HADD training plan



  •  Spen, awesome news! Very exciting when you can get going again. And just in time for the holidays.

  • StewartC, Seems reasonable. Hopefully the HR will drop for that pace. Is the group running slower or faster?

    AtD, Credit to you, saving up to fund full-time training is a very brave thing to do. You deserve all the success you possibly can get. I am a little concerned though. If you're full-time surely a little gym work isn't out of the question? Doing 100+ miles per week, you are going to be rapidly breaking down muscle. I've never coached elites, but I think maybe you should start to think like one. What do the top guys on the sub-3 thread do, when hitting the high mileage? I would be gutted for you if you were to get an overuse injury at this point.

    Santa, Remember everybody's different. Guidelines suggest that 90% average is not unheard of for 10miles/HM. But of course, this depaends on where your lactate threshold is. And that is the crux of the Hadd training - training below the LT, helping to push it up as far as possible. BTW, I'd like a red ferrari and a 25 year old au pair

    Spen, result!

    VT, Fame at last! And your still talking to us.

  • Brian, the group runs can be quicker it all depends on the group I'm assigned too, last night for example the group was a slow one, 4.6 miles at 11:32mm 142avgHR there was a hill on the route which elevated the heart rate, actually I've notice any sort of incline can push the rate up considerably, hopefully this will also improve over time.

  • hohoho, Brian . Not sure Mrs. Brian will be too keen on the 25 year old au pair image (or the Ferrari for that matter).
    I think you hit the nail on the hadd (pun intended). Those HM heart rates were pre Hadd, so I may surprise myself one fine day and run a half at 90%.

    spen: that's great news image

    VT: that's hilarious! I love those random appearances in the paper.

  • brian should I say brain really, more appropriate lol image

    Thanks for the last post there. You've never coached but you do know the usefull stuff, I ain't ran yet today. First non runing day in 25 days. So am thinking of going an doing some core work in the garage. Another thing I'm fortunate enough with is that I have a really good space for floor/bodyweight exercises + skipping + pull ups and have a weight bench ect so the only thing really is just to get in there. Not running this morning has afforded me the energy to do it.

    Also a club mate gave me a plan to follow (a4 sheet) and its legs core and arms so simple but very effective. Will go now an do level 1 to start, so I can run in the morning rather than hobble.

    thanks again.
  • AtD, you know it makes sense. I "know" somebody who has something inspirational written on the back of the garage door....

  • Popping in my first 80%er tonight - middle 20mins of an hours session.

    I'll let you know tomorrow!

  • Going to do core work more regular from more on. It wasn't that bad the. The plan I have goes from level 1 right up to the dizzy heights of level 11 with DOZENS & DOZENS of pull ups for example. The whole plan is body weight exercises alone just need a pull up bar and a floor. Everyone has a floor lol.

    Wayhay, not sore today either. Win. image

    Brian I've started reading the sub 3 thread about 3 days ago and am not sure who's on what mileage at the moment really an what sort of strength work they do. I'm also a little reluctant to delurk because there having a right good debate about peoples training methods in 80's and how people these days seem to all wamt grants/funding ect, dont wanna get branded lol. Might wait till talk moves on before raising me head in thereimage
  • BD2000 have a good session there.
  • AtD, Yes been reading the debate with interest. But haven't posted for a while. I feel intimidated there for some reason.

    BD2000, Hope the 80%er goes ok. Relax and let it happen.

    Santa, the ferrari is for me, the au pair is for Mrs Bimage


  • hehehe, Brian image

    I'm so rubbish with my core exercises... and you really don't need a fancy gym. I have resistance bands, a yoga mat and a Swiss ball in the spare room at home.... but somehow I manage each time to bypass it in favour of the lounge and the telly image

    Hope your 80% sesh goes well, BD.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Evening all. I see this thread has been as active as ever in my absence!image

    Time for me to start the process of building up mileage again! I had 2 weeks of full rest after the Abbey Dash but on Monday I re-started with a double run commute  to/from work (2x5M), repeated it yesterday, and will do it again tomorrow. Not feeling too great so far ... it might be a few weeks before I even think about a sub-LT.

  • santa, Brian to be honest I agree there, a proper gym is a bit redundant if you know the basic idea of press ups, situps, squats an so on.

    Brian I think its just the strong opinions that make it intimidating.

    Point of interest: have you seen the newly released welsh selection standards for the commonwealth games 2014 glasgow. 2:18 the standard is. 5:16 mile pace. Thats like my 5k pb pace. Got me wondering though.
  • HADDing (or my bastardised version of it) is going well, I'd have to say.

    All going well this week should be my first 40mile week, my highest weekly mileage ever. Fingers crossed i've suffered no injuries since i started running again in August, probably due to covering the miles at low intensity. A month or so back I had a wobbly period where I felt really tired, but that was perhaps not enough rest and/or nutrition, but seems to have passed now, and i'm feeling awake, strong, and comfortable on my runs. i've got 2 more full weeks of this type of training before I start the P&D 18 week plan in preparation for the Manchester marathon, so I'm really pleased that the slower running over the last few months seems to have been worthwhile.

  • Saw the PT lady today. Did a full core work session and the sports hernia injury did not flare up. So far, so good. I'll be gradually adding core work each week now. I have been doing one session each week for the past month without problems. Now I'll try several times per week, and if that goes well, we'll start diversifying the exercises and intensity. My goal is to be able to do all core type exercises pain free and then make it a solid staple of my weekly training (and hopefully stay on the road through the race this time).

    Also of note, this past week my runs have been about 20-30 seconds faster per mile at say a 73-75% effort. Good energy too. I think it represents my latest gain. I'm naturally pushing the pace without added effort.


  • Had (excuse the pun ) a good club run last night average HR 79% average pace 8.20s much flatter and more consistent in pace than last week apart from that usual last mile to the club house, 7.8 miles in 65 mins so I will take that as this weeks 80% run.

    13.5 miles in 2.06 today average HR 67 % which is really low but it was freezing and I run well when its cold..

    Chick I agree you dont need fancy gyms for core work, but I am more likley to do it if I have paid and have to go.I have trid doing sit ups and planks while watching Corrie and Eastenders but it just dont work,,image my swiss ball is covered in dust behind the sofa !!

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Just read back. Can only remember some poor HADD puns from Santa and NN and Brian wanting a 25yr old au pair and putting inspirational statements on his garage door. Surely you could find a picture of an inspirational au pair Brian?

    I entered the sub 3 thread a few times, but don't find myself on the same wave length conversationally. I followed a bit, but got bored with that. If you're fast and have some specific questions, it is probably one of the best places to get some suggested answers, but I think it helps if you have been around for at least a week or so first.

    AtD - Although sub 2.18 sounds crazy, if you have the time, lack of commitments, focus and run consistent mileage without injury, it is a real possibility. A guy 2 villages along from me ran his first marathon in 2.16 at VLM this year and represented the UK at Berlin in Sept. The CW games are his next target. He runs by himself and between 80-100mpw, but nothing surprising session wise. Endurance sports don't seem to have a secret formula - just do lots of it, over and over again.

    Tummy bugs and the resulting smelly runny brown stuff have invaided out house. Sick baby, toddler, wife and myself although the 6yr old appears immune (as always).

  • hi guys did a hour and a half run on Wednesday night found it tough to keep the heart rate down, I'm finding it difficult to relax because I'm constantly worried about the pace/HR is this normal when starting out?

    for those that like stats here they are.



  • Keir, that sounds abosutely awful. Hope you guys recover soon. Does the 6 year old know how to cook and do laundry?image

  • Keir..what a nightmare image hope you all feel better soon.

    Stewart how long have you been 'Hadding' ? and are you sure you have worked out your max properly ? apologies if you have already answered that somewhere.

  • First attempt at 80% run - kept it easy by only doing the middle 2 miles at 80%. Felt good - felt like I could have done more but wanted to put this down as a marker.

    Distance    Split time    Avg. HR
    1.00    11:12    135 (74%)
    2.00    11:05    138 (75%)
    3.00    9:59    146 (80%)
    4.00    9:54    147 (80%)
    5.00    11:28    138 (75%)
    5.60    6:41    138 (75%)

    Brian (and anyone else) - would like you thoughts on increasing the time by 7-10 mins each week at the 80% mark (once a week) - that would get me up the hour at 80% within another 4-5 weeks. I have HM in March (12 weeks) with a week to 10 days taper in there. All other ruins will be less than 75% and I'm not confident of speedwork yet. Best HM pace to date is 9:40 - aiming to get to 9:00


  • StewartC - very normal. I strapped a new watch on 2 weeks ago and I was so anxious about it my HR was all over the placeimage. Settled down now. Eventually you will find HADDing is such a relaxing way of running you'll wonder what all the fuss was about at the beginningimage. The most satisfying thing for me was beating the desire to run faster and thinking this was not working - well it does!

  • NN, 80%er and a 2hr run back-to-back is good going.

    Keir, lol. I do use sticky notes for little reminders. I write things down like target paces, "No sticky buns" and "drink"!!! Hope the lurgy doesn't wipe you out. If your not 100% stick to short and easy.

    Stewart, what BD200 said. Relaxation is the key - but it's not always easy given the stress of normal life. You will get the odd "bad" run where the HR is elevated, there will be a reason for it: stress, lack of sleep, dehydrated being the main ones. The HR is a good way of knowing whther you are coming down with something too. Your resting HR tends to be up ~ 10 beats.

    BD2000, Seems a reasonable plan. I don't like to plan too far ahead, you may want to change things dependant on how you feel. But an increase of 1 mile per 80% run is very sensible. I would also plan to extend it to 70mins, and then when you get near to your HM , I'll give you a cracking session to do 1.5 weeks out.

    I use the foam roller at home and do a few lower abs (knees to chest). Lots of stretching for lower back, hips and hamstrings. But I like to go to the gym as well, and use the swiss ball, kettle bells for dead lifts, dumbbells for lunges and the TRX straps for single leg squats and hamstring curls. I also do full burpees and jumping lunges. Planks, side planks, plank punches, pressup to planks etc. I'm not sure I'd still be running if I hadn't started doing the flexibility, core and S&C stuff.

  • Hi All,

    Night Nurse, I've only been Hadding on my solo runs for a few weeks now, I have recently done a hill sprint session got my HR up to 184, I believe Brian said my max was around 188, 130bpm for 70%, 140% for 75%, I'm finding it difficult running to a pre-determined pace as I normally just run on feel, most of my runs are in the blether zone, but heart rate could be up close to the 140's.

    BD/Brian thanks for the tips I'll try and relax, might just try and ignore the watch tonight and see how it goes

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    NN - lovely 12.5  image

    Chick - like the name image

    Stewart - if you're fussing over HR i'd do exactly that now and again. I found myself in the same position and just decided to ignore HR on the occasional run and go on feel. At the end of the day you have to enjoy it so no point worrying - if you're putting in 90 min runs you're bound to see an improvement - and if the HR is a bit high now so what !! so long as you feel good within yourself and aren't going to pick up an injury it won't be doing any harm i'm sure.

    Looking at your numbers i'd say you started a bit fast so if you'd done 11:30 and 12:00 for the first 2 miles, and hadn't got a bit carried away on mile 5 image , there'd have been less drift and you probably wouldn't have been fighting to keep HR down in the later miles.

    BD - well done on the 80% run

    Brian - reading that lot has knackered me out image how much time a week do you spend on core, flex and strength ? I try to do 3 x 15mins a week consisting of sit ups, press ups, planks, leg raises and recently started single leg squats. Don't go gym though, just do them at home after a run.

  • mace, when I'm training properly (now) I go to the gym Mon and Wed morning before work. A typical session last 70mins:

    4min w-up on rower, powerplate/roller;

    3x(20xknees to side, 4xcentipedes, 20xrussian twists, 15xTRX hamstrings, 15xdead lifts 24kg);

    4mins on bike;

    3x(16 lunges 5kg, 15xswiss ball crunchies, 7 full burpees, 60s plank);

    hamstring, feet, hip flexor and piriformis stretches.


  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    imageBrian. ... take it easy will you!image

    Keir, imagehope things improve soon!

    5M commute run in this morning was tough, despite slow pace.Sure it will settle down once the legs get used to having to do a bit of work again.  I much prefer lunchtime running!

  • Keir image indeed. The vomiting bug is making the rounds in Germany too. Funny, how these things spread all over Europe. A few guys in the office have it and I just spoke to a colleague in our Dusseldorf branch who reported the same

    Stewart: how about setting the Garmin to display distance only and go by feel? I find it helps a great deal and I tend to run pretty consistent splits doing just that. You can check HR when you download it. Go on, you may surprise yourself!

    Brian: eeek - 70mins in the gym doing exercises is not my idea of fun image

    mace: it's seasonal name change thingie that we do over on the sub 3:30 thread to keep with the festive spirit.

    90 mins in the freeeezing cold this morning. Boy, it's mornings like that when I begin to question my sanity and seriously ask myself if it's such a great idea to run a spring marathon ...  on the other hand I felt brilliant after a hot shower and a mug of steaming hot coffee. Not sure, but a run on the treadmill never makes me feel like I achieved something image. It's .... stale somehow...

  • DrDan, I'm with you on that. Hate running first thing in the morning, especially when it's cold.

    9.5 miles at lunch incl 3x(5mins easy, 5mins@MP, 5mins@HMP)

  • Brian it did come back to bite me later in the day/night I did a night shift last night and felt really tired, I do have to juggle things round quite a bit due to my shifts but  will try and avoid an 80% followed by a long run again. And Brian  that is an impressive gym routine

    .Dr Dan I very rarely run in the mornings , the majority of my runs are done late afternoon after sleeping off a shift, the few times I HAVE got up early on a day of and run I hate the first few miles but feel so pleased with myself once its done and I have the rest of the day off

    Stewart all you can do is stick with it, I often had to walk to get HR down, it was annoying taking 1 hour 25 to get my 8 mile route done, now its back down to 70 mins on a good day at the same HR , I was very strict with myself and avoided going to running club too, I had read enough to convince myself it was the way to go.

    BD2000 how very true , I love getting out for those 70% runs now it feels a lovely nice relaxed pace I can even plod up a hill without HR going mad. My pace has gone from 10.45s to around 9s.

    Chick glad you are off the bench good effort getting out in the cold..I actually love it though. As for treadmill running I can get 5 miles done but thats it, I as hoping to get some longer runs done on there but I really dont think I could handle to boredom after all

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