HADD training plan

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  • A very Impressive Long Run Chick !!

    Nice lunchime Run too Brian  -Nice MP pace in the middle.

    A record week for me last week. 70 miles. Doubles certainly help the mileage. A cut back week this week to about 55 or so I think. I have also dropped out of a 12Km race to ensure that I avoid injury. At the moment its mainly slow miles for me - with the odd SS or progressive run. Running with the dog has helped keep the miles slow image Happy with Training so far - just need a few more long runs under the belt in the next few weeks !! !!

  • keir great guns there for the win.



    chick as it happens 2 days of complest and then restricting the runing to no more than 60 mins a day of 70% seems to off sorted it. I've not felt any pain for a few days.

    60mins got me 8.16m yesterday at 70%

    60mins got me 8.01m today at 70%

    not going to increase the miles any more this week because I have the helsby half on sunday. But
  • But will keep the mileage low enough to feel fresh for the next couple of weeks to be safe.
  • imageSorry, fell off the support bus. Lots of great stuff going on so congrats to all on great work (and speedy healing to those in need).

    Keir, you rock! Congrats.

    I'm buried in work, not getting much sleep at all, and this week's ILTHR run showed it. Pace was OK, but at mile 5 I literally felt sapped of strength. I feel like I'm in an overtraining funk but haven't put in enought miles for that. I think it comes down to 2 things: lack of sleep and not drinking nearly enought water (been eating pretzels, etc during the work binge).

    Today its sunny and 50 degrees (feels like a sunny July day!). Debating getting some easy miles in but fear work precludes thisimage.

     

  • Sounds tough VTR but hang in there. I am sure it will get better soon. Just treat it as an enforced rest and try and make the most of it. Easy for me to say I know.

    Good luck at the Helsby hm on Sunday ATD

  • 60 minute run tonight in the wet,cold but at least the conditions under foot were ok.



    60mins 5m 11:55 @135(73%)
  • VT: It's a hard ask sometimes to balance training and work, especially if work takes it out of you. I would probably leave the ILTHR runs for a while - they may do more harm than good if your defences are already down from work stress. Stick to easy running, try and get some more zzzs and hopefully things will settle.

    Andy: great stuff!

    AGF: that's mega miles! Excellent!! I have to admit that I really hate doing doubles so respect for getting some in!

    Brian. wrote (see)

    chick, good progressive long run there. Don't you be peaking too early.

    EEEK! I have just started P&D today ... and I was struggling. So I guess no danger of peaking just yet. The struggling was down to snow and -8.5 degrees (16.7 F) which caused my asthma to flare up. Needed the inhalter twice. VT would probably run in vest and shorts image ...

  • Chick, hope the asthma has settled down, sounds like tough conditions for running

    VT, hope the work situation improves 

  • Thanks for the support you guys. Chick, you have a good suggestion. Dial it down until the crisis is past. I took yesterday off (despite the awesome weather) and will likely do as you say, keep it easy and relaxed. No need to push in this stretch as I've really got until summer to begin the formal marathon build up. And sorry to hear about the breathing difficulties in cold weather. You might not like it in VT, but you'd absolutely hate it in Minnesota where I grew up...seriously cold there!image

  • Getting back into it - but taking it easy with 3 runs from Saturday all at 4 miles and less than 75%.

    Prior to my 'rest' last week I had been getting a burning sensation in the base of my heel which I believe may be a touch of plantar fascia. I do have a high arch with little give in it so I require good support. I changed shoes in November from Brooks to Asics which now have only 150 miles on them - have done these short runs on my old Brooks and I'll try the Asics again later this week.

  • BD, Aaaaagghh! If it is the dreaded PF, be very careful. Rehab it properly or you may be struggling for a long while!! I've had problems with PF on both feet.

    Last hard session prior to Brass Monkey HM on Sunday:

    8.5M incl 3M @ target HM pace. 61:49 for the whole run (7:16 / 73%)

    3M tempo came in at 6:05 pace for 162 (88%)

    Had to slow down for icy parts on the towpath too. That's given me a bit more confidence for Sunday. 

  • Brian - good luck for Sunday - how are you tackling it? Splitting into 3 parts 75% / 80% and 85%??

    Also - if I have got PF - how did you tackle it (I know we are all different but it would be good to hear some ideas). Correct shoes for one!!

  • Good luck sunday Brian. All this weather talk is making me wonder if the helsby half is actually goin to happen or not.



    if its as cold on sunday as it is today (0??c here) I'm not sure about the chance of a pb. Can be icy in parts. So might have to just turn up on day an hope for the best.



    Had a good run today. Myself, dad an clubmate. Didn't waer the garmin but sometimes happier to leave it home if I'm running with me dad.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Be careful BD!

    Nice going Brian ... let's just hope for okayish weather now!

    3rd consecutive 2x5M double for me today ... hoping for a 4th tomorrow before a couple of days rest, although I may do single 5ish at lunchtime on Friday, depending on work.

  • BeDe, I tend only to run marathons at HR (and am seriously contemplating pace in future), and will run to feel on Sunday. I will have one eye on pace though, and want to go thru the first 3 miles at no more than 6:12 pace. After that I'm hoping to accelerate, ideally running the first 10k at about 6:10 pace. I averaged 168 (91.3%) at Eindhoven, would like to average round about the same. Obviously dependant upon the weather - it's looking dodgy at the moment.

    PF - Rest and ibuprofen until it stops hurting whilst walking. Then very gradual rehab. It's a case of stretching and strengthening. The PF is generally caused by a tight calf (which also can be caused somewhere else, for me it's because my shoulder dipping slightly because of a lower back problem). So stretch and strengthen the calves firstly and then stretch the foot. I find the best way to stretch the plantar fascia is 1. rolling a golf ball under the arch. 2. Kneeling and sitting on my feet with the toes stretched outwards behind you. 3. Coupled with stretching the toes the other way by pressing the ball of the foot into the wall whilst standing, which curls the toes upward agianst the wall. Hope that makes sense!

    Thanks AtD, hope the niggles are subsiding.

    DrDan, Nice doubling. All-in-all your gonna be as well prepared as you could be for BM. Things have gone well since shaking off the lurgy.

    I'm relaxed about the BM. Had convinced myself I was a way off pb shape having struggled the last 2 or 3 weeks. Yesterdays run has given me some confidence but not getting my hopes too high cos of the crap weather. It's amazing what a bit of taper can do - missed the weekend long run and the gym session, and hey presto - the run becames much easier/faster. Looking forward to meeting up with a few forumites.

  • Brian - thx for advice on PF. It only seemed to kick in after 3 miles (previously) which is when I stopped running for a week. This week it has been OK but towards end of 4 miles I felt it a little. Going to try 5 miles today and see if it comes back - doesn't happen when walking. However I will continue stretching. Funny my right shoulder dips as well

    To all competing in BM - good luck, hope the weather is kind (mind you it isn't called BM for nothing I suppose).

  • BeDe, Sounds like you may be lucky, and have caught it in time. It might be worth sticking at 3-4 miles, alternate some strengthening/stretching work, until such time as you feel a little more confident. The build it back up gradually... stretching/strengthening as you go.

  • Good luck to all racing over the weekend, BD hope the foot get better soon

  • Morning all.



    Oh the black hole of a situation lance armstrong is in, cant believe I watched lance in all 7 tours an thought what a legend.
  • macemace ✭✭✭

    Good luck to everyone racing ( fingers x'd ) this weekend.

    chick - that's a fantastic progressive 19, lovely image

    VT - sure the rest will do you good. For me sleep is the no.1 priority, and if i don't get enough i'm crap. If you're working hard and not getting enough sleep, take it real easy.

    BD - hope that foot clears, take care of it.

    Brian - great confidence boosting tempo. I hope the race is on and you go smash it !!

    Dr Dan - likewise, all the best. And some nice doubles going in

    andy - hope the recovery is going ok , certainly sounds promising ?

    10M for me this morning in the bitter cold ( -8 in some coastal stretches with the wind chill ) Bang on 70% @ 8:30 pace which i was very happy with considering it was fairly undulating image

    Oh, more of a shock than the cold was the moment about 5M in i realised i only had my base leggings on and forgot to put my shorts over the top .... i felt truly naked imageimage

  • thx all - still taking it easy. Last night did 5 miles at less than 75%. A 'hint' of burning sensation in the heel but nothing like it was so I'm keeping miles low. May throw in some 80% work for a couple of the miles just to get used to the pace as race is only 6 weeks away. But I'm not going to do anything silly - listening to body first and foremost. Loads of snow here (Herefordshire) today - just made it into work. Hopefully clear tomorrow and can run.

  • Sent home from work early, hurrah.

    Unable to run due to really bad weather, boo

    2 local leisure centres closed, more boo

    Feet up drinking tea and eating crumpets, hurrah

  • Hi all!

    Sorry to butt in, been reading quite a bit of the thread and am someone thinking of following the old HADD plan & looking for some advice from you experienced HADDers.

    1st off a bit about me, age 45, started running in 2004 and haven't stopped since!

    PB's for distances are:

    Marathon, 2.57.44 (Amsterdam 2011). ½ Mara, 1.22.39 (Alloa 2012). 10K, 37.49 (Dunbar 2012). Total Marathons raced: 17.

    In 2012 ran 2500 miles and didLondon,EdinburghandColognemaras. Now, this is where the old HADD thing comes in, as someone who for the last coupla years has followed P&D plans with increasing success (i.e. my 1st ever sub 3 mara after numerous close calls), but at London I fell apart near the end and came in at an agonisingly close 3h 13secs, then the 2nd part of last year my running pace took a large step backwards culminating in a complete blowout in Cologne at mile 18 with a 'lovely' 8mile death march to the end. Horrific.

    Anyway, I think the reasons for all this could possibly be A. too many miles and fatigue B. Training at the wrong paces. Like I said though, P&D have seen me good but possibly following their schedules may be a bit too much all the time for a bloke my age, so thought I'd give HADD a bash. I'm doing Edi mara on 26th May and currently giving my legs a rest with only 25 slow mpw and 2 days rest at the mo.

    I've never run using a HRM before so it's kind of a different mindshift from P&D pace so, things I'm really not sure of and need a bit of info on are:

    1. How long into the 'plan' should I start with Sub LT pace runs? I've tested myself between 35 – 40 bpm lower than my max HR (which is 175bpm) and this was coming at in around 7.38mpm pace, I’d like to get that down pretty sharpish as that’s way off my target mara pace (6.50mpm).

    2. How long should those initial Sub LT pace runs be? And how long should the longest be?

    3. I like to get 5 runs of 20+miles in training for a mara (up to 24miles), at what %HR should I be running these?

    4. At what point in the training schedule can I introduce any kind of interval training, if any at all?

    5. Warm up races – take it these are OK while doing HADD training? I’ll probably knock out a half and at least 1 10k preEdinburghmara.

    6. Really, how long should I keep to the HADD principles before going into a different training regime with faster work i.e. LT runs and Vo2 max runs?

    Sorry for all the questions guys, but I just want to get this right, I still feel I’ve sub 3 marathons left in me, but want to go forward with this training rather than backwards, to me it feels like a risk doing so much slow work though I totally understand the principles of HADD and have been doing a lot more slower 70% – 75% running of late and am feeling far fresher for it.

    Sorry for all the waffle, and hope you’re all good, and look forward to contributing to the thread.

    Cheers!

  • Welcome Neil, do I remember you from the sub-3 thread?

    1. How long into the 'plan' should I start with Sub LT pace runs? I've tested myself between 35 – 40 bpm lower than my max HR (which is 175bpm) and this was coming at in around 7.38mpm pace, I’d like to get that down pretty sharpish as that’s way off my target mara pace (6.50mpm).

    Do the 70-75% stuff for a few weeks to build up to about 50 mpw before adding 1 80% run. 

    2. How long should those initial Sub LT pace runs be? And how long should the longest be?

    Start at 30mins and building up to 70mins at 80%. Wrap these runs up with warm-up and cool-down depending on how long you have. I tend to do 10mins either side, making it up to a 90min run.

    3. I like to get 5 runs of 20+miles in training for a mara (up to 24miles), at what %HR should I be running these?

    Initially, whilst building the distance of the long run and maybe the first 20, run them easy, as you feel. Just use them as time-on-your-feet runs. After that you should progress to adding some quality into the long runs, making the progressive or mixing up the pace a bit.

    4. At what point in the training schedule can I introduce any kind of interval training, if any at all?

    This is up to you and maybe will depend on how you feel, or how the sub lt runs are going. The way I do it is after a few weeks of 80% runs (or when the pace plateaus) I up this to 83% and this becomes the MP run. If appropriate these can be complimented by intervals/speedwork in the last few weeks. 

    5. Warm up races – take it these are OK while doing HADD training? I’ll probably knock out a half and at least 1 10k preEdinburghmara.

    Warm-up races are a must when mara training. Sensible pacing strategies should be employed though depending on distance and regularity.

    6. Really, how long should I keep to the HADD principles before going into a different training regime with faster work i.e. LT runs and Vo2 max runs?

    How longs a piece of string? Depends upon results I guess, how long term a plan you have and enjoyment.

  • Morning Hadder's

    Started my new job this week and its non stop ! first day one 15 minute break in 8 hours just enough time to have a brew. 

    Anyway i took it easy this week as i've got Helsby tomorrow so only done 13 miles this week instead of 55, 

    Roy where are you ? it must be bad... mmmm i love crumpets !!!!

    Welcome Neil wish i could run your times !! only 1 min slower 10k and 3 min HM with no proper training so there is hope if i knuckle down. still half stone to lose.

    Oh by the way how important is it to warm up as i've never done it and  recently have been feeling a slight pull in my hamstring ? am i being stupid ?.

  • Peeved now image been training hard for the helsby half only for it to be cancelled day before. Not organisers fault the weather was rubbish but fustrating. Going to look towards next race now. A half marathon in Febuary.

    Might aswell go out for easy run today. No need to rest now.



    Welcome neil. image
  • The pavements are still way to slippery here in Cardiff to run, so for the first time in 15 years I am going circuit training.

  • Hi guys,

    Just a small update, I decided to turn off the HR alarm on the Garmin, as it was in a sense stressing me out, for the last week I've been running @11mm for my easy pace and today I ran 12 miles 8 easy 4 @ HMP and there was very little drift up to the six mile.

    Stats for the run

    /members/images/696098/Gallery/20Jan_0.jpg

     

  • Welcome Neil

    Stewart, how did those last 4 @ HMP feel?  Getting close to 90% must have been a test.

    Comiserations to all those who have had races cancelled this weekend. Must be very frustrating and even worse if the replacement run has to be on the treadmill.

    BeDe - keep it sensible.

    I have had a frustrating week as well because the niggle last Sunday was bad enough for me to wait to see the physio on Weds who caused me a lot of pain and told me to take it easy. So I had 4 days without running and since have only done 2x5 miles plus one 10 mile all at about 70-74%.  Good news is that the niggle seems to have gone and the bad news is that these slow runs were slower than expected and felt like something of a regression compared with the week before.  

    Has anyone else noticed drop in performance after 4 plus days off?

    Will be pushing mileage back up this week but will probably not go much above 75% so we'll see how it goes.  At least the weather here is not as restrictive as it is in other parts of the country.

  • Hollers, it was hard work, in truth I probably ran it a little too quickly, sorry to hear people has missed out on races this weekend, Mother Nature can be a bitch
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