HADD training plan



  • Lots of running getting done!! 

    71 miles for me this week inc. 10 miles at 80% and my longest run since my last marathon, 16 miles in just under 2:08. 

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    I agree NN. I get all sort of flack for 'being too fit' but make any comment about someone being fat or unfit and suddenly I'm being very rude. At the end of the day, I am sure that deep down they are aware that they are lazy and don't like seeing someone who shows them what they should be doing to be healthy.

    It is more mental rather than physical for me VT. I get very moody and irritable if I don't exercise for a few days. What age / subject do you teach? Sounds like the fitness s coming through for you. image

    StewartC wrote (see)

    Brian, I would also like to thank you for your input on this thread, 

    +1. You're training advice continues to be great and keeps me on the straight and narrow Brian. Good LSR there Stewart and nice weekly mileage Santa.

    That is a fantastic weekly mileage Gaz. Always nice when the average works out at more than 10 per day.

    I ran 60 miles last week. Longest was a lumpy 18m on Sunday in 2.28 - 75% ave HR. Very tired afterwards but needed to raleigh up the energy reserves to prepare and host my 4yr olds birthday party in the afternoon. I also did my 80% run after work and before the works Xmas party on Friday. 14m 1.55 inc 3x20min @ 80%. In actual fact on checking the data it appears as if I spent 1.35 between 75 - 80%. Recovery beer never tasted so good!



  • Keir et al, the pleasure is all mine. Honestly, I love talking training especially HR training. I have gathered a good deal of data/knowledge/experience over the years so why not share it? Endurance running is my obsession, even addiction and I don't mind admitting it. The advice is not all one way either. I need keeping in check, and reminders are always useful.

    I love this thread...... keep on keeping on!

  • Good weekend for me - managed to top out the week at 34 miles (lots for me!), was out 5 times during the week and put in 3m at 80% during a normal session.

    Something is starting to happen!! My runs on both Saturday and Sunday were only 70mins each (having put my long run earlier in the week) but both were stable at 74% throughout and my pace on Sunday was a full 30secs per min faster than normal!

    Slight change of tactics on the running - actually ran faster up the inclines letting the HR rise but the recovery at the tops was very quick and so I was able to increase the pace yet keep the average HR below the 75%. The last 2 weeks I have included a small amount of 80% work so perhaps this is also having an effect on the slower runs?

  • This thread continues to be doing well I see, I've been at brothers wedding this weekend so had to run early saturday and late sunday just a short 4mile yesterday though, it felt hard enough. want to get right back up to full training.

    Good luck to those just starting there marathon campains.
  • BD2000, I find that it's generally 2 type of run that tend to move things up a gear:

    1. The long run. The threshold seems to be 2 hours for me.

    2. The 80% effort.

    I think you've been tacling the long runs for a while. The 80% run will help you turn a corner.

    AtD, Good that you are back running again. Take it easy with the build back up.



  • Gaz, Keir. Good weely miles there.

  • Brian, my daily milage over the last few weeks has been quite steady, between 10 and 12 miles most days with a shorter run and a longer 13-14 mile run to end up around 65-70 miles for the week. 

    I'm going to start extending the long run up to 16-20 miles this week, would I be better off adding another short run instead of one of the 10 milers and increasing a mid week run to 14-15 miles? ie. keeping  roughly the same total mileage but running short, long, short, long instead of all medium length runs as I'm doing now?

    Thanks for any advice. 

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    For my 2 pennys worth Gaz - I think for a general base build, what you have done - 10mpd is great. However as a build for a Marathon, you now need to build the resiliance in the legs to cope with running longer. A 20miler is much more tiring than 2 days of 10miles. I think a LSR (approx 20miles) and a MLR (approx 15miles) should now be your priority and do 5miles or so rather than 10miles to allow recovery for the key sessions.

    After base building for the past 6 weeks, my general week looks like:

    1 x 20m LSR

    1 x 15m @ 70 - 75%

    1 x 12m inc 80% (building from 40mins up to 90mins)

    1 x 11m @ 75%

    2 - 3 5m @ 70%

    So some days easier than average, some harder, some shorter and some longer. 

  • Cheers Kier, that was my feeling too. I'll be running similar mileage to you, I'm going to start putting in a 4-5 mile 80% part into one of the runs as well if the legs hold out.

    I've got my marathon at the end of April so I'll probably keep base building until the start of Feb and then hit the P&D plan. I'm hedging my bets a little with the 80% runs as the Hadd BPM figure comes out at 158 while the P&D book calcuates the bottom of my LT threshold as 158 so I aim for 160 on the runs to try and cover both bases.....not entirely sure how sound that logic is though!

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Gaz - Accoring to P&D (p.46) LT is between 82-91% Max HR. However they also say it is the pace you can run flat out for 1hr (p44). This would be approx my 10m PB pace. My ave HR at 10m is 90% and 85% for Marathon, so I know that 80% is too low to stress my LT.

    Rather than jump into 90% MaxHR LT intervals, I plan to phase in P&D from a HADD base. I am going to loosly follow the P&D 18 week plan, replacing all LT runs with 80% runs until the end of Dec. Then I will replace these with 85% intervals (MP) in Jan, the end of which I will switch to the 12 week P&D plan. At this point I should be in a much better postion to run the LT session throughout Feb at pure 90%max - 10m PB pace. That's the theory anyway. image

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    nice name Keir image

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    image I think yours in the best of all I have seen though MC!

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    I gave the old legs the hot n cold treatment after yesterday's 15M

    Sit in a cold bath for 2 mins, hot shower for 30 secs ... repeat a couple of times.

    The cold bath nearly had me in tears

    But the difference to my legs today is noticeable, no stiffness whatsoever. Definitely didn't feel like i needed a rest day when i got up this morning.

  • Sounds like a plan Keir. I wish I new what my HR for a realistic MP was. 10 miles at 80% is a tough training run but races are totally different.

    Sounds like I'm a little below the P&D LT pace then. I'm running them at around 7 m/m whereas I could probably race 10 miles at around 6:45 m/m (I've raced a HM at 6:52) I'll maybe try a few miles at this pace sandwiched in a longer run but it was that type of run I usually struggle with and what was part of which attracted me to Hadd in the first place. 

  • Cold legs - warm heart

  • Some very good running done here.  

    It takes me a couple of minutes to get the name changes sometimes.

    Well 38 miles for me this week.  Leg seems a little stiff so hoping to up the milage to 45 this week and then into Ultra training after new year!

  • Gaz, what Kier said. Spot on matey.

    It's gonna take me a while to come up with a Xmassy name.

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Brian the red nose reindeer?

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    (you are the shining beacon which leads this merry sleigh!) image

  • Cheers Brian.


    Keir what type of MP intervals are you looking at doing. 2 miles on/ 1 mile off? 

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    In weekly order (as part of a 10 - 15m MLR): 4, 5, 7, 8, 10m @ MP

    So not intervals, but blocks of distance at the required pace. If the longer sessions  become too hard I will split them eg 2x4m rather than 8m, but I try not to do this as the benefits arn't as great.

  • Gotcha!

  • Ha, I love it that more people get into the Christmas spirit with the name change image

    Gaz: monster miles! Are you preparing for an ultra or is that normal mileage for you in marathon training?

    BD: yay! I love it when these changes happen.
    Brian. wrote (see)

    BD2000, I find that it's generally 2 type of run that tend to move things up a gear:

    1. The long run. The threshold seems to be 2 hours for me.

    2. The 80% effort.

    I was thinking exactly that the other day - those long runs and 80% runs make all the difference. Very itchy now to get more of those in image. Too bad today is a rest day ...

  • Santa Baby

    Santa Baby chickadeee wrote (see)

    I was thinking exactly that the other day - those long runs and 80% runs make all the difference. Very itchy now to get more of those in image. Too bad today is a rest day ...

    Rest day for me as well - but I'm itching to get out again. In all honesty because my las 2 days were easy I could probably sneak one inimage

  • Both Chick. I like to be over 60 miles a week when my running is going well but I've also got an ultra in September so I'm doing a few back to back longish runs to get myself used to them. Manchester marathon before that though. 

  • BD well done mate glad things are starting to click and you're seeing improvements

    some impressive mileage being done on this thread, I imagine a lot of folks are starting their spring marathon training, P&D seems to be a popular program, and after reading the book I can understand why.

    Santa, I agree the Christmas theme names are great, mine is kinda weak but I could get anything witty to go with Stewart.

    Just over 5 miles tonight for my 60 minute run, I took muttly with me, (her real name is Lucky), so it was a bit of start stop affair for the first half a mile until I could let her of the lead up at the park.

    stats for the run


     5.2 miles @11:30mm 135(72%)

  • Ok. I know it's tacky.....

    Yep, looks like training is really ramping up. Let's try and do it as gradually as possible - don't want any injuries this early in campaigns.

    The MP run is just a progression from the 80% run. Get your 80% run up to max distance first (this is a preset limit, for me it's time, for you it may be distance), then notch up the intensity gradually till you get to your target pace.

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Haha nice one Brianimage

    Back off the bench.  Now off to get my 70% pace back to what it was pre-Frankfurt...

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Good news Tek. 

    How long is the 80% max distance Bri (aka Ding Dong)? Also whe we reach this,  so we add a 2nd 80% session or move up to 83% (or doesn't it matter too much).

    11miles at 74% this morning. 7.59m/m - 1hr 28min. I am noticing that I am able to run faster before the 'slow down HR too high' alarm bleeps on my Garmin.

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