HADD training plan

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  • Brilliant names image

    I was struggling for a festive one for you DDMOB, but you've pulled it out of the hat image

    Tek - is the knee totally ok ?

    8M @ 8:50 @ 71% this morning. Including 10 x 100 strides at the end , YIKES !!! I think i did them ok .....

  • In fact, here are some stats which actually seem to show that I am no faster. image 2m splits. Same route with 5 week time gap

    13 November 2012

    Distance Split pace Avg. HR
    2.00               8:03 133 (70%)
    4.00               7:42 138 (73%)
    6.00               8:01 144 (76%)
    8.00               8:02 145 (77%)
    10.00             8:10 144 (76%)
    11.04             8:15 143 (75%)

    18 December 2012

    Distance Split pace Avg. HR
    2.00               8:10 133 (70%)
    4.00               7:43 142 (75%)
    6.00               8:11 143 (75%)
    8.00               8:04 142 (75%)
    10.00             8:01 142 (75%)
    10.80             7:51 142 (75%)

  • WTKOOA image - December is 3 secs per mile average quicker for half a beat less. Maybe not pulling up any trees but at least it's heading the right way image Also, the HR is more stable so a better run overall i think.

  • Keir, I use 70mins for the 80% run (and the 83% or MP run). I have been known to notch up the last one or 2 MP runs to 12miles, but have never gone above this in training. (I have in a 20mile race). I use 70mins because it sits nicely in my lunchtime. I have 2 hours max for lunch, and this means that with changing and showering I can fit 90mins run time in. This equates to 10mins w-up and c-down, with 70mins effort in the middle which I do as an out and back 35mins. The moving up to 83% or adding the extra run question.... I would say that depends on where you are in your training plan. If I were in mara build-up I would notch up the run till it corresponded with target pace. If I were in base or Hadd mode, I would add another 80% run.

    The HRav for the 2nd run was lower, AND it looks like there was less drift. Also I would guess you were fresher for the November run than you were for todays run.

     

  • Virtual high 5 mace!image

  • Ding Dong and Merry Mace - great minds obviously think alike! Thanks. image Certainly when looking at the mile rather than 2 mile splits they are more stable now. And you are right, I am still tired from recent training volumes. Having relooked at those 2m splits I can see that I am better now then before over the later miles, so I guess endurance has improved. - Thanks guys. Feel a bit better now. 

    Thanks for the 80% advice Ding Dong. 

     

  • wow, those names are getting better and better image

    Did another 80% run this morning but it was miserable, wet and cold and I was rather shit (feet went numb after stepping into a deep puddle of freeeeezing water image).

    Anyway, a little over 11 miles with 10@ 80%. I reckon it makes a difference whether you run well fuelled (like I did on Sunday) or straight out of bed, on empty (like this morning).

  • Santa, more quality miles in the bank. Well done on getting out the door. There are lots of factors that will affect the HR. Fuelling is definitely one of them.

  • Chick - hope you're warm and dry now...

    Keir - thanks

    mace - I can still "feel" the knee from time to time, but I think it's ok to run on...

    Managed 6m in the mud and hills with the club.  Quite a few HR spikes uphill, managed to keep the average at 71%.  Pace for that HR now back to what it was in July...it's going to be a LOONG road back...

     

  • Ding Dong (et al) - question(s) about 80% and my training plan.

    Just into 3rd week of adding an 80% run to my plan (will be 40 mins this week within a 70 min run). Another 4 weeks should (hopefully) see me up to 60 / 70 mins at 80 % once per week. That then leaves me 7 weeks before my HM race. I'm after suggestions as what to do in that 7 weeks bearing in mind I haven't done any speed work and there will be a 8/10 day taper.

  • Tek: I missed your post about being able to run again. That's fab news image

  • BD - To train specifcally over the next 6 weeks (you shouldn't need more than 7days taper) you might need to put HADD aside for some sessions as you have not yet built up to the higher end stuff. Other will be able to advise more about how you can get back on the HADD training after this.

    I ran a surprise 2min HM pb this spring. I put it down to largely running one of these 10k training sessions per week for 6 weeks. I am so convienced that I am replacing the P&D VO2 max @5k pace sessions later in the programme with these right up to the 3 week taper.

  • Keir, Yes I'm on the McMillan emailing list. Got the 10k workout email last year. Tough tough workouts, but if you can get thru them you will hit your target.

    BD, Just mix up the pace a bit really. With 6 weeks to go I would do:

    1. Tempo sessions at target pace (fresh in my mind, cos I just done one!)

    2. Interval session at 5k pace.

    3. Hill sessions.

    But if you can do the McMillan sessions above, with maybe 2 or 3 interval sessions thrown in, you won't be far off!!!

     

  • Anther work out Keir? Theres not enough days in the week for all this stuff!image

    Glad you're back running Tek, good luck.

    Chick, I find with the slower runs I can take few liberties with eating, resting etc but i have to make sure I get everything in order for the 80% runs

    Nice, steady improvements Mace, Keir, BD.

    BD, is the HM your main race? 8-10 days taper is a fair bit of time for a Half...

     

    Good running all!!

     

     

  • Teknik, Best of luck with the comeback. Sounds like you deserve some good luck.

    Did my tempo at lunchtime, on the towpath as normal, light breeze in my face on the way out, a little muddy/slippy in places, but....

    8M incl 25mins tempo (at target HM pace - 6:06):

    Out  12:30  2.03  6:10   164

    Back 12:30 2.07  6:02   170

    4.1 miles @ 6:06  HRav 167

    Getting there..........

     

  • Gaz: I'm really rubbish when it comes to nutrition image. There seem to be so many things that need attention first. E. g. when I come back from a long run I prefer to stretch and have a shower / bath before I even think about eating. And when I get up early midweek I feel too image to face any food. I have to do something about it though coz nutrition is a massive part of the bigger picture. Perhaps I need to get up even earlier and potter about the house, eating a banana or something before attempting my next 80% run. I did that in the summer but that was easier - it was already light when the alarm went off!

    I like that 10k workout plan! How does it fit with Hadding though image, i. e. isn't speedwork squeezing too much toothpaste out at the top?

  • GazOC - thx, HM is main race at moment. Only going by early this year when I took 10 days taper. Realise from most peops comments 7 days should be enough.

    Ding Dong - I still have 11 weeks to go - the 6 weeks was meant to be after my 80% build up. Should I be doing some Tempo, Interval and Hills sooner rather than leave until the 6 weeks? Don't want to lose comfort of injury free HADD training - kinda got used to it. Just need to man up I guess and stop messing aboutimage

  • I have trouble eating until mid morning so I rarely do anything other fan slow recovery runs before early afternoon.

  • Great training going on ... not so sure about the names though.image

    Good to see you're back running Tek!image

    I'm still ticking along ... work and life have been disrupting any routine (and time on RW). Som,e stats at last ... 11.6M (hilly) yesterday at 71% maxHR came out at 8:55/m, which will do for now. Aim is to continue to tick over with consistent 70%-ish running for the rest of the year and then start the sub-LTs in January. I will also need to shed a few poundsimageimage.

  • Chick et al, My opinion fwiw is - if you were to embark upon a P&D mara schedule, an HM plan or a 10k training plan, the Hadd stuff has to be left behind. The specificity of a more traditional schedule trains the anaerobic as well as the aerobic system. Whilst you may be able to fit in medium-long and maybe even long runs which may include 80% sections accidentally or otherwise, it is not necessary or wise to combine these intentionally.

    The Hadd approach is either used to get aerobically fit, as a beginner schedule for a distance race, as base training to precede something more specific or just as enjoyable downtime between schedules/injuries.

     

  • DrDan, Good work! Wrong time of year to lose weight though - good luck with that!

    Even better than mine - Ding Dan Donnelly on High!

     

  • Interesting view Brian. Although I agree with your assessment of when HADD is good, I am not sure it needs to be abandoned. I don’t see the HADD philosophy as purely a base preparation / injury prevention programme.

    I think HADD would be suitable for a marathon, but rather than an 18 week programme the marathon would  a long term goal: between 6 months to 1 year. Surely the point of HADD is that you start squeezing slowly right at the bottom and you continually work your way up the tube?

    However for target races which we are too soon into that cycle (such as BDs HM) we have to either downgrade the race to a C target and continue following HADD / come up with a fudge (such as my 80% - 85% instead of P&D LT runs) / or abandon HADD and follow a high intensity programme (such as the 10k McMillian one). 

  • Keir, Maybe I worded that badly. I didn't mean to say there was any need to abandon Hadd (Hadd forbid!). There may be a switch to specificity for a while, just like icing the cake. 

  • Oh. Good. 

    I like cake. image

  • Keir, Unfortunately crucially, we are talking baking it, not eating itimage

  • Santa Baby chickadeee wrote (see)

    Gaz: I'm really rubbish when it comes to nutrition image. There seem to be so many things that need attention first. E. g. when I come back from a long run I prefer to stretch and have a shower / bath before I even think about eating. And when I get up early midweek I feel too image to face any food. I have to do something about it though coz nutrition is a massive part of the bigger picture. Perhaps I need to get up even earlier and potter about the house, eating a banana or something before attempting my next 80% run. I did that in the summer but that was easier - it was already light when the alarm went off!

    I like that 10k workout plan! How does it fit with Hadding though image, i. e. isn't speedwork squeezing too much toothpaste out at the top?

    It's difficult to eat/drink within 10-15mins of exercise. I'm the same. And its easy to then get distracted following the shower. I've been forcing a nutrition bar and a shake down because it's the right thing to do.

  • Ding Dong and We Three - so having done 14 weeks of base and just started my 80%ers - should I really be looking at an 11 week plan from now rather than a 6 week plan after my inital 80% phase?

  • For example RW HM plan for 12 weeks and adjust. Doing 28 - 30miles a week currently on HADD - just wondered if I had done enough to start such a plan

  • Well, still working on a name...

    Tek, won't be such a long road. I bounced back within 2 months after 2 months of nothing. You'll come around quickly!

    Brian, perfect run today. Good stuff from everyone really lately.

    Keir, I like the view of HADD as a long term buildup to a marathon. That is basically what I am doing. My goal will be a fall marathon and I intend to just HADD my way there. This time around I'm likely going to limit myself to one quality 80% run per week so I can actually finish cooking the cake. I've only been really doing more than 25 miles per week for about 2 years now (with large blocks down to injury in that span). Hopefully I can HADD strongly all the way to october, which would represent my only year without major injury (knock on something, quick!). Anyway, if it takes 10 years to build the engine, I need some serious shop time. I think HADDing might be the perfect way to keep me on the road consistently over the next few years.

    Oh yeah, the eating thing Chick. I'm the exact opposite. I"m at my best when I roll out of bed and hit the road on an empty stomach. Alternatively, I also love to eat a huge lunch and then head out for a run. And Brian, I'm always taking a shower then realizing it's been 2 hrs since the run...too late!

     

  • Interesting debate and good running going on, Ding Dong lovin the new name, Quality!

    Met up with a cricketing buddy today, he has a HM time of 1:30 image, we did the Daviot wood loop from the retail park, just over eight miles in 81 mins, unfortunetly my HRM is knackered, got in touch with Garmin and they're going too send out a new strap, after a little investigation on the net it appears to be a common issue with the soft strap.

    For those that are interested see stats for run below

    /members/images/696098/Gallery/18Dec.jpg

     8.3 miles 81mins @ 9:46mm HR (who knows)

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