to 8. Slowly does it. Been on Base phase for 13 weeks now and I have 12 weeks left before HM in March. Want to increase work slightly. ANY sign of a niggle and I will hold off.

    Chick / Tek - hang on in there

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    Brian - correct. 50M per week and i'm doing 8M sub LT, the rest is easy

    Keir - yes, once a week. I was doing them once a week in the summer in the build up to a HM at end of Sept. Started them again last week after 4 weeks of 50M easy.

    Tek - bolarks !!! Good luck with it

    Chick - sorry to hear that. Just reminded me i swerved to avoid somebody on a pathway this morning and nearly ended up in a ditch image


  • Brian- to be honesty I'm wondering now weather I may just be better having recovery runs based on pace. I'm pretty good in terms of being disciplined with myself pace/hr wise so tomorrow for example I may just do my normal days mileage but no faster than 8min/mile or 65%. Whichever comes first.

    GazOC- cheers, on 52mile so far this week.

    Ashman- sounds like your having same thoughts as I had when I first started hadding, I was going along at 8min+ pace an questioning what I'm doing. TAKE NOTE: I'm glad as hell I kept on with it though because 70% originally got me 8min+, now its between 7:00-7:20pace mostly for same effort. PROGRESS image

    Nightnurse- sounds your having issue that I had a couple of weeks ago when I had to keep picking up the pace slightly to maintain the effort. You must be improving I guessimage
  • Mace- good effort there on the LT run I had another go at one today aswell. I'm interested to see how yourself and others get on with these LT runs.

    I found my Lactate threshold run a bit tougher this week with me legs feeling slightly battered so (thought i'd get the customary excuse in) pace averaged 6:22 compared to last weeks 6:13 although this week I did 60mins-9.4mile image

    Split Summary??


    1) - 1m - 6:07(6:07/m) - 154bpm avge - 163bpm max - 117cal??

    2) - 1m - 6:16(6:16/m) - 161bpm avge - 165bpm max - 120cal??

    3) - 1m - 6:14(6:14/m) - 160bpm avge - 163bpm max - 119cal??

    4) - 1m - 6:18(6:18/m) - 159bpm avge - 161bpm max - 119cal??

    5) - 1m - 6:33(6:33/m) - 160bpm avge - 162bpm max - 121cal??

    6) - 1m - 6:19(6:19/m) - 159bpm avge - 164bpm max - 120cal??

    7) - 1m - 6:30(6:30/m) - 159bpm avge - 162bpm max - 121cal??

    8) - 1m - 6:36(6:36/m) - 158bpm avge - 163bpm max - 121cal??

    9) - 1m - 6:33(6:33/m) - 159bpm avge - 161bpm max - 121cal??

    10) - 0.41m - 2:39(6:23/m) - 161bpm avge - 164bpm max - 50cal
  • Oh I also had a 2 an a bit mile warm up/down to loosen legs off. So totalled 13.76mile in about 1:34. Well happy to be doing sessions like that.

    Keep hadding away people.
  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    AtD - the pace there is awesome, but as we all know, that is just relative. The thing which is really impressive for me is to see the consistency of the avge HR and also how close max is at every split (other than the first, for obvious reasons). To peak at 1 -2% above ave HR for each mile is a really impressive even pacing of effort. 

  • Hi all,

    wow this thread moves along very quickly.

    In truth I'm struggling to keep my pace down, I feel really comfortable running at around 10-10:30 pace but the heart rate is up in the 150's 80+%.

    Tonight I went out for a 90 minute run and decided not to check the heart rate or pace and just run on feel, see below for stats.

    Split Time   Avg Moving  Pace Avg  HR  Max HR

    1                10:44.80      10:32:00 152   169

    2                10:16.00      10:16:00 147   153

    3                10:08.30      10:09:00 150   158

    4                10:15.50      10:17:00 150   154

    5                10:04.20      10:00:00 154   171

    6                10:28.50      10:23:00 154   158

    7                10:28.90      10:22:00 154   156

    8                10:15.00      10:09:00 154   159

    9                10:45.50      10:39:00 153   160

    10              01:29.90       10:04:00 154   156

    Summary   01:34:57.00   10:18:00 152   171

    as you can see from above this is too high for Hadding, is there any benefit running at this pace? if I keep running at this pace will the HR come down eventually so I can then start hadding properly.

    your thoughts and views will be greatly appreciated.

  •  Hi StewartC, Welcome. It seems to me that you have a decision to make.

    1. Do you want to improve in the most efficient manner, with the least likelihood of injury?

    2. Do you want to continue enjoying your running at the same (or similar) pace?

    I am guessing that the answer is no. 1. Read back if you haven't already, as this will explain the problems that arise when starting out with HR training.

    The bottom line (and very simply) is that to make the maximal aerobic improvement, it is better and safer to carry out the majority of your runs between 70 and 75% until you see improvement in pace and drift.

  • I stumbled upon this on the net recently. It's another angle on the Hadd approach, and makes for interesting reading.



  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Stewart - are you certain you have correctly calculated your max HR? 

    I'll check the link later Brian. I've got lots of meetings later on so it will give me something to do! image

    Child no. 3 woke at 4.15am and I took the opportunity to 'reassess' the wisdom of my 5.30 run. Decided rest would be best. image

    It's cold out there today.

  • Keir, Isn't that whats called natures alarm clock? Come on... man-up!image

  • 8miles incl 20mins tempo today for me. Target was 6:06 pace. My legs let me down a little to come in at 6:20 pace. Got to start somewhere......

  • Brian,

    Thanks for that link. Very interesting with some good resources. My take from reading is that I should really consider my running form. I'm the guy that just runs. I do try to stay relaxed during the runs and maintain good posture, but beyond that how I go down hills, etc, is just how I do it. The idea of finishing a marathon and not being sore is attractiveimage. Not sure I could run so perfect as to acheive that though.

    The other thing I noticed is that by mafftone or one of the other calculations, my aerobic upper limit would be 146 (mafftone) or even low 150s. My my MaxHR is 200 so I have locked my range from 140 (70%) to 150 (75%). I have been trying to keep most runs either right at or below 140 (which is finally possible again on most days) and then to move up to 145-148 for my slightly harder efforts during this pre-ILTHR phase (read not burning the cake stage).

    I'm off for my midday run.

  • VT, I wouldn't get hung up on form. I think that if we were at the sharp end then focussing on form would be worth the effort and associated pain in changing the way we run. But as we are not making a living from it and, are probably a little long in the tooth for fundamental change, if I were you I would just think "run tall". As with cricket, any technical aspect is simpler to address if there is only one (or at the very most 2) things to think about. If you tried to remember them all you would only confuse the issue and end up losing the will. I would suggest that posture (engaging abs) is as far as we should go, and thus running tall is maybe the best thing to think about enabling us to improve posture. I know someone who is trying to improve form at the moment, and he is really struggling with tight hamstrings. He is pretty flat-footed and thumps down with a bit of a heel strike.

    How did the run go?


  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    VT - I also found that article interesting and useful but like you found the various measures of the aerobic zone confusing and contradictory. 

    With regard to running form, I do agree with Brian and think that focusing on form is probably more damaging and confusing than good. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! That said, trying to improve 1 aspect at a time isn't too bad an idea. Running tall is a good one. One of my frm faults is 'orangatan arms' - I've always run with my hands below my hips. For the past few months I am really focusing on keping my hands navel height or above, hardly moving my arms and trying to relax in this position. I have found this improves my cadence, lowers my stride length and means I am heel striking much less. It has taken several months, but I am just about starting to find I am catching my knuckles draggin on the ground much less and keeping this form for longer without thinking about it. 

  • Lots of good running going on.

    Andy: you are my role model image. I wanna be like you and go from 9mm to 8s and possibly 7s image

    Stewart: like the others said - 70 or 75% runs are the way to go when starting with HR training. Be prepared for weeks and weeks of veeery slow runs. But it will pay off in the end and the improvement will come. Patience.

    Running form. Oops image. Mine is pretty rubbish especially when I get tired. My core goes entirely and I bend over in the middle... I really have to focus to maintain proper form but gosh, it's hard work.

    On the upside: knee pain has gone image. The bruise is still massive but it doesn't hurt anymore so I will attempt a short run tomorrow and perhaps a longer one on Sunday and then resume full training as of Monday. Last week was a 54 mile one and that's where I wanna be back at ...

  • Great news Chick. Relief eh?

    As long as I'm not getting any injuries (theres fate well and truly tempted!) I'm loathe to mess with my running form. As Brian says mostly we're not trying to shave a couple of seconds off a 10K PB, just hoping for steady improvment while not getting injured. 

  • Gaz, As Keir says "if it aint broke...".

    Good news Chick, take it easy for 2 or 3 days.

    Recovery 7.3 miles. Cold and sunny. Bit icy on the towpath, but easily negotiable. Hoping to get out for 90-100mins tomorrow morning. Have a good weekend everybody.


  • I've got 5-6 easy miles planned for this evening, day off tomorrow and then Wrexham 10K on Sunday to take me just over 60 miles for the week.

    I've had a bit of a cold all week thats just clearing today, the effect on my running times at 70% HR was quite noticeable over the last couple of days and has put around 30 secs a mile on my pace. 

  • Good luck on Sunday Gaz. Hope the lurgy has cleared properly by then.

  • Had a really annoying club run on Wednesday, the leader decided to make it nice and hilly and when I say hilly I mean hilly, remember I live in Devon image, had a couple of nice flat miles were I managed to keep HR nice and steady at 80% for 8-8-15 min miles which is what I hoped but the massive climbs saw it rise to 85-87% and pace drop to 9.30 s..and if you are a club runner you know what the last mile back to club house is like , did that in 7.20 imageno one wants to be last !!! oh well over at least the company and grub in the pub after was worth it . Not sure about the club runs, shall I keep the as one 1 effort of the week for the time being and ignore HR ? I really enjoy them ...I think image

    Back on track today nice easy 15.5 miles in 2 hours 25, max hr 75 % ,ave hr 71% longest run and time on feet for yonks !!! and felt I could have gone further , only just about managed to stay on feet though bloody slippery out there, although I LOVE running in the cold !!


    Chick , take it easy hope the run goes well

    ADT awesome  that is some pace for 70%

    Gaz good luck Sunday with that race at the end of a 60 mile week !!!!

    Brian nice tempo pace !!  off  to read your link now, finding this HR stuff fascinating .

  • This is starting to pay off a bit now

















    Did 9 miles today at 70 % getting a lot better now and noticing my speed coming back, HR improving. 44 miles this week, got Wrexham on Sunday with Gaz that'll be 50 for the week the most i've ever done so happy days...





  • More Stats for Brianimage

    I've been looking back over the last 12 weeks since starting HADD and put together some figures:

    Weeks 1-3 11:31 av pace @71% av

    Weeks 4-6 11:36 av pace @72% av

    Weeks 7-9 11:10 av pace @73% av

    Weeks 10-12 11:06 av pace @73% av

    Steady Eddy is the name of the game - ridiculously slow pace but an improvement in average pace of 25 secs per mile

  • Don't know what the hell happened there ?

  • AM glad you are now convinced , and seeing results

  • Great news BD. Good luck Sunday Ash, wrap up warm!!


    NN, if you enjoy the club runs then I'd keep doing them. 

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