Fink for Outlaw 2012



  • @Orca, thanks for the Fink info. I think I may get that book. The programme I used for the 70.3 was on Beginner Triathlete which is a bit of a misnomer given the IM plan peaks at 18 hours per week. Recipe for burnout..image

    @Andy: 'm aware that monitoring your heart rate is essential, not only during training but also at rest. General rule of thumb is that if your resting HR (first thing in the morning before you get out of bed) is 10% higher than it normally is, your body is under stress, and you have to either skip training that day or take it really easy. These past ten months have made me realise how important rest is and 18 hours per week doesn't allow for much rest! 

    I'll get Fink and see what he says.  image

  • Orca wrote (see)

    I believe I only averaged 11 hours a week on my first one and still ended up completely over trained.
    Fink's Intermediate plan only has that much in the peak phase of the Intermediate program. An average weekly total of 13 hours a week can add up to a lot of training!

    I've just dug up my 2004 training log;  

    Average 10:30 hours a week - I was struggling in the last few weeks before the race, I could've been over trained or just suffering with an unrelated random illness?

    wk 1 - 20 hrs . wk 2 - 8 . wk 3 - 10 . wk 4 - 17 . wk 5 - 13.5 .
    wk 6 - 18.75 . wk 7 - 18 . wk 8 - 5 . wk 9 - 2 . wk 10 - 8.25
    wk 11 - 15 . wk 12 - 15 . wk 13 - 9.25 . wk 14 - 9.25 . wk 15 - 7.75
    wk 16 - 16.5 . wk 17 - 12.25 . wk 18 - 8.25 . wk 19 - 8.75 . wk 20 - 6.25
    wk 21 - 1.5 . wk 22 - 9.25 . wk 23  - 3.75 . wk 24 - 2.5
    wk 25 - 16   - Race week: (includes 12:38:08 for the race)

    I'm on week 6 of my preparatory training and I've averaged 18.7 hours a week;

    Wk 1 - 22.5 hrs . wk 2 - 23  . wk 3 - 16.75 . wk 4 - 14 . wk 5 - 17.25

  • That's seems like a massive amount of training on what look like random weeks.

    20 hours in week 1??? For me, that would be the fast track to illness and injury!
    What is the thinking behind it?

  • Why are you weeks so random hours wise? Wk1 20hrs? wk2 8hrs? Wk21 1.5hrs?
  • Orca wrote (see)

    That's seems like a massive amount of training on what look like random weeks.

    20 hours in week 1??? For me, that would be the fast track to illness and injury!
    What is the thinking behind it?

    Silver Trucker wrote (see)
    Why are you weeks so random hours wise? Wk1 20hrs? wk2 8hrs? Wk21 1.5hrs?

    During Dec and Jan (weeks 1-9)  I was doing loads of "random" stuff in the gym. Spinning, aerobics, rowing, swimming, steppers, cycling, treadmills etc etc, all geared towards nothing in particular.

    Some days were very long (e.g 73k of rowing and 14km swimming (both non-continuous) You could put all that down as base training.

    I think I decided to do the race and entered at about week 9-10

    Once entered I started "training" I had absolutely no plan whatsoever and just did what i felt like on the day.

    Swimming -  I'd done some long swims during weeks 1-9, but from week 10 I only did 3 race distance swims.
    Average 2800m per week
    (week 10-25)

    Cycling - Nothing much in Dec -Jan.  Started on the road February.   Longest ride was 103 miles, plus one 90, an 80 and couple of 70s.  I had some ITB trouble and barely cycled for the last 5 weeks.
    Average 80 miles per week
    (week 10-25)

    Running - Three 15 milers and a 18 miler on the treadmill during Dec -Jan . I did a 16.8 miler in week 11. a 20.2 miler in week 15 and a 21.7 miler in week 18. that was it for long runs.
    Average 18.6 miles per week.
    (week 10-25)

    (Week 21 - 1.5 hours - I had a bad cold.)

  • To me you had a great race but did it mean your personal expectations?

    Have you done another since with a more structured plan? Just curious to know if there was a difference in performance.

  • This looks like being the 2012 equivalent of last year's "Iron Distance Training thread", which I found really inspiring and motivational. I did Outlaw last year as a newbie and loved it. If you lovely folks have half as enjoyable a journey as I did, you'll find it enormously worthwhile and fulfilling. I've entered IM Wales for 2012 and I'm undecided whether to do other races, because my lovely and supportive other half is doing OUtlaw, and that's our prime focus for the year.

    I followed Fink fairly closely last year and found it really solid. Just checked my log and I averaged just 9.1 hours per week over 30 weeks. That went up to 12.3 hours per week for the last 7 weeks. I went from being a lardy, retired, front row rugby forward with no endurance sport background to a 12:40 finish at Outlaw, which I was pretty proud of. So if that rings any bells with any of the newbies, perhaps you'll be reassured that what seems crazy now is very achievable for anybody. Some things I think were important;

    - Do stick to the heart rate training. You'll feel snail-paced and ashamed for a while, as dog walkers overtake you on your run, and kids on BMX's whizz past you on the bike. But your pace will increase in time, and come the run leg of Outlaw, you're not going to give a toss how quickly you can run 6k
    - Focus on the prime workouts. It matters more that you commit to a long run, bike and swim and just fit stuff around it
    - Do your bricks. I didn't do many and I really ought to have done more
    - Be patient. Finishing your first Iron Distance event will feel less and less likely for a while as your training progresses, which may sound counter-intuitive. But when I started off, it felt like a jolly adventure. It was only when I was doing 10-mile runs on a Saturday and then 60-mile rides on a Sunday that I started to freak out a little at the enormity of it all

    Hope that helps. Have fun!

  • Although it is Fink for Outlaw, I now have the book and am using it for the single enduroman in early June. As it happens I started yesterday. I have had to develop it into an 8 day week due to me working shifts but with the amount of work I think 2 days off a week will be OK. It is 28 8-day weeks until Enduroman so I will need to lose 2 weeks somewhere but I'll worry about that after the base phase. It makes a lot of sense to build a big foundation before any higher intensity stuff. A house would crumble without it and I'm sure your body is the same.

    I have found some great stories/personal accounts etc on here that are all really inspiring to me to really get on and do it! I have been lazy for 6 years sports wise but in that time have either been working or child minding as myself and Mrs Chilli work opposite each other. Now the kids are both in school all day I have really enjoyed getting out on my bike again and continued to do a bit of running. I hated running before and only did it because it seemed to be easier to fit a session in rather than getting out on the bike. Its all like a fresh start.

    Anyway, here's to next year and the 6 months in between.

  • Orca wrote (see)

    To me you had a great race but did it mean your personal expectations?

    Have you done another since with a more structured plan? Just curious to know if there was a difference in performance.

    My target was sub 13 hours;

    swim - expected 1:15  - actual 1:08:46

    bike--- expected 8:00  - actual 6:51:40

    run---- expected 3:30  -  actual 4:25:02

    The swim was better than expected and the bike was a lot better.  With hindsight a 3:30 run was a totally unrealistic target, I got to about 15 miles and resorted to a run/walk stratergy.

    What I gained on the bike I lost on the run, which still brought me in under target so I was happy enough at the time. Over the years I have become less and less happy with my performance and that is why I'm doing the Outlaw.

    I didn't do another triathlon until Bala Standard this year.  A nice 7 year gap that included no swimming or cycling.

  • Sorry if this has been asked before but can't be a**ed to go back on the thread.....

    Has the new Fink edition 2 book got anything in it markedly different to Edition 1?

  • TJ1004TJ1004 ✭✭✭

    can anyone who has done Outlaw before let me know what drinks/bars/gels they have out on the course?

    I figure that I might as well start practicing with stuff to try and get used to it.image

  • high 5...

    The drink was a berry flvour, and we gave out lots of fruits of the forrest gels.....
    They are not bad....... 

    There were also bananas on the bike (but we ran out after about 5 hrs)

    Someone else way help with the run, but the year before they also had cola and jafa cakes, (nicely melted)

  • TJ1004TJ1004 ✭✭✭
    Ta very much
  • From this years race info sheet;

    Nutriitional Information
    High5 will once again be the official Outlaw Triathlon partner. On both bike and run course there will be High5 Energy Source Citrus and High5 Energy Gels and Energy Gels+ - mixed flavours

    Just read thru the rest of the info and can't see anything about loos on the run course, does anyone know if there were any? (just in case)

  • The ready salted crisps were the best thing in the world after 20 miles fo the run.....I still can't stand the sight of High 5 products though

  • There were toilets at the turnaround on the run course at the town hall and ones at the far end of the lake in 2010, whether there were additional ones in 2011 I don't know...
  • imageimageI can't remeber seeing toilets out by the lake. I O.D on the berry hi 5 gels, they were very niceimage, as for the jaffa cakes, I gave them a miss as they were melting in the heat this year. There was oranges too,i f I remeber.
  • I had a really usful bike session today. An expereinced rider toook me out and taught me loads about cornering and descending. 

    I can reccomend this to anyone eles new to biking as it has made me feel more confident and I am sure will help a lot . I cant afford to waste any energy braking too much and certainly dont fancy falling off.

  • OMG I just entered myself and neighbour as a relay team. I am doing swim and run parts.
    I blame Happychap but am now excited and nervous at the same time.
    I haven't run a full marathon since 1997, but hope to stay in one piece and enjoy the day.
  • Nice one Steady image

    That Happychap has a lot to answer for image

  • There were toliets on the lake bit but it you where canny there was also proper toilets in the main building if you didn't mind taking a minute to get to them.
  • Lanza week 3 training done image
    Run focused week with a big bike tacked on on sunday.
    Also got to my tri club's swim for the first time ever.

    My program does not seem to include rest weeks.....image  so I have 2 big weeks to come, getting in volume / base before the white stuff hits

  • Muffin Top - great advice re bike skills training. image

    Re HR training - I confess I didn't read that MAffetone article in depth but it might be worth saying again (quite a bit about it a few pages back) that working out your max HR from a formula doesn't work.  We're all so different.  The classic 220 minus your age formula only works for about 30% of the population so could have you working at the wrong level, no matter how many 'add 5 beats' for this or 'take 5 beats away for that' there are to refine it. Can't see how starting at 180 makes it any better.

    My max is 196 (or was when i tested it 2 years ago) but 220 minus my age would have me assuming a max of 181!

    Good way to do it is (and I think Fink suggests this) go and run a 5k hard and in the last k your HR will be maxed out.  It's not pleasant, but it's much more accurate. Great excuse to do a Park Run. There are other ways such as running hard uphill for 2 mins three times and you'll max out in the last one. There are loads of ways to test it... such a shame to base all your IM training on zones that are wrong!

    <Climbs off soap box>

  • I totally agree AH......and i wasnt suggesting you shouldnt test out and get your HR properly...the article and the reason i posted was simply to show people the importance of doing a proper base training period...something i didnt do...and also to maybe give people something else to focus on instead of just doing rinse repeats of the first session on the fink plan....once you sign up your itching to get going..and now is a great time to get a decent base built.

    just a starting point and a good articale to start on to get your base and how important that is
  • Good for you, Steady! image

    Bike skills seem such a good idea. Though it would help if I knew someone who cycled! 

  • I'm going to bring this back up again.....Fink's swim sessions!

    The base phase for Comptetitive/Intermediate have 2 x 1hr sessions per week, each a 2500m set. Every 10 weeks he adds on another 500m in within the same hour.

    I swam 1900m today (first time!) in 50 odd minutes. It is unlikely that I can do a proper 2500m set in 1hour. When I have done a proper 1600m set it takes an hour including drill, main set etc.

    What was the general concensus on these sessions? Fink it and go by time, or put in the effort and do the distance. It's all about the bike right? image

    Sits back and watches the worms escape the can....

  • Hey Cat...i've done 2 ironman races....and its 1-1 at the moment....i've never ever ever ever followed a fink swim session.
    in the winter i go the pool, do drills or swim a mile...takes me about 42 minutes in a pool. in the spring i start ow swimming and just go by how i feel. before the first race i had never swam more than a mile....swam a 1.35.. (dnf'd 11 miles into the run) for the second race the longest swim i'd done was 2000m at Bala (which was horrendous)...swam a 1.34 at IMUK (finished this one in case you wondered image )
    anyway what i'm saying is....the swim is the easy is all about the bike.
    if you can stick to fink plans i guess they wont do any fact it will give you a great swim split....but if not dont worry too much about it.
  • That reassuring Andy!

     What are peoples thoughts on a half iron man in preperation for outlaw. Fink reccomends one about 8 weeks out. UK options seem to be Marshman and Swashbuckler? Read a lot about Swashbuckler but cant seem to find much on the marshman. Marshman is a bit cheaper which is appealing but wonder what thoughts people had?

  • Cat - might depend on how good a swimmer you are.  If you can swim well, it's not such a worry, as Andy says. But if  you're not a good swimmer, you've got to get the swim training in because it's a long way you don't want to start the bike knackered.  However, bashing out the miles with poor form is only going to make you a fit crap swimmer - who will still use more energy than they need to during the race. I'd say crap swimmers need to be working on their stroke now and ignoring a plan.  They could use the plans as a guide but much more important would be having a few sessions with a coach so you know what you need to be working on.

    Swimming is the one tri discipline you can safely go over distance in before The Day and at some stage you're going to want to swim the full distance, poss more than once. However long it takes you you're going to need to swim long enough to do that. But there's plenty of time for that. 

    So if you can swim - it won't do you any harm to do Fink's sets, even if takes you longer than the time he suggests.  (As long as you don't die of boredom in these early days... plenty of time for that next spring! image) But if you're a weak swimmer, focus on technique technique technique.  Up to a point, in swimming you get faster by having better technique - not more fitness.

  • Cat - have just looked at your times. If you're an alright swimmer you probably will get fitter and manage 2500 in an hour, although doing drills slows you down.  You could invest in some fins for drills.  They work your legs quite hard but they give you enough propulsion to stop you sinking while you focus on arm work.

    AJ - haven't done Marshman but lots of people like it. It's very flat I think which can make it very exposed on a windy day. I've done Swash twice and it's a great race run by lovely people. Very first timer friendly. The thing about the Swash is that you need to be an ok swimmer because the swim is tidal. I think up until two years ago the tides played ball and the race happened at slack tide so it was all very benign. However, the last two races have been quite 'lively', tide-wise and this year they enforced the swim cut off (60 mins I think).

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