HADD training plan



  • Brian - so did you run race too close to a hard session (or too close to too much beer on Saturday?)

    Seriously - you it looked like your training was going so well beforehand.

  • Ah, BeDe, according to my PT lady, when we are most fit we are about 1 wk away from major injury. What a buzzkill to think about...but it seems to be the rule with me. When I turn the corner I usually run straight into that truck I didn't know was sitting in my path. Hopefully Brian has a minor tweak!

    I've only missed a week, but the past 6-7 weeks I've only been getting mid30s to mid40s type miles per week. I was hoping to be in the mid40s to uppper 50s but this is probably a good thing (might actually see the truck coming). No races planned until the fall (marathon) so it's all good. Besides, my work schedule is crushing me at the moment.

    Good luck finishing out the plan Mace. And nice 10 miler Spen!

  • Brian, sorry to hear about the calf. Hope it clears soon.

    VT, interesting theory about the 1 wk away from inury thing and also a bit depressing.  I am struggling with a groin injury which started showing shortly after I had recorded how well I was running, and looking back on last year's diary had calf problems just after some of my best weeks of training.

    Am just trying to get mileage in at sub 75% until I've confidence to push on a bit.  I will never again tell myself I am in really good shape.

  • macemace ✭✭✭
    Brian, sorry to hear that and hope you mend soon. How did the race go ?

    Yes, pretty much as you say, not used to the faster stuff ( first vo2 max run today !! ) I ended up with a chest infection a few weeks back and lost all enthusiasm - not sure if this is because I was over my limit, possibly was, but a few weeks before that I felt fine and was coping well I thought. Apart from a few niggles that is, maybe that was another sign of doing too much ?

    Anyway, at the moment P&D is going good and my mojo is back, thanks for asking.
  • macemace ✭✭✭
    Xpost - cheers VT . Your mileage is ticking along nicely, no need to rush it.
  • BeDe, Combination of too much beer on the saturday (not something I normally do but it was a birthday do for MrsB), only 6mins warm-up, the hilly nature of the course and the cold weather. I was actually pleased with the run itself (maybe lost 45secs over the last 3miles).

    VT, I do believe the 1 week from injury thing and have tried to periodise my training over the last 2 years. As roadrunners, we don't tend to have a season as such, and therefore the tendancy is to train/race throughout the year. I got injured in 2011, and looking back on my log realised I hadn't had a proper break in 3 years! Now I try not to target more than 2 races per year, and following the target races have a week off and an easy month.

    mace, the race went really well considering. Having looked at the entry list to stalk my age group rivals, I concluded there were 3 others I knew were up there. A guy I know would win it (he's normally 2-3mins infront of me), a guy who would be 2nd (also quality runner) and then me and a Dewsbury runner contending 3rd. The Dewsbury runner normally beats me but I knew his race times were slightly off and I think he's coming back from injury. At the start of the race I spotted the Dewsbury guy and passed him early on (didn't see him the rest of the race). After about 7M I spotted the 2nd guy (Abbey) and was a bit surprised as I don't normally see him after the early stages. I got a little giddy when I realised he was coming back to me, and staying calm I passed him up the big hill at 9M. At the top of that hill and close to the 10M point I felt my calf. Not a stabbing pain, just a cramp-like pain coming on very gradually. It got steadily worse but I maintained my age cat position of 2nd and limped over the line. So 2nd dodger and beat a guy I am fairly sure have never beaten before! The time was 86:33, fairly happy with that as I had targetted 85:xx. Liversedge is a hilly course and probably worth +3mins.


  • Bliddy massage was cancelled last night cos of the weather!image

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    Great stuff Brian and congrats on the 2nd dodger image 

    Your pace was somewhere around my 5k pace, fair play to you.

  • mace, Cheers! I'm not gonna let the voucher change my life.image

    I am guessing that you are a few years behind me in respect of aerobic development. It will come.

  • Well tonight I worse my heart monitor and run a flatish course.

    1       9.51     119

    2       9.41     133

    3       9.34     132

    4       9.38     137

    5       9.31     135

    6       9.33     138

    7       9.44     138

    8       10.10   138


    Mile 1 is downhill and the end of mile 7 and mile 8 is uphill.    Its quite an improvement from Christmas when i was at about 10.10 for the same bpm.

    Will try a true flat course on the canal as soon as they are drier.

  • Spen, nice numbers. That is a really nice bump in a short time.

    Today I reaped the benefits of a decent night's sleep (6 hrs as opposed to the 4 or 5 hrs I normally get lately) and my time off. I set out running comfortable (could tell it was a little brisk but it felt very easy). I just got more comfortable and stronger as the run went on. Ended up with 11.5 miles @ 7:48 m/m at an ave HR of 77% (154). I was really cooking the last two miles (HR jumped to 80% for 7:24 and 7:13 paced miles to finish). Legs were strong/dynamic throughout and I could have easily kept going for several more miles. I love days like this; i'm never more alive than when I'm feeling super fit.

    Hope everyone has an nice weekend (can you tell I have endorphins surging through me right now?image)

  • Spen nice pace going on there, HR smooth.

    Ran a 12.4 mile 81% session this week and it worked out if I had carried on for another .7 of a mile would have been only 90 second off my half mara pb.

    So I will enter the Worcester half in mid April, and see where I am in my training.

    Brian, hope your calf  is getting better,drink lots of tonic water, full of quinine that relaxes the muscles,well it works for me anyway.

    P.S. no gin tho!!

  • Roy, funnily enough I had a pint of tonic ice and lemon, this lunchtime. Had a meeting at the cricket club and tonic is my driving drink of choice. You are obviously in great shape getting that close to your hm pb. Keep up the good work.

    Had another massage this morning from my regular masseur. As I thought my problems stem from the left side. My left calf was very tight, almost as tight as the right one. Anyway he suggested I ran on it and so I did.

    30mins very easy, and apart from the tightness had no probs at all.

    Will do 45mins tomora.
  • Brian - have a look at muscle activation therapy.  I had a problem with my calf and went to a MAT physio.  Turns out my right hip flexor was the problem and the imbalance caused my calf problem.  Also do you think you are packing in hard days without some easy day relief in-between?  Looking at your earlier comments it looks like youre stacking them [hard sessions] one after another.

    All - my parker HR training is going well.  Well until I came down with a vomiting virus last night.  Not pretty but already starting to feel better, though wont be running until Wednesday now.  Really frustrating as I was really enjoying the running here in Cornwall - on hols, kids half term.  I did 5 miles on the Camel Trail yesterday at first light - it was one of those glad to be alive moments - absolutely beautiful!

  • Lee, Thanks for the heads up. I have seen a physio who treated the area only, and then seen a masseur who I normally go to and he has treated all around the area and the other calf. As I thought, the other calf was very tight (and I knew this), and it looks like the right calf problem is probably compensatory.

    Re: hard sessions back-to-back. There are lots of positives from training with a group. But this one is a negative. We all have our own "schedules", ideas and rotas. And most days of the week someone will want to do a harder session. I tend to join in with these if they fit the bill, and if they don't I will water down the session so as not to compromise my training. So you may've seen 2 (or even 3) "hard" sessions back-to-back, but at least 1 of them would've been off-the-pace.

    Anyways, went out for a very easy 45mins yesterday, got a little carried away (again, running out to meet a mate) and ended up doing 60mins easy. Calf tightened a little after 45mins but after stretching it felt fine. I am aware of it now and will take it easy all this week.


  • Last hard run for me before Silverstone - will post it tomorrow.

  • Bede - hope the hard seession went well!

    Brian - so what does a typical training week look like for you?  Do you wear a HRM all the time?  I am currently running alone so have a control over what I do but Im probably missing out on the group benefits  ...there is a good club local to me but the night they meet I have other commitments and on Sunday they meet when I take my lad to rugby training   grrrrrr.

  • Thanks Lee - this is how it went. By the way I stopped running in a group becuase I was pushing too hard - now feel as though I could go back to it and will some point in March.

    Last hard session (thanks Brian) was intended as a pre-race confidence booster - now have 12 days of winding down. If this is not an advert for HADD I don't know what is - forget about the times they are nothing to write home about and may never be - it's the process of how we get there and what we can achieve as individuals that is important. My HADD training from September has been all about building up to the Silverstone half. My weekly mileage is low at 25-30 miles so it is important that my sessions are quality. Building a base for me was necessary and at times felt terribly slow (and was)image. After the base I started introducing partial 80% runs into my normal 75% workouts - it was still too soon!! Got injured - then found out it was my bl**dy new shoes not the 80% runs!! So from 75% runs @ 11:20 pace (yes that's right 11:20) this is what I did last night for my last hard session with 12 days to go;

    Dist    Split      Avg. HR      Time
    1.00    10:09  144 (78%)    0:10:09
    2.00    8:57    148 (81%)    0:19:06
    3.00    9:31    150 (81%)    0:28:37
    4.00    9:15    151 (82%)    0:37:53
    5.00    9:24    151 (82%)    0:47:17
    6.00    9:32    151 (82%)    0:56:50
    7.00    8:22    162 (88%)    1:05:13
    8.00    9:08    162 (88%)    1:14:22
    9.00    8:57    160 (87%)    1:23:19
    9.87    9:16    148 (80%)    1:32:36

    Felt good all the way round - 10mins warm up followed by 5 miles at 80-82%% then 3 miles at 88% with 10mins cool down. Not sure I could do the 88% all the way round but the 82% felt really comfortable and pace is on for a pb at that rate. Come race day I'm sure I should have enough in me to kick the last 3 miles at 88-90%. doesn't look like the sub 2hrs is on - plenty of time for that in the future.

  • Lee, Yes, I wear the hr monitor all the time when running. Infact I wear it when doing most cardio exercise. I am hooked on the stats, and the measurement of fitness. HR is just another number to analyse.

    My training changes depending upon the phase I am in. I periodise now, (since 2010) so as to have 1 or 2 targets per year. Following the target I will have a month of recovery which will include 1 week of complete rest, and 3 weeks of easy/steady running (no sessions or races). The build-up phases depend upon the target distance. I will extract a couple of weeks from the last marathon  (VLM Spring 2012) and half marathon (Eindhoven October 2012) build-ups.

  • Sorry x-post BeDe. Looking back, for my last HM I did a 10mile race 2 weeks out. I tried to hit target pace (unsuccesfully), and I'm still not sure whether this was a good idea. May've been better sticking to the 2 paced tempo. Anyway the last time I did the 2 paced tempo, my race 10 days later worked out at exactly the same pace that I had done in the faster part of the tempo, ie. the last 3 miles. So, I think you may yet be surprised.

  • Lee, I would look to joining a club. I'm surprised that the club you have looked at only have one training night. There will be others, and they may do 2 or 3 group sessions per week. But even if you can't attend the sessions, you will still benefit from the social side. Also meeting up at races, team events, relays etc. And there's the obvious financial benefit of reduced entry fees.

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    Brian - yep, my aerobic development is a fair bit behind you mate image 

    BeDe - i agree with Brian when he says you may yet be surprised. Nice running.

    This week is a record mileage week for me ( 70 miles ) , including a 12 w7 @ 10M-HM pace on Friday  and a 22 on Sunday. That's plenty enough for me, so for this morning's 15M MLR i stuck my HADD hat back on and targetted 70%.

    The averages ended up @ 8:50 pace @ 71% and my HR was pretty solid all the way. Fresh as a daisy when i finished image Lovely run

    I haven't got the stats with me at the moment but i'll put them up later this evening ..... i sense our STATS MONSTER is getting hungry image



  • mace - 8:50 at 71% - cool stuff - thats my 86% pace image. I guess in time (despite age) my aerobic development will continue to improve. Like Brian I'm targeting 2 races a year (at present these are only Half's) and I may one day move up to the big boys and girls event.

    After Silverstone might do Vyrnwy  - my plan for that would be to HADD up to 12 weeks before then do a 2/3rd P&D schedule.

  • mace, from small acorns...... Great stuff on the 70M week. Are you in base/Hadd mode or are you training more specifically?

    At the risk of boring you all, specifically for Lee, here is a couple of weeks in build-up to VLM last year:

    Monday 6/2/12

    am - 60mins gym S&C: 4mins on treadie, PowerPlate, roller massage.

    2 x (4xCentipedes/10xTRX single leg squats/12xTRX hamstring knees to chest/15 press-ups/16 lunges 6kg) 30s betwen sets.

    250m rower@2:00min/500

    2x(20xrussian twists purple med ball/12xswiss ball hamstring heel pull-overs/30s each leg buso balancing/8xburpees/10xeach leg/arm supermans).

    C-dwn 3x30s hamstring stretch/hip flexor stretch/glute stretch.

    lunch - 7M recovery 60mins 8:30/127

    Tuesday 7/2/12

    lunch - 8.7M hills 75mins 10x40s hills 8:41/127

    eve - 2M recovery treadmill 8:22/115

    Wednesday 8/2/12

    am - 60mins gym S&C: 4mins on treadie, PowerPlate, roller massage.

    2x(4xcentipedes, 12xscissor legs, 12xTRX hamstring pulls, 12xplank elbows to hands, 16xlunge jumps).

    2mins stepper level 14.

    2x(10xslow sit-ups, 12 heel pulls on swiss ball, 12xdead lifts green kbell, 30xmountain climber, 12xplank punches).

    Cool-down stretches - Hamstring 3x30s with leg up, hip flexors kneeling, and glutes stretch sitting.

    lunch - 8.2M recovery 66mins 8:04/122

    Thursday 9/2/12

    lunch 10.4M easy 82mins 7:54/120

    Friday 10/2/12

    lunch 8.6M easy 69mins 8:02/118

    Saturday 11/2/12


    Sunday 12/2/12

    am - 20.2M long 2h26 7:16/148 (7M warm-up then Liversedge HM in 87mins)

    Monday 13/2/12

    am - 72mins gym S&C: Usual w-up.

    3x(4xCentipedes/20xpress-ups,12xTRX hamstring knees to chest/15xsquat and press(8kg dumbbells).

    500m rower@2:15min/500

    3x(20xrussian twists/15xswiss ball hamstring heel pull-overs/30s each leg buso balancing/8xburpees/10xeach leg/arm supermans).

    Usual C-dwn.

    lunch - 7M recovery 60mins 8:32/123

    eve - 3.6M recovery 12:48/101 (Coaching - leading a beginners group)

    Tuesday 14/2/12 am - 60mins gym: Treadmill warm-up then pplate, stretching, massage

    eve - 10M track session 2M warm-up/1.5M cool-down, 8x4mins(90s jog/walk)  5:45-5:50 pace HRmax=171

    Wednesday 15/2/12

    am - 80mins gym S&C: 4mins on treadie, PowerPlate, roller massage.

    3x(4xCentipedes/15xback squats(10kg),15sit-ups swiss ball, 15xreverse flyes swiss ball(6kg), 16xjumping lunges);

    3mins level 14 stepper;

    3x(40s side planks, 15xcalf raises, 15xTRX hamstring curls/16xknees to side, 20xrussian twists).

    Usual C-dwn.

    lunch - 5.4M recovery 44mins 8:09/121

    Thursday 16/2/12

    am - 60mins gym: Treadmill warm-up then pplate, stretching, massage

    eve - 10.4M track session 2M warm-up/1.5M cool-down, 8x4mins(90s jog/walk)  5:40-5:48 pace HRmax=174

    Friday 17/2/12

    lunch 8.5M recovery 66mins 7:48/128

    Saturday 18/2/12

    lunch - 15M med-long 2h 8:02/130

    Sunday 19/2/12

    am - 8.4M incl 5.6M XC Race 6:52/160


  • macemace ✭✭✭

    Jeez, the 15M this morning didn't knacker me but that lot has image

    I've got just under 8 weeks of 18wk P&D 55-70 to go for Brighton, Brian.

    BeDe - and my 80% will be someone elses 70% etc etc until we get to the top boys knocking out sub5's over 26.2 !!!!  If we keep putting it in we'll close the gap image

  • mace - twas ever thusimage - how you finding P&D?? As I said I'm considering a two thirds mileage P&D schedule for next half

    Brian - I gave up after Tuesday image image

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    Bede - i'm getting there but i think i've been running a bit too quick at times and should be putting in more easy stuff especially as the mileage is new territory. So P&D suggest for MLR's and LR's to do first half  at MP+20% and second half at MP+10% .... i took that and basically that's how i've done every MLR and LR ( except the ones at MP )

    In future i think i'll do one of them that way and one of them easy.


    mace, what is your target?

    BeDe, That is the condensed versionimage

    8.8miles at lunch on the towpath. 71:49 (8:10/124)... but more importantly...touching wood.... calf is ok!


  • Mace, my 72% runs work out at 8.50 pace@ 115 bpm ave.

    BeDe, also doing Lake Vyrnwy,3 weeks before Loch Ness marathon ,will run it at full mara pace.

    Brian, is it, live to run or run to live.

    Unloading week this week 3rd day of no running 5 miles tomorrow at 70%.

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    Brian - well from my 10M pb at the start of  December, McMillan is throwing 3:20 at me image I can't imagine that and without any mara experience i don't see me risking it. I'll more than likely go for 3:30.

    What do you think ?

    Here's the stats from this morning as promised ..... call it a reward for your opinion image 


    A bit uphill and into the wind for the first 5 , 12-14 downhill and some with the wind , some of 14 and all of 15 uphill

    M     Pace       HR      %max

    1      8:57        123       68

    2      8:53        127       70

    3      9:00        128       71

    4      8:52        128       71

    5      8:57        129       71

    6      8:41        128       71

    7      8:42        129       71

    8      9:12        131       72

    9      8:49        130       72

    10    8:39        128       71

    11    8:45        131       72

    12    8:31        130       72

    13    8:21        128       71

    14    8:43        132       73

    15    9:36        134       74

    Tot   8:50        129       71

    Taking elevation/wind into account there was very little drift which i'm happy about. 

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