violence in senior school

Hi

last week I had a phone call to collect my 12 year old from school.  He'd been punched in the face by a boy from the year above.  The school had put an ice pack on his face and by the time I collected him they were pleased to tell me the swelling had gone down a lot.  He had also been 'interviewed' by the deputy head by that point.

My son had a lovely black eye,  three areas of grazing, one right on the outer edge of his eyelid, the others on his cheekbone,and swelling and bruising on the side of his face.  This is still apparent and he now has a lump about the size of an adult thumb nail on his cheek bone so not an insignificant blow to his face.

When I collected him the office staff said the school would look into the incident.  A week later (Wednesday) I had not had any contact from the school so I emailed his head of year and asked them to let me know what action they have taken.  To date I've had no response.

I gather from my son (who went back to school the next morning) that the other boy had to spend a week in the referral unit (solitary confinement!!) but I did expect to hear something official from the school.  Or am I wrong?

Thoughts or advice anyone?

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Comments

  • contact the police, you would if it happened anywhere in the public, why not in school. That is illegal, you cant just hit people, if the school wont discipline the student, the police will.

     Make sure you take lots of pictures of your son as evidence as you will need it if this goes to court. I'm so sorry your child has been through this terrible violence, I fear for my kids when they have to start secondary school

  • Erm....overkill Andreia?  Firstly, you don't know the ins and outs of the incident and quite frankly, kids will fight - thats what happens in schools.  If you were to call the police every time there was a fight in a school they'd be completely over run and would also make an absolute mockery of the school's disciplinary procedures.  The school has clearly looked at the evidence and dealt with it as they felt appropriate.  I have to say, if you react like that any time your kids are involved in a fracas, you're going to make their lives a living hell in school!

    Miffi - contact the year head again and make it very clear that you're not happy with the lack of input with regard to this incident.  Give them a deadline to get in touch with you and if the year head still has replied, e-mail him again, copying in the head teacher, and tell him that you're at the point of taking the matter further to the education department.  Hope your lad's ok in the future.

  • Just phone up and ask. there may be issues where the school feel that they can't share information because of privacy issues for the other child (as strange as that sounds). You can ask how the investigation has gone and what the outcome was, I'm sure they'd be ok to tell you that.
  • WilkieWilkie ✭✭✭

    I'd suggest asking the Head, in writing again.  If that gets no response, make an appointment.

    I wouldn't recommend going to the police over one incident.  

    Yes, you would if an adult whacked you in the face, but kids do fight and get into trouble for it (being in the referral unit) and learn that it's not acceptable.  Adults are supposed to know that already!

    Did you ask your son what had happened just prior to getting punched?

  • Hi  thanks for the replies.

    Wilkie,  yes I did ask.  clearly I don't think he wasn't polishing his halo at the time.

    Making allowances for him not wanting to incriminate himself roughly the story was that there was some pushing shoving and name calling going on between my son's friend and another boy in their class which continued into lunchtime.   This third lad, who is in the year above,  then got involved threatening my son's friend,  my son says he told this boy to  "jog on"    (not sure what this means but its probably not polite)   he grabbed hold of my son's tie and shirt front and punched him in the face. 

    My son swiped his legs away from under him.  He fell on his bum, got up and punched another two boy who were within his reach, one in the back of the head, one in the mouth,  before the teachers intervened. 

    I understand he has been previously labelled as having ADHD and behaviour issues, so perhaps that was a factor.

    If it had been a playground squabble I wouldn't be getting involved.  It feels more violent than that.

    I feel putting the boy into referral for a week is probably appropriate, I just think there should have been better communication from the school.

  • I agree with most of the posters that fights happen, and while there were no weapons or nasties involved I wouldn't feel it is necessary to get the police involved. If it happens on multiple occasions, then maybe a re-think.

    However, the school should be keeping you informed and letting you know of any punishemnts that are to be given to any of the children involved, but obviously more so to the aggressor. I would phone and make an appointment with the head, and let him know that you want answers to the incident for when you arrive.

  • 'labelled ADHD and behaviour issues' (grrrr) - In my school days some kids were just labelled 'bad'. Isn't a label such as ADHD just the schools and parents way of defending and excusing their little angels ??
  • Runner888 wrote (see)
    'labelled ADHD and behaviour issues' (grrrr) - In my school days some kids were just labelled 'bad'. Isn't a label such as ADHD just the schools and parents way of defending and excusing their little angels ??
    No, it isn't.  My brother had ADHD as a child, he wasn't bad and we weren't excusing his behaviour.  Labels for children can only ever be bad imo. 
  • Andreia wrote (see)

    contact the police, you would if it happened anywhere in the public, why not in school. That is illegal, you cant just hit people, if the school wont discipline the student, the police will.

     Make sure you take lots of pictures of your son as evidence as you will need it if this goes to court. I'm so sorry your child has been through this terrible violence, I fear for my kids when they have to start secondary school

    I think definitely over the top...........

    and as The OP has stated this is not just someone walking up to someone and punching them without any other interaction and with no build up.............

    I agree that the school should have kept you informed if you had enquired about it..............the other child had obviously been dealt with

    Runner888 wrote (see)
    'labelled ADHD and behaviour issues' (grrrr) - In my school days some kids were just labelled 'bad'. Isn't a label such as ADHD just the schools and parents way of defending and excusing their little angels ??

    definitely not..............whilst there might be some mislabelling around as with all things.......these are real issues and these children have a lot more to deal with that most children...just to go through a school day can mean that they can be drained to the point of nervous exhaustion.............

    The label isn't giving an excuse for the beahiour......its giving opart of the reason for the behavior..............then child still has to be "punished " and do many more things and activities that will teach them how to learn appropriate behaviour..............

    in many cases other children know how to push the buttons on these children and watch as they spiral out of control...............whilst they can be in the side line and slip out of the way when the aurthorities come........not that I'm saying that this was the case in Miffi's son case..........

  • Call the police??  I think the army, at least.  Or a russian with a poison-tipped umbrella.  That's the only way to deal with 13 year olds.  Andreia for president!
  • Miffi wrote (see)

    my son says he told this boy to  "jog on"    (not sure what this means but its probably not polite)   he grabbed hold of my son's tie and shirt front and punched him in the face. .


    The term jog on origionates from the movie, the football factory an insightfull portrayal into football violence. It was one of those great, frequently relevant one-liners at the time it was quoted, it is a threat of violence.. in effect "fu*k off or I will do you in"

    Your son simply recieved the fruits of the seeds he planted, rough justice, but justice it still was imho. I think your son should count his blessings that the child he decided to make a threat to was not carrying a knife which is not uncommon these days.

    Personally I think your Son got of lightly, I think the school should have punished him for making threats of violence to other pupils.. I would most certainly have supported my child giving him a really good slap for saying such as thing... Every action has a consequence.

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭
    Squeakz wrote (see)
    Miffi wrote (see)

    my son says he told this boy to  "jog on"    (not sure what this means but its probably not polite)   he grabbed hold of my son's tie and shirt front and punched him in the face. .


    The term jog on origionates from the movie, the football factory an insightfull portrayal into football violence. It was one of those great, frequently relevant one-liners at the time it was quoted, it is a threat of violence.. in effect "fu*k off or I will do you in"

    Your son simply recieved the fruits of the seeds he planted, rough justice, but justice it still was imho. 

    Personally I think your Son got of lightly, I think the school should have punished him for making threats of violence to other pupils.. I would most certainly have supported my child giving him a really good slap for saying such as thing... Every action has a consequence.


    Are you trolling??

    Putting aside the exact meaning of the phrase "jog on" - I wasn't aware that it had any connotations with violent threats, merely another way of saying "yeah, whatever, do one..." - do you really think that anything someone says justifies a hard punch to the face?

  • WilkieWilkie ✭✭✭

    I understood "jog on" to mean "get lost", or "bugger off", rather than anything more offensive.

    However, things can have different meanings in different areas, and the meaning might have become diluted from the original coining of the phrase.

  • Im not for a moment suggesting that it deserves a punch to the face, but if you insult someone and make a threat of violence you can not be surprised if that is the outcome.

    I think the term is horrible, it origionates from a movie about violence and continues to represent violence...
    From the area where I am from it is classified as a threat of violence, that is how I understand it... It is a warning to go before you are attacked.. it means it is safer to be scared and run away, hence the jogging reference

    However you interpret the meaning or however it was intended... You must be prepared to consider when saying derogatory remarks that the person it was said to understands the meaning to be the same as myself and be prepared for the outcome.

    I think the child who was violent was suitably punished, I think the school acted poorly and should have provided more information regarding what was done to the attacker. I also think the child saying 'jog on' what ever the exact meaning was not making polite talk and learnt that you can not talk to people in any manner you desire and expect to get away with it.

    Just because I hold a different opinion to you, it does not mean I am trolling.

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭
    Squeakz wrote (see)


    Your son simply recieved the fruits of the seeds he planted, rough justice, but justice it still was imho.

    Squeakz wrote (see)

    I would most certainly have supported my child giving him a really good slap for saying such as thing... Every action has a consequence.

    There's a very big difference between understanding why a child would punch another child in the face, and condoning that action. Your original post seemed very strongly to me to condone the action, which I find quite offensive, hence why I thought you might be trolling.

    If you're saying it's not justified then fair enough but it didn't come out that way.

  • I most certainly do not think its justified.. I think the child should have been punished even further, had anger management or help if it was needed.. It's simply not appropiate imho

    I think the school acted terribly with regards to information flow.

    I just felt that the child who had been hit was lucky that no knifes were involved but was not free of blame either and may have helped create the situation or inflame it.. perhaps the lesson was learnt by the outcome who knows.

    As I understand it as being a threat I would support my child defending herself to that threat

    Having said that If my child told anyone to 'jog on' I would be livid and most certainly she would be in trouble... I do not think its acceptable.

  • KK - based on your experience, what do you personally feel is the reason for poor behaviour of some children these days. Im really curious regarding this kind of thing.

    Obviously I might be over stepping the mark, but can you tell me a little about your background such as what you do to work with  psychopaths, just really curious.

  • Thanks for sharing your insight, im always interested in such things
  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    Well I've learnt something myself about the way an expression which I thought was pretty harmless might be taken.  I agree that genuine threats of violence should be treated extremely seriously, but I think it's equally important to allow for the possibility that the remark was not meant in that way at all.  I mean, what are the chance that a 12 year old kid has watched a particular film about football hooliganism, or at least knows of this stronger meaning, and genuinely intended such an extreme sentiment in his remark?  I think I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and surmise that the actual violence committed was totally uncalled for.

    Whatever the situation, I couldn't ever see myself following my dad's footsteps and becoming a secondary school teacher.  image

  • Imelda Mouse wrote (see)
    Badly Drawn Bloke wrote (see)

    http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/39798/Gallery/RWTShirt4.jpg




    image


    I'm sorry to copy this from another thread, but if 'Jog On' is universally understood to be so utterly offensive then possibly not a good choice for the front of the proposed RW unofficial T shirt!

    I'm fairly sure that my son has never seen Football Factory.  However, having googled the phrase I think it's use as a playground insult probably stems from  this 

    Squeakz if you were to encourage your child to respond to insults with physical violence then I guess they might spend a lot of time in detentions, referral and maybe being permanently excluded. 

  • Yep, I never know that jog on was a threat of violence.  Thought of it more of a nothing to see here, clear off, keep your nose out etc sort of way.  From the t shirt point of view, I did see it as a way of telling RW that we would do our own thing, but also playing to carry on running/jogging - sort of like party on.  Plus over use of a phrase dilutes it.  No one particular group owns language - it belongs to all of us.

    Hijack over.

  • I would agree with you mifi, its just that in my area the term is not considered to be an insult, it is a considered to be a threat. I would encourage all children to stand up to bully and threats not to be scared.
    My girl would stand her ground and defend herself as such if she responded by lashing out, rightly or wrongly I would defend and support her if provoked and threatened.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Squeakz wrote (see)
    Miffi wrote (see)

    my son says he told this boy to  "jog on"    (not sure what this means but its probably not polite)   he grabbed hold of my son's tie and shirt front and punched him in the face. .


    The term jog on origionates from the movie, the football factory an insightfull portrayal into football violence. It was one of those great, frequently relevant one-liners at the time it was quoted, it is a threat of violence.. in effect "fu*k off or I will do you in"

    Your son simply recieved the fruits of the seeds he planted, rough justice, but justice it still was imho. I think your son should count his blessings that the child he decided to make a threat to was not carrying a knife which is not uncommon these days.

    Personally I think your Son got of lightly, I think the school should have punished him for making threats of violence to other pupils.. I would most certainly have supported my child giving him a really good slap for saying such as thing... Every action has a consequence.


    Have to laugh at your first paragraph. You've pretty much lifted it from the below site. Hardly a definitive guide to english language!

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jog%20on

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