2012 Marathon thread

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Comments

  • Cheers AGF, that makes sense. I've got a HRM with my Garmin that I never use. I'll put it on next LSR and see what it comes up with.
  • Slower running also helps increase number and efficiency of mitochondria and help you become more efficient at burning fat as fuel- i think. Also extra miles helps improve your running economy.
  • jason d- yes I will listen and slow down only because you say you lost some weight! I need to loose a few pounds.

    It's scary running slower only because I think will i be able to run faster on race day ect, but I can see the logic in why we need to run slower. It's just getting used to a new method of running.

    Agree with Gaz, ref learning from knowledgeable folk.

  • One of the reasons I ran my 20 milers at race pace for Chester was that it was my first marathon and I didn't want to go into the race not knowing whether I could run even 20 9 mins a mile AND not knowing whether I could run 26 miles at any pace.

    The doubts on race day would have made me a nervous wreck!
  • GazOC- now you knowimage

    Gazelle- As far as weight is concerned- you burn more or less the same amount of calories per mile whether you run fast or slow- but you can burn a lot more calories running slowerimage

  • AND it means you get to spend more time runningimage
  • I can really understand why we need to run slow. But it gets to the point for me when I feel uncomfortable running any slower and I feel like I might as well walk. For me it's about 6min/km. Surely as long as we stay within tha required range (McMillan) we get the benefit?
  • Yup, Jason. I'm a lot more relaxed about that side of it now, it was a terrible nag at the time though. I'll slow down my LSRs forthwith, those numbers you've posted up wouldn't be a problem for me to stick to.
  • Mon, I know what you mean if I go to 10 mins a mile it feels like I'm bouncing up and down for the sake of it instead of using the same amount of effort to move myself forwards.

    I'll stick with 9:30 as Jason suggests as that does still feel like "proper" running to me.
  • Guess the bottom line is it worked for me- and it was a fantastic feeling to find a sprint(ish) finish for the last 200m of a mara and PB, rather than praying for it to be over for the last 4m. 3 weeks later and I did the Snowdon mara- felt fab to the end

    Couldn't have run over 27m over hills today and feel good tonight without going slow either image

  • Gaz- just get to 60 miles per week... The weight starts dropping I promise. It's a nice benefit of high mileage. I didn't know what hit me before the last mara when I hit 60 miles... I was eating like a horse and disappearing. image)
  • There's more than one way of getting from a to b, and it's possible that any one way may suit some better than others. That said if most literature on the subject states running "easy" should take up a large part of your training there's probably something in it for most folk...that's the way I see it....

    This year I did 3 months of consistent slow running only and improved 1/2 m time from 1:52 down to 1:42. Not brilliant, but good for me...
  • Jason- can you seriously get to the point to where you DO NOT pray for it to be over? Is it physically possible? I thought there's no avoiding the pain in the last 6 miles...
  • TBH Jason my splits for Chester were pretty consistent given the last 3rd of the course was more hilly than the first 19 or so miles (and a 8 m/m for the last mile!).

    You do see a lot of "carnage" by the roadside over the last 6 miles or so though, I wasn't really prepared for that!
  • Mon- perhaps I wasn't pushing hard enoughimage But yep, seriously, felt good to the end- largely i suspect because I felt in control....
  • AGF, I totally agree. If thats the way its done by the experts then thats good enough for me!
  • Hmmm AGF I've been consistently trying to kill myself for a year with weekly track and killer club runs and only managed to go from 1:52 to 1:45 in this time. Think I am doing something wrong...
  • Jason- sounds like a dream race. I like the 'staying in control' thing. I don't normally feel in control at the end, well not at the end of a maraimage)
  • Mon- new feeling for me too- hope it lastsimage.

    Right- the other important elements-? Recovery, rest and proper nutritionimage Night allimage

  • GobiGobi ✭✭✭
    I sometimes run 12 min mile pace
  • Ok sounds like I will have to change to miles to communicate on here...
  • Just been out for a nice but slippy walk..... Looks like it'll b like dancing ice tomorrow am but it'll be really slow!!!

    Like the debate going on and I am glad I wasn't the only person to think that if you didn't train at a certain pace you wouldn't be able to race at that pace. Since slowing down I am certainly seeing a difference on how long I can run at a faster pace for. Stamina certainly improving!
  • Good advice on here about the benefits of slowing it down.The aerobic base im working on just now would probably be faster than the long runs i will do when i start a marathon schedule in the summer.In saying that theres no big distances at all at the minute and most of the runs are @an average 9.30min miles.It all feels very comfortable and theres no sign of niggles anywhere after the really bad lay off i had (3 months)

    Getting to the start line injury  free is my main focus for next year with all my plans built around progressing up to a 16 week plan starting in late may 2012.I want my first marathon to be an enjoyable experience and dont want to just get round and maybe struggle in the last 5 or 6 miles.Ive took little snippets of advice from lots of different people and without being obsessive about it ,i would like to think i have left no stone unturned in the information i have taken on board so far.

    Really looking forward to this marathon and its my intention to give it the best shot i possibly can

    YC

  • I get it now. After 3 days of studying the rules of this thread I have had a Eureeka moment.
    I am doing London 22nd April, Marathon of the North also known as Sunderland (6th May) recovery run image and Berlin in September.

    Am I eligible to join the thread please?
  • GobiGobi ✭✭✭
    Welcome KW - Multiple marathons are common in here

    Todays information drop for you on this fine Saturday.

    It is not about running slowly and definitely not about running slowly all the time.

    It is however about running at the correct pace to allow you to develop aerobically. From this you add the neccessary speed and recovery to gain a successful result.

    Which gets us to recovery running.

    If you feel really crap then often REST is better than those 3 miles, this becomes even more important if you are someone who cannot run slowly.

    Oh and if you get to 5 miles on your "recovery" run then it is no longer a "recovery" run but a training session.

    Just food for thought ......
  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Just to round off last night's discussion, does this sound familiar?

    You went past the 32 km marker a while ago, but now your head is throbbing and you can't think straight. The next marker is a blur - sweat is pouring out of every follicle in your head, rolling down your neck, down your back, down your forehead and into your eyes, which sting from the salt you're losing.

    The face of the Garmin is barely recognisable. You squint at it, and swear when you realise you've slowed down again, but that kilometre/ mile conversion is getting more diificult. What's 35 divided by 1.6?  You have an ache in your left chest, which you keep prodding...is that my heart, or just my chest muscle? Another stab of pain hits your left glute, and you have to land heavily on your right foot to stamp out the cramp in your calf.

    You bolt down another gel and force back the urge to vomit, but the nausea has set in now and you start scanning the crowd, looking for a gap to throw up in.  Where's the next water station? Your throat is dry, your mouth dry, lips cracked. Did you miss the last station?

    You notice a warm iron taste in your mouth - you spit out some blood and realise you have been grinding your teeth and biting your tongue in an effort to keep going. People you passed hours ago are now sprinting past you. You get through the Brandenburg gate but relief turns to dismay when you realise the finish is another half a kilometre away.

    Finally you manage to shuffle your aching mortal coil over the line, grab a plastic blanket and medal, and wait for the shivers to hit you as your body temperature plunges. You missed 4 hours, again, and throw up in a bin.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

     All of this has one root cause - glycogen depletion caused by an inadequate aerobic system. My body is burning huge amounts of carbs to metabolise into energy=> high body temperature => dehydration => nausea => hitting the wall and slowing down / bonking completely => rapid heat loss once you stop / borderline hypothermia.

    Aerobic metabolism is 18 TIMES more efficient than anaerobic metabolism, which means if you can rely on your aerobic capacity and not use much anaerobic effort, you won't run out of glycogen and you won't bonk.

    Only way to improve your aerobic capacity is to run lots, and run slowly - if you run too fast you might be employing some anaerobic effort, meaning you're training in the dead zone (see Gobi's earlier posts)- not fast enough to develop your lactic threshold, not slow enough to make sure every minute goes to improving your aerobic base.

    Thank you Gobi. After 4 years of tinkering with gels, diet, electrolyte solution, I finally see what I've been doing wrong. Don't let the above happen to you. Run your slow runs slow (and that one fast session, fast).

     And welcome, KW.

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    and sorry, Gobi, if I confused this morning's message, as you posted while I was drafting the above short story!

  • teknik - god, hope that doesn't happen to me!! Mind you I am good at slow! It is getting faster that I am bad at..

    Gobi - tried to quote you but I don't think it worked: ''I sometimes run 12 min miles'' - so nice to hear that! My slow pace is about 15mm, my fast is 12mm - so somehow I can just about match your pace!

  • Gobi wrote (see)
    I sometimes run 12 min mile pace
    I usually run 12 min mile pace! You're all speedy gazelles bounding about - slow down, chill a little, smell the flowers, it's fun at the back of the pack...
  • This thread is getting busier every day. Struggling to keep up. Good post Teknik..

    I'm off to buy some new running shoes.

    10km race tomorrow. Anyone else racing this weekend?
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