HADD training plan



  • NN good running there. 2hr runs are allways a decent enough effort.

    keir thanks for the support there. Big appreciation for your thoughts which rationalise the commonwealths as possible.

    BD2000 what brian said about 80% runs.

    Brian nice session of 5mins reps there.

    Sulky comment - feel free to pass.

    Went out t'day an had to turn back after 3'ish mins so ended up with a whole 6mins at 8min pace image problem: not exactly shore what the problem is because it feels like the bottom of hamstring, top of calf (back of knee) so decided rather than make it worse I'm going to take saturday an sunday completely off an hopefully start again monday. After 3 high mileage weeks (101, 102 + 108) am sure a week of 38m wont harm.

    planning on just getting fixing the bike up to the turbotrainer if I still have problems on monday.

    Keep going everyone. Some cracking training happening you lot. image
  • Ooops NightNurse cross post.
  • NN,

    it looks as if your HR's %  and pace is the same as mine, what are your times for 5k,10m, half mara times like?

    mine are 21.05, 75mins, and 1.45mins.


  • Mace, Brian, Night Nurse and BD

    thanks for all the advice is is appreciated taking on board what has been said I went out this evening and tried my best to relax and not worry to much about HR, once I got a feel for the pace I wanted to run I just ran. see stats below for 1hour run, just over 5 miles @11:33


     average HR for the run 136 maxHR 147

  • Roy yes looks very close 3.40 mara  1.39 half ( PB) couple years ago but always low 1.40s ...10 mile 75 -78 mins  10k 46.-47 mins ,  never done a 5k image I shy away from 10ks let alone 5ks,

    ATD wow some mileage !!  and healing vibes to you.

  • Are why does the weather allways seem nicer when injured/benched. Decided as I cannot feel any pain I'm going to use the turbo trainer. Might just go for 15 mins at 70%hr so I have a bench mark to go off further down the line.
  • Andy, a few easy days will do you a world of good. Hope the niggles disappear quickly.

    Rest day for me. Had a few sherberts last night - mates birthday.

    Happy weekend everybody!
  • Works "do" last night and feeling a little delicate, might try a run later on though. The weather has been all over the place over the last couple of days.

  • To be fair Brian, its clear I've been on the limit brian because there have been various aches in various muscles so a couple of days with no impact on the bike may do good. Maybe I should even think about regularly cycling to get more hours in if wanted so not going over 100mpw but doing any extra on the bike to get further aerobic base training in. suprised today at the speed I got for 70% (140bpm) was 20-21mph. Although it was starting to slow down slightly towards 20mph.

    It was refreshing to get some different activity in aswell. Enjoyed it really.
  • poor andy image Hope nothing serious with that niggle! You do monster miles ... do you stretch enough? And do you get regular massages? It may be just the thing to save you from breaking down. Just a thought...  your training is very close to what the elites do but they get plenty of physio and SMT to be able to bear the workload.

  • Santa it does't feel odd in anyway when resting but it just felt tight yesterday after 2 undred yards or so, asif i'd run 20odd miles. Couldn't feel it on the bike atall t'day. Going to build the bike sessions up to maintain as much aerobic fitness as possible. I started stretching about a month ago so still working on that one indefinately.

    Also I dont get massages because of the cost and also I'm very rarely injured. This is my first injury/niggle this year.

    Thanks to brian I've started the whole strenth/core work sessions again so doing another session tomorow. So overall it could be alot worse really.

    Thanks everyone for the motivation.
  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    48hrs of sickness and I am a little weaker and a little lighter!

    But all recovered now and did 10.5m @ 70% yesterday and 9.5m @ 70% inc 45min @80% today. My first 80% run felt quite good. All over boggy fields and the downs so hard to keep the HR consistant.

    My P&D plan starts on Monday. I certainly feel so much fitter, comfortable and faster at lower bpm than I did 6 weeks ago and ready to start a proper campaign. But I am starting to have concerns about the LT session. Basically P&D has a 9mile run with 4m @ LT (10m) pace. This would be 90%Max HR for myself. Having completed my first 80% run today HADD would say I am not ready for this. But if I spend the next 6 wks at 80% then another 6 weeks at 85% then I only have 4 more weeks before the taper starts. This is forgetting all of the VO2 (92%) stuff later in the P&D plan. Do I focus on squeezing all the toothpaste up from the tube and risk being well under prepared for my A goal, or do I leave some paste in the tube and jump into the Marathon plan?

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Keir many runners use the 12 week P&D plans as a stand-alone mara plan - so you could do another 6 weeks Hadd with 1 or 2 subLT runs per week before jumping...

    Still benched hereimage...

  • What marathon Keir? As Tek says I tihnk I'll be doing the P&D 12 week plan to enable me to get a better base. Hopefully it'll turn out to be the right decision.

    Badf news Tek. Any improvement at all? 

  • Keir, big decision for any of us that.

    A few questions that hopefully will help you decide:

    1 why did you start hadding ?

    2 how long have you been hadding?

    3 what do you want to achieve from hadding?

    4 do you have a long term plan (5/10 years)?

    5 do you want to eek out every second you can out of your next marathon?

    Hope by answering these questions, your decision will be easier.
  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Gaz - went for a 3m walk (to the pub) and my knee starting aching again - so I think I'm a fair way off running still...

  • Hi Guys,

    2 hour run this morning an out and back along the canal to Dochgarroch, 11 miles on total the last two miles were a little quick, I was bursting for the loo image


     also the heart rate reading from mile 9 dropped off the scale, this has never happened before image


     anyone had a similar experience with their garmin HR monitor

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    VLM for the first time for me Gaz

    12 weeks could be another option Teknik. I will have a look at it. Sorry to hear about the knee. Painful when walking isn't good. 

    Stewart - HRMs sometimes can be 'funny' mwhen close to over or underground electricity sources. A friend has a problem with his Garmin HRM on windy days - it seems to 'blow off his chest' and disconnect itself.

    Brian. wrote (see)
    Keir, big decision for any of us that.
    A few questions that hopefully will help you decide:
    1 why did you start hadding ?
    2 how long have you been hadding?
    3 what do you want to achieve from hadding?
    4 do you have a long term plan (5/10 years)?
    5 do you want to eek out every second you can out of your next marathon?

    Hope by answering these questions, your decision will be easier.

    Thanks for that Brian. Excellent questions. My answers are:

    1. Originally to build a base. When I got into it I also realised how good 70 / 75% runs feel and how much I can ramp up the mileage using this approach.

    2. 5 weeks

    3. Ah, The key question. I guess to achieve my potential over 10m - 26.2m

    4. No. I will be a vet in 2 years, but not sure on a autumn target, let alone one for later on.

    5. Not necessarily every second, but I would like to pb (sub 2.54), ideally sub 2.50. 

    I guess this answers my immediate question. I think I will follow the mileage of the P&D 18 wk plan but drop the LT sessions to 80%. Then either step in to P&D at 12 wks (prepare for a similar neurotic question at the end of Jan!) or just HADD all the way up to VLM and focus on Abingdon instead. Thanks guys. image

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭
    Good plan, Keir. Remember you can nudge the subLT's up if the HR is stable...
  • Keir, I can't fault your approach, plan or reasoning. You're in the same boat as me, and I think I would use a very similar plan as this. Infact I think I cut the mara specific phase to 10 weeks last time, and this worked out fine. As you say, as long as you have a decent base with lots of slow miles and the odd sub lt run, the transition into P&D should be pretty painless.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Glad you're feelign better Keir ...

    Sorry to hear you're still benched Teknic  ...

    ... and you Andy. Actually, your back-of-the-knee niggle is very familiar to me - it's something I get when I'm over-doing things. Good news is that it fades away with some rest.

    Week 1 of winter base done - 38.5 miles (6 x 5M ish and 1x 8.3M). The good news is that I'm getting used to the work-commute doubles. I'd like to first build up to doing this 5 days per week ... then I'lll drop back to 4 days, with one lunchtime sub-LT ... and then to 3 days, with 2 x lunchtime sub-LTs. I'll hopefully do this over January - meanwhile I'll just have to run whenever I can  ...  this week & next will be a bit disrupted as two work-related o/n trips to Colchester and London (I'll bring my kit just in case, but it's never straight-forward). And then it's Xmas and NY - always hard to run when the routine is broken.

  • Good running, Dr. Dan image

    Andy: I hear ya re. the cost thing. But now you are a fulltime athlete it is something you may want to consider ... it's money well spent if it keeps you on the road ...

    Keir: another one to advocate for the 12 week plan. I Hadded for 6 months and then got straight into it. Their tempo runs are a lot less daunting after a good few sub LT runs twice a week! It got me sub 3:30 this year. Something that I never deemed possible when I started running in 2008 image

    Teknik wrote (see)

    Still benched hereimage...

    Bugger Tek. Sorry to hear, mate.

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Thanks Chick...I've binned the plans for Hamburg, as it's only 19 weeks away: I don't want the added pressure of rushing back before the knee's fixed.  Think I'll go for the rather less glamorous Halstead...

  • Makes sense, Tek. You want to start training in one piece and not broken. Halstead is a great little marathon. I did it one year when I still lived in Essex and really liked it. It's more like a club outing, very friendly. Make sure you train on undulating routes though - it's not flat.

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Chick - very true!  I've blown up 3 times on that course - I'm going back to bury some ghostsimage

  • StewartC - I recently have had problems with my Garmin HR monitor. Upgraded to a new Garmin watch and its been all over the place since. Seems to be on REALLY cold days so I'm wondering wether to change battery or not. My Max HR is 183 and I recently had a reading of 230 and an average of 170 for a whole run which I know is not right as it was only 11:15 pace which is under 75% for meimage

    Anyway, moving on - thought I'd do a nice long run on Sunday, I'm sure somewhere in the HADD document it said Saturday night drink 2 beers, 4 wines and 2 ports with coffee to finishimage

    DON'T DO IT! it doesn't work - so I'm finishing work early now and looking forward to my new long run this eveningimage

  • WOW - 100 pages guys and galsimage

    Excellent forum

  • BD2000, I've read that too I'm sure!image

  • Stewart, sometimes get higher readings on my 305, not sure what causes that. Don't think I've ever had a fall like that and for so long. Did you hitch a ride on somebody's pushbike?image

    2hrs yesterday - 10miles hilly then 4miles on the canal at 7:20 pace to finish off. 7 of us from the club, was good to run with company, don't usually at the weekend.

    70mins in the gym this morning, then 8miles incl 8x60s hills at lunchtime. Kept a lid on the effort though, as wanting to do a harder session tomorrow, possibly 6x3mins.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    image nice work Brian ... things are ramping up nicely!image

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