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Brian -Yep - I'm feeding my runs in to it to across various paces and distances. As with everything time will tell but could be an interesting tool.
Is the HADD bit more up-to-date as Im following the John L parker jr book which is about working at % of WHR? Ive started this and Im feeling good so Im loathed to change now, when it seems to be a different cut fo the same cake? Im still focussed on my base aerobics and still runnning slow and long as I have read in Hadds blog?
Has the approach Parker is prescribing been improved upon? Or is it just differing opinions on getting to the same place - having a excellent aerobic system as a base for fast running?
We are talking about a 8bpm difference!
Lee, Dunno. What I do know that is running gets you fitter. Running slowly gets you fitter with less chance of getting injured. I'm not sure that 8 beats is drastic, it amounts to between 24s and 32s per mile. All my experience of heart rate training (8 years and 9 marathons) has been using %age of max, so can't really help on WHR. Soz!
Lee, I have the same book and the same question as you. I hope you get an answer from someone who has tried both. That would be great!
Lee - one must assume that you have looked at this thread for some enlightenment (like we all did at some point). It's up to us as individuals what training schedule we choose to follow. There are so many out there that suit all sorts of different people depending on their aims. All I can say is I had looked at HADD somewhat earlier than last September but I did not have the patience then to follow it through. I got fed up of injuries so I re-visited HADD and hey presto it worked for me. HADD does require patience and I've no idea if it's 'better or more improved' than John L Parkers system - all I know is that after I started on HADD I became injury free (that's not to say you can't get injured!!).
16 weeks of the base phase (all at less than 75% of MaxHR) for me produced amazing results. I then moved slowly to introduce 80% runs once a week and my 75% pace is still improving. So it's horses for courses - if someone has the patience to follow HADD and is not looking for a 'quick fix' it will work for them
Ok Ill stick with the Parker system and provide up dates on progress, hopefully the same result just a slightly different approach - ever so slightly!
Have any of you incorporated other things, Im doing Yoga twice a week which I'll cut back to one/week in a couple of months.
What Yoga has shown me is Im the most inflexible person on the planet!
Anything esle that compliments heart rate training well ...diet thoughts etc?
Is there a better time of the day for you to run on this system ..does HR naturally increase later in the day or is morning harder.
Any hints and tips appreciated!
Lee - Read this and this for a HADD overview.
Hi Kier, cannot open the second 'this'
Lee - I posted the same earlier - it is the HADD document - see earlier link from me
p132 - 9:39am
After speedwork on Monday, 10miles Tuesday, Hills yesterday, I tentatively joined in with my mates tempo run. Flabergasted to run my fastest pace ever on the towpath!
7miles incl 15mins at 5:59 pace, HRav 160 (86.5%)
Only time I have tempo'd at this pace before is on the track!
Don't know where that came from!!!!!!
Bl**dy H**l Brian - turbo charged mega blast
When is the next race? - looks like your pumping yourself up for it
Well done Brian! That must have felt awesome.
I'm shelved at the moment. Got some tendonitis at the base of my right shin (in the front). Have had this before and can usually run through it. Decided that with my big work project concluding over the next week that I'd just rest and heal. I haven't really taken a break from the training since September (basically just ramping more and more since returning from injury). I think this counts as my offseason. Anyway, will cool it until next week and hopefully doing the smart thing (resting for once in my life instead of pushing until it gets worse) will do the trick.
Happy hadding everyone.
Brian ref treadmill running and bad back, I changed from racing to road shoes and the problem has gone away, what shoes do you use on the treadmill?
Sonds as if your training is going well.
So my update today. I was doing a less than 70% WHR [John Parker system] so I have to keep below 145. Ive had to walk all hills to date and quite a bit of level running too. So today had a 4 miler and picked a route along the Grand Union canal.
It was flat but I didnt come near to walking once ... I occasionally went over 145 but only once to 147 and about 6 times to 146 ..slowing down worked very quickly as my heart rate dropped back quickly.
It felt slow still but it felt more like running than walking ...it was still a jog and a slow one at that but it didnt look like someone had just taken the zimmer away!
Average time per mile is now less than 11.30 which sounds pathetic [I have a sub 7.20/mile pace!] but the best Ive had so far is 12.40! Some have been into 13 [when facing hills!].
It was actually enjoying it which is a first for these base level runs. I need to hang on to this progress so I remain committed and motivated so feeling happier,
Lee - try the second 'this' again. It worked when I clicked on it.
VT, A break will refresh the mind too. Hope the niggle is history in a few days.
Roy, No I don't wear racers at all. I do have some hybrid type shoes (saucony kinvarra) which I reserve for racing and tempoing. I use my normal trainers on the treadie. I've gone back in the gym, and hoping that with more stretching and TLC the back eases. It is slightly better this week.
Lee, good on yer!
Good work Lee - my times when starting at 137bpm (75% MaxHR) were the same
146 -147bpm for me would be an 80% run on the HADD system which I only started after building the base at 75%. Did you manage to downlaod the HADD document? Really is worth reading.
Lee - here are two charts to compare the MaxHR that HADD uses and WHR system using the resting HR (yours at 55). Not sure if the calclation method is the same as inyour book so I don't want to confuse it but it's interesting to see the difference. Both have maximum HR at 183
HADD using MaxHR
LSR on Sunday - freezing, rained all the way round and hands felt like they were going to drop off. At 8 miles I thought "b******s to this I've had enough of being drowned from a great height" and decided to up the pace for the last 2 miles. Surprisingly HR did not jump that much for the faster pace.
Dist Split Avg. HR Time Elev. chg.1.00 10:28 142 (77%) 0:10:28 +82.00 10:28 136 (74%) 0:20:56 -53.00 10:17 138 (75%) 0:31:14 +604.00 10:07 138 (75%) 0:41:21 -595.00 10:36 138 (75%) 0:51:58 +176.00 10:19 139 (75%) 1:02:17 +207.00 10:28 141 (77%) 1:12:46 -448.00 10:29 142 (77%) 1:23:15 +119.00 10:08 141 (77%) 1:33:23 -110.00 9:47 146 (79%) 1:43:11 +11
Hi BeDe - yeah thanks for the charts it would seem that my recovery rate is slightly higher than using the HADD approach. Im sticking with Parkers approach as Ive started now and seems little point chaning in week 3 of my plan now.
Whats your resting pulse? if its similar to mine we can compare notes!
I did notice that raising speed is not strongly correlated to rising heart rate, increasinmg by say 10bpm on a run is quite hard and triring, the nearer you get to max!
Resting HR is 48
Resting HR can change from day to day, So i dont think it is much point using it.
spen71 - I tend to agree which is why I use HADD MaxHr. However I have found on checking first thing when I wake up that it doesn't change that much unless you are overtraining, which does affect it. If you take measurements at different times of the day then it will be all over the place. Only put it up there as Lee was asking - he is using different system than HADD. Anyway HADD uses MaxHr so I agree it is not an issue if following HADD
After 7 days off I put in runs of 7 and 8 miles Sun/Mon. All systems go. Time off seems to have fixed the tendonitis...was good for the Brain too Brian.
Rest day today...long run tomorrow.
VT - good that you are back running. How long off? Any upcoming races?
Im still putting the slow miles in. Not wearing the HR much as im doing a lot of hills. As soon as the canal paths are clear I am going to see what my pace is like but I did 10 miles @8:23 other night so
Good to see the familiar names sticking with it
I'm 10 wks into an 18wk P&D plan and i think i'll have to re-train the brain once this is over to get back to 70% running. Really looking forward to Sunday am bimbles along the coastline in the summer and a few months of HADD.
Hi mace, how you coping with P&D? I am guessing it's tough with a bit more tempo than you are used to?
I'm benched at the mo. Dodgy calf from racing last Sunday