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Good runs abound. Today did 8 miles that started off as a 70% run; felt like picking up my feet a bit so shifted to a 75-77% effort the last 6 miles. 7:50 m/m @ HR ave 76%. Just 4 runs ago this same effort was 8:40 m/m. Sleep = good!
As for the hands, i managed to find a little gas station that was open...the little old lady running the store reluctantly allowed me to run my hands under warm water in the bathroom (after telling me my face was full of ice; just what did I hope to accomplish this morning she inquired)? That helped for about another 2 miles but because my gloves were already damp both hands went bad at that point. I kept breathing on them, running with hands in pockets,and finally, managed to wrap my midlayer sleeve around each and slowly, steadily the pain went away. Next stop would have been full blown, double fisted, Al Bundy mode (read hands down front of pants)
Hollers, remember you are also PRing each week in terms of distance. After enough weeks of this you will hit the wall a bit. Don't forget step back weeks or just some time off every once in a while. I find that when I'm getting flat I'll have a holy shit moment (or week) where my gears just shift again (tempo runs feel easier; HR/Pace on easier runs magically drops). It's coming so look out
Keir - still HADDing with a little 80% work thrown in. Not sure I have enough time now after foot injury to test for race pace. Have a 9 miler coming up this weekend so I will do 3 mile at 75%, 3 @ 80% and 3 @ 85% and see how it goes. Will give me 'feel' about how the race will pan out pace wise.
8 miler at w/end - HR a little higher than normal:
Dist Split Avg. HR Time1.00 10:12 135 (73%) 0:10:122.00 10:12 139 (76%) 0:20:253.00 10:22 140 (76%) 0:30:474.00 10:13 142 (77%) 0:41:015.00 10:22 140 (76%) 0:51:236.00 10:22 141 (77%) 1:01:457.00 10:28 142 (77%) 1:12:148.00 10:25 143 (78%) 1:22:40
I did my 11.5m run - strictly at 75% (141bpm) this morning. Bit slower than normal due to head cold but came out at 8.15m/m 1hr 33min in total. I've got a 10k, my first running race since August this weekend, so looking forward to seeing how 70 / 75% with the odd bit of 80 / 85% stuff will have impacted my 10k (88%) pace.
Nice work, guys! Best of luck for the 10k, Keir. I would have had one last Sunday, but it was cancelled I'm off the HADD wagon for the next 12 weeks although I am still applying some principles to my MLR and LSR and will keep running some sections of the MLR @ 80%.Reckon HADD has paid off though - the dreaded P&D LT sesh was yesterday and surprisingly I managed 7:10 pace and it felt good
Chick, nice to hear the training is going so well. Will be interesting to see where you end up at the end of 12 wks.
Keir best of luck this weekend!
Hi all, still plugging away 17.83 k at 82% HR avg, in 92 mins.
Just training, no racing till end of April, well I might be seduced to do one half mara.
It's all gone a bit quiet out there - are we all having a rest??
Tacked a couple of miles at 80% in to last run - at 82% my pace is better than my last race BUT still not good enough for under 2 hrs Half M. Plus haven't managed a long run at 80% yet. On the day I know it will be different and I'll try splitting the race into 3 sections: 75%, 80% and 85%.
Dist Split Avg. HR Time1.00 10:00 137 (74%) 0:10:002.00 10:00 137 (75%) 0:20:013.00 10:01 140 (76%) 0:30:024.00 10:01 141 (76%) 0:40:045.00 9:19 150 (82%) 0:49:236.00 9:24 152 (82%) 0:58:476.69 7:27 141 (76%) 1:06:15 (cool down)
Strange training going on for me at the mo
earlier in the week ran 11miles excluding w/p at 82% in 92 mins, thats about normal.
just got back from a 11 mile run at 73% in 98 mins .
this equates to 6 min difference and 17 bpm higher ave for the 82% run, dont seem right, would expect a faster pace for the 82% run!
anyone got a idea?
Hello dude's and dudette's !!!
Well i've had a shit 2 weeks to be honest running wise due to a hamstring problem.
Things are well looking up and i think it's due to me finding a new job after getting layd off.. So getting back into training and feeling so much fitter ! went out today did 16 steady/easy @ 8.24 avg...spinnin tomorrow then take my little girl to her xc she's only 7 but a good little runner ...
Hi all , well a few days have passed and another run completed , this time our club 10 mile handicap. planned to run it between 80 and 85 % of MHR, in the end averaged 81%- 130bpm
Felt comfortable all the way round in a time of 77.47 over 10 mins faster on this run than last year, for the exact same HR ave.
Ashman glad things are working out for you,
Roy - could be something as simple as not rested from a previous run? particularly if it was a hard run? or you are aerobically fitter at 73% and still have some work to do at 82%?
I went out on Saturday with the intention of running at my HM race pace which I want to do at 75%, 80% and 85% of Max HR splitting into 4 miles each and taking the final mile at whatever I can manage. My HR was elevated as I had eaten too close to the run and I had been a busy little bee in the morning chopping logs. I split the training run into 3 miles for each Avg HR%. Although HR was higher than normal I was pleased as the pace for the 9 miles was 15s per mile faster than my PB and it was windy and the course has more inclines than race route.
Dist Split Avg. HR Time1.00 9:53 141 (77%) 0:09:532.00 10:06 142 (77%) 0:19:593.00 10:15 143 (78%) 0:30:144.00 9:16 151 (82%) 0:39:315.00 9:15 151 (82%) 0:48:476.00 9:21 151 (82%) 0:58:097.00 8:47 158 (86%) 1:06:568.00 8:58 162 (88%) 1:15:549.00 8:53 161 (87%) 1:24:48
So a hard training run for me but gives me the confidence to know that I should be able to beat PB and maybe with some hard work on the day get under 2hrs.
My marathon training (my first one) has gone a bit pear shaped. Now I am aiming to just get round in one piece and have a lovely day doing it. However, I want to do a fast marathon in April 2014. This gives me a ton of training time. I'll be joining the HADD bandwagon a few weeks after the VLM. I'm sure I will start off by complaining that I can't even walk while keeping my HR at 75% so just giving you all a heads up
BeDe, last week was a bit hit and miss pace wise and checking through my records the 73% run was a good run, and it showed on my club 10 mile handicap run a few days later where my HR was rock solid throughout the run, which has settled me down confidence wise.
I now know that I am ready to introduce a 85% run on top of the 82% run.
Welcome Khanivore it's all quiet here at the mo,at one stage I thought I was writing to myself
Roy - I did join in this thread back earlier in 2012. However at that point I was 4 stone heavier and my resting heart rate was probably over 70% of my max heart rate lol I should be in better shape this time round. I guess many people are doing what i plan to do - HADD and then move to P&D 18 weeks before a marathon?
Khanivore, glad you are back and have shed a few pounds, all 56 of them.
Khanivore - welcome
Just to give you an idea of how HADD can really help. I started on HADD last September, I'm 53 and had been running for a 12mths before starting HADD. 16 weeks of pure HADDing at 75% and below saw a full minute come off my pace at that level. Now I'll not pretend it was all fun sticking at that pace for that long (and the pace was slower than a sleeping dinosaur) but it meant I was injury free (up until I changed my running shoes!!). I still can't follow a full P&D schedule but I have added some 80% work in to the mix and will at some point follow a tougher schedule. My immediate prority is to get a PB for my next HM and HADDing has given me the confidence to do that. It isn't quick, but it works if you have the patience and if your aiming for 2014 spring marathon you will be amazed at what you can achieve. Stick with us and we'll help you through
Welcome back Khanivore.
I reckon the reason its so quiet is that everybody basically knows what they are doing and are out putting their acquired knowledge into practice
8.3 miles yesterday with 10x90s (60s jog).
Thanks guys I'll be lurking until after VLM. Lovely to get such a warm welcome!
I agree with Brian (yet again!)
12m 75% run this morning, about 20sec/mile faster than same run 8 weeks ago.
Keir - good stuff - HADD rules OK
A while back we had some discussion on HR drift, I found an interesting section in a book I have and thought I'd share it. For the geeks (like me) who love stats it's worth looking at. As always though, stats are great as long as you can compare like for like, but our bodies generally do something different! For this to work it has to be a steady run rather than varied pace or a portion of a varied pace run that is steady. Ideal for those long runs when trying to determine how aerobically fit you are. In the HADD doc (if I remember rightly) it's determined by the 10 mile rule keeping at the same pace at the same HR before moving up to the next level. The author talks about AeT (aerobic threshold) which seems to translate to the 75% - 80% in HADD and LT (lactate threshold) which we are all familiar with. The drift can be calculated for both types of run - indeed any run at any tempo as long as there is consistency for some or all of the run.
Here goes - quite long so bear with it - plus I have an example at the end for those that fall asleep reading the steps involved;
It is even possible to precisely measure how much decoupling (HR drift) is taking place in such a workout by comparing pace with heart rate for each half of the segment. Here’s how to calculate the rate of decoupling:
STEP 1. Determine average pace and average heart rate for each half of the AeT (or LT) portion of the workout. (1st half 10.25 at 139HR, 2nd half 10.4 at 141.5HR)
STEP 2. Divide the average pace for each half by the average heart rate for each half. (1st half 10.25/132 = 0.07374, 2nd half 10.4/141.5 = 0.07349)
STEP 3. Subtract the second-half quotient from the first-half quotient. If the remainder is a negative number, which will usually be the case if the steady-state portion is long enough, you know you slowed down in the second half. (0.07374 - 0.07349 = 0.00024
STEP 4. Divide the remainder by the first half quotient. This is a percentage that tells you how much drift (decoupling) was experienced during the workout. (0.00024/0.07374 = 0.00325 * 100 = 0.325%)
When an athlete is in good aerobic condition, decoupling (HR drift) should be less than 5 percent. Athletes who are in excellent physical condition decouple less than 1 percent, even for the longest AeT-portion workouts.
And heres how it looks on spreadsheet for a recent run of mine (8 miles)
So to sum up over 8 miles at that pace and HR I am aerobically fit. If I tried the same distance at a higher HR - say 82% or a longer run say 15 miles at 75% - I might find I get more drift and therefore less aerobically fit at that level for a given distance. Not rocket science, but interesting (well I thought it was)Friel, Joe (2009-06-01). Total Heart Rate Training: Customize and Maximize Your Workout Using a Heart Rate Monitor (Kindle Locations 1162-1169). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.
Im relatively new to well ...what I call heart rate monitor training and not HADD ...I dont know what HADD is and dont have the time to scroll back through this thread! Im about a week or so in [John Parker book, read cover to cover some areas twice!] and finding the less than 70% of the difference between my MHR and resting rate tough and frustrating but not completely ridiculous.
Im currently averaging abouit 13min miles which considering I can do under 7.30/mile in a 5k is incredibly slow. Im following a 10k [sub 55m] training plan and have registered for the RW 10k trail series.
The training plan includes 4 runs a week starting with slow runs with a bit of strides. Im translating slow into recovery or less than 70%. As some of the runs get a bit quicker I will apply % as follows;
How does this sound? My Max HR is 183 and resting pulse is 55.
Views guidance etc very welcome!
Do 70% of MAX heart rate, Not your WORKING heart rate.
Thats 128!! 145 is incredibly difficult as it is Id have to walk slowly to keep below that!
Leecampbelluk - welcome; my maxHR is the same as yours. I started at 75%of MaxHR = 137. Still use this as all my slow runs. Stay with HADD it works. My pace to start was 11:30 for 75% - now down to 10:15 (started September 2012)
Did anyone boil HADD down in to a simple set of instructions? Personally I have read the PDF but a friend was asking about it and i thought a simple set of instructions would be easier for him to digets.
Leecampbelluk - this is a link from which the original HADD document was formed by a John Walsh. I will try and find the link for the actual document which will really explain it better and for you.
Leecampbelluk - ORIGINAL HADD DOCUMENT HERE
download as pdf
Leecampbelluk, welcome! Patience is the key. As Bede has touched on, stick with 75% or less to start with. This is 75% of HRmax, not working HR. The pace will increase over time, depending on the time you can spend on your feet.
Interesting calculations on HR drift BeDe. Not really come across a standard or measurement tool before. Looks like it might be useful to compare fitness indicators.