Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Colin



  • KR /CC2- spooky how Bon Scott and Geordie Brian can sound so similar though eh. Can't beat a bit of ACDC in the headphones - I love Mutt Lange's summary of how he mixed them - Angus in one ear, Malcolm in the other, bass and drums slap bang in the middle. Classic
  • Wierdly Speedy, of all the bands I have seen over the years, AC/DC have been one that have eldued me. There are a few tribute bands knocking about which i want to check out, Livewire 7 AB/CD. Not been to download since it used to be Monsters of Rock back in 1988 (or was it 1987) when Guns & Roses played - now that was a good gig!

    If you like AC/DC with a twist Fraser, check out Hayseed DIxie - a hill billy AC/DC cover band.

  • Black Sabbath, and Metallica playing the Black album in full this year KR. You know you want to!
  • That sounds good Speedy - I do want to! The Black album is another classic and when I hear Enter Sandman it always makes turn up the volume a few notches. Not seen Balck Sabbath since about the late 80's in Brimingham. We went to see the support act (a band called Testament) but ended up staying and watching Black Sabbath. This resulted in us missing the last train home and having to spend the night walking round the streets of inner city Birmingham, which ironically was the best bit!

    5.25 miles this morning, av pace 7.36 and av HR 153 bpm.
    Was supposed to be 8 min miling, but felt good and there was a nice downhill bit, which resulted in a 7.04 mile but it didn't feel like it!

    Tomorrows 13 miler @ 8.20 pace will be at a more controlled pace.

    Good luck to all those racing or doing County XC Champs races today/tomorrow.

  • KR - it's so easy to get carried away. Enjoy the MLR tomorrow. The furthest I have run since my last injury is 7 miles image   In fact did 7 miles this morning inc my parkrun debut (20:18 unofficially - won't bore you all with the details, but have posted on the sub 3:15 thread). Not really into metal I'm afraid, although I don't mind a bit of Led Zep. More of a prog rock man myself image 
  • Good run KR - yes more control tomorrow even when the wind is behind and it's downhill!!!

    I'm not a Black Sabbath fan but like Paranoid and sabbath bloody sabbath and like Gul Darr prefer Led Zeppelin and prog rock.

    well done on parkrun GD - NB Pete T, who was ASICS sub-3 runner last year won Poole in a big PB 16:08

    - I did Kent County today - very unfit and worst ever position and been doing them since 1971 but pleased to get around unscathed.

  • Hi Ruth, thanks for joining the thread, I've got a few questions regarding nutrition to get the ball rolling.

    As I normally do most of my runs in the evening, I tend to either have my dinner at 6.00pm, then go for a run 2 hours later or go for a run then eat later. Either way I still get a bit hungry later. What sort of thing would be good to eat later on in the evening to substitute my sweet tooth (biscuits)?

    I do tend to eat fairly healthly on the whole, is there anything that would be good to eat in the afternoon if I was going for a run in the evening then having my dinner later?

    Dare I ask, are there any foods or drinks I should be avoiding?

    As I have had a few problems with cramp in my calves in the later stages of a marathon, is there anything I can introduce to my diet that will help this? I kbnow you can get electrolyte supplements, but are these best taken on a regular basis rather than the week before a marathon? One to think about!

    Thanks, Colin

    Evening! ,

    Good evening snacks are ones that are nutrient dense/good nutritional value but any snack you choose needs to be portion control for your needs or what you may read as within your energy budget (how many calories you need to optimise body compostition) Good snack choices:

    • Rice pudding with some fresh or tinned fruit (this has carbs, protein and minerals  &  the fruit has the fibre and vitamins).
    • Bowl of wholegrain cereal/porridge (wholegrain always nearly written on  package) and one that is not sugar coated!
    • Low fat natural yoghurt or low fat fruit yogurt with handful of muesli and  dried fruit  or yoghurt and chopped fresh fruit
    • 1-2 slices of malt loaf or similar sweet bread/loaf
    • If you really fancy a chocolate taste a  milky hot chocolate (semi or skimmed milk) as this will have calcium. protein and carbs.
    • 1-2  of slices of wholegrain toast with honey/jam/peanut butter (but choose one with not much extras added) & small glass of milk
    • Any of the above snacks (in a portion that won't cause you any problems) except the hot chocolate or any foods you know do not work well before a run would be good to eat 2-3 hours before running then come in and have your dinner.

    Cramps: I find from the athletes that I see with exercise associate cramp it can be caused by either (or a combination of) not training as you would race so towards end it is a fitnes/intensity that your body is not used to but I also find that those that are salty sweaters (to find out if you are a salty sweaty  wear black t-shirts/shorts in hotter environements and you should see the white patches! or lick your skin when it is sweaty to taste if there is a lot of salt!) are those most prone to cramp  and by having a fluid stategy (for both the possibility of a hot day or a more temperate day) can helped with athletes I know, I also find that it can conincided with running out of carbs/glycogen depletion.  I also agree that being acclimatised helps. In summary a fluid stategy (the right type drink  with higher sodium in it & enough of it without over drinking ),being prepared to race and a carb loading stategy may help! We can work on this?

  • Steve - £10 bonus if you can do a run and listen to the whole of Tales from Topographic Oceans without going mad. Lots of Zeppelin that's great to run to though eh

    That was some great facial hair on those Hillbilly fellas KR - thought they might have families of field mice snuggled away in there Enjoy your long 'un tomorrow. I'm planning 18 at a nice sedate pace

  • If it's any consolation Steve I had a shocker at the Notts County Champs today. I got a horrendous stitch two thirds of the way into the race and pretty much ground to a halt. Had to dig my fingers into my side to enable me to run at all except on the uphills, which were OK, weirdly! Downhill was agony. I lost a good few places to girls I normally beat and finished 11th senior and 16th overall (compared to 7th overall last year). It can only get better!

    Ruth - any suggestions for snacks and recovery for someone who can't eat dairy or soya? Once I've gotten bored with fruit for the day I tend to fill up Nature Valley bars, Nakd bars, 9 bars... you get the idea! Recovery drink is just Lucozade with L-Glutamine and Cherry Active. I tried adding hemp protein powder but it's too grainy, and also pea protein powder but it just clumps up and actually tastes of peas, which is fairly minging when mixed into Raspberry flavoured Lucozade.
  • Steve Marathon Coach wrote (see)

    well done on parkrun GD - NB Pete T, who was ASICS sub-3 runner last year won Poole in a big PB 16:08

     Congrats to Pete - that's pretty awesome.

    Fraser Wells wrote (see)

    Steve - £10 bonus if you can do a run and listen to the whole of Tales from Topographic Oceans without going mad. Lots of Zeppelin that's great to run to though eh

    image Prefer Relayer myself.
  • good parkrun Gul esp.if 7 miles has been your furthest for a while. Well done PeteT on a fantastic time, PB & first psoition - sub 16 is not far away! XC's are always tough esp if not 100% Steve. Good position Speedy given the stitch you had.

    Thanks for the snacks tips Ruth - will put them into practice this week.

    Will be going out for my LSR this evening as we have a few family things on this morning.

  • Ruth- re: "salty sweaters"- I guess I'm in that category, as I am encrusted with a thick layer of salt crystals all over my face, after any race- especially if longer than 1/2  marathon. I also crave salt atthe end of a race- usually all I want to eat are crisps!

    In a previous life as a shooter, I went to malaysia to compete, and we tried a heat chamber to estimate our fluid losses in the expected environmental conditions ( shooters wear a lot of heavy canvas/ leather kit, so you sweat buckets at 30 deg C)- I had the biggest fluid losses in our group, despite being the smallest- so I guess it's a combination of high fluid loss with high salt loss.

    I have developed the habit of using Nuun or zero tablets in all my water, and diluting lucozade sport down with electrolyte tablets, too- any other suggestions? ( interestingly, I have never had cramp, despite the obvious salt loss). Does pre- loading with salt in the days before the race help? ( I have a high salt intake anyway- and relatively low blood pressure).

  • Cheers steve, GD and Kr and well done on your park run to GD. Some good advice from Ruth and think your enjoy stocking up on rice pudding image. Some good running this week KR and hope the long run goes ok today seems like its ticking along nicely.

    Hey Ruth hope your ok and things and good your involved agin this year to image. Just wanted your advice about recovery drinks if you dont mind. I usually have a banana and honey milkshake made with skimmed milk after a run and wondered if that sounded alright?. Its a cheaper option than some of the branded products out there such as 'for godness shakes' and from reading the packets they seem more or less the same as any other choc milkshake, as they all seem to have the same 3:1 carb to protien ratio.

  • I think I am in the salty sweater category too tricialitt which might explain a few things.

    Well done again Pete on a fantastic Parkrun time - that must be about 5.06 ish pace!!? I'm intrigued about the making things yourself situation, not just for recovery drinks, but other foods aswell. When you look at the ingredients, you get a good idea of what goes into things and to be honest it doesn't take much to work things out yourself - sounsd like you have with the recovery drink Pete. A lot of the time you are paying for a branded product be it lucozade or Loyd Grossman pasta sauce.

    13.1 miles tonight in 1.47.44
    Average pace was 8.13 and av HR was 152bpm.
    My overall average pace would have been slower if I hadn't of gone a bit quicker through "hoody park". Didn't want to hang around too long in there as there were no lights and a few unsavoury characters hanging about, so went a bit quicker!

  • That's a good steady run KR - heart rate looks ok - did it go up through hoody park?
  • Surprisingly not, but I was preparing myself for the worst!
  • Thanks KR and think its more around the 5:10 pace but what a few secs between friends image. Good work on your 13 miler and this hoody park sounds interesting! Is that the name you came up with or the councils attepmt to be 'down with the kids'? 

    Your right on the do it yourself front, especially with things like pasta sauces. All its takes is some tinned tomatoes an a few herbs and it definatly beats buying something with lloyd grossmans face on. I guess sometimes you develop trust in certain products though such as lucozade an its worth it but always good to have an understanding of what goes into things.

  • Hoody park is a name i came up with Pete - think it sums the place up!

    Found this up in the loft today Speedy - brought back some memories form the early 90's when I was a bit younger & hairier!


  • Excellent steady run KR.  Nice pace and HR balance.  Which one is Hoody Park then?

    I have to agree with Pete as well about the "do it yourself" sauces, etc.  Tinned tomatoes or passata as a base then add whatever you like.  We add alot of garlic, chillies and herbs but you can copy pretty much any off the shelf sauce you like.

  • Martin - it's Braunstone Park - a different place in the dark!

    I've got a few recipies for Pasta sauce, the key I find is using 3 different kinds of tomato - tinned tomato (good quality), tomato puree and sun dried mediteranean puree.

  • Well done, KR.

    I'm loving your daily updates and commentary about heavy metal bands... I was a big Van Halen fan, but loved the Black album. Some great motivational songs in there for those long slow runs...

    I managed to stick closely to the sub 3:15 plan this week, running a very comfortable 12.2 hilly miles yesterday at 8.18 pace. That made 35 miles for week 1, which I was pleased with after a foot injury late last year. I had to work hard before Christmas to be fit enough to start the mararthon schedule, so heading in the right direction.

    Steve - Do I run tomorrow's 3 x 2m long interval session at the same pace for each 2 mile run? I've never been very good at judging the pace of these sessions, so would welcome your thoughts. I noticed KR managed a very speedy session at similar pace last week, but sadly I'm not quite as quick as him... 



  • Hi Rob, glad to see it's all going to plan so far.

    Schedule for this week:

    Week three: 47M

    Mon: Mon: January 9: 4M easy in approx 35 mins (8:45)

    Tues: January 10: 9M of 1M jog, then 4 x 1M (at 10k pace – sub 6:30) fast, with 400m (2-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog

    Wed: January 11: 8M slow in 65 mins (approx 8:10)

    Thurs January 12: 6M steady in 45 mins (7:30)

    Fri: January 13: Rest

    Sat: January 14: 5M easy in 40 mins or parkrun (5M with warm up etc)

    Sun: January 15: 15M slow in 2:05 (approx 8:20)

  • Thanks KR.

    I noticed that in previous marathon training that you said you didn't do the Monday easy recovery run, running 5 instead of the now scheduled 6 times a week. I bother with that one either as I also do quite a bit of cycling to work when I'm not running. However, this time I've decided to stick to the plan and found I enjoy it - no pressure and set me up for the next day. What about you?

    It'd be interesting to hear from others on the forum about why this is a good idea, given the slow speed of the run.  Does it improve your running economy, or is it purely to aid muscle recovery?

  • Hi Rob - I used to do the Monday night run, but it varied more 6 miles and the pace used to be quicker than I do now. I think it was somewhere between 7.45 - 8.00. I've heard that anything over 5 miles is not a recovery run. I'm liking the slower paced runs as you say there is no pressure and it's getting the blood flowing round your body. Previously I used to run, Mon, Tues, Wed, then either Thurs or Friday depending on knackered I was and then on Sunday. Looking back I was doing a toughish long run of 12 - 14 miles with MP & H<P miles in it on a Wednesday and then doing a speed rep session on the Thursday, when in fact I should have had an easy day instead.

    Looks like I won't be able to go to the gym today as work is very busy (as usual) and I can't just slope off for an hour! I'll probably do some core work at home instead after my recovery run tonight.

  • After last w/e's exertions (5 races in two days) and advice from this board I took it a bit easier last week (Mon - Sun).  Did 56 miles total at average of 8.03mm which is slowest I've managed for sometime. That included a 6 mile tempo run on Weds and parkrun on Sat.  Probably didn't spread the runs out very well because I still felt tired on a couple of occassions image    Probably after effects of last w/e.

    Does anyone else notice the pace of their runs varying by what shoes they're wearing?   This week I've done a fair bit in my Asics Nimbus Gels.  They're my heaviest general running shoe and I deliberately wore them so I went a bit slower (apologies to everyone at Asics!).   I also have a pair of Saucony Triumphs which are a bit lighter and some Mizuno Waveriders which are lighter still.  Out of the three I prefer to wear the Mizuno's especially on longer training runs and tempo sessions.   I currently have a pair of Adidas Adizero Adios for racing which are quite a bit lighter than the Mizuno's and definetely make a difference.  I don't know if anyone has done scientific research on the difference shoe weight makes to your running speed (I'm sure they will have done) but my experience is that it can be quite significant.   My Adidas shoes served me well for my first two marathons and if anyone reading this just runs in standard running shoes but wants to go a bit quicker then I'd definitely recommend investing in some decent racing shoes.  I'm sure Asics make some as well but I've never had any.  Before the Adidas shoes I had a pair of Saucony fastwitch 4's which I loved.    What are other people's experiences? 

  • chs, light shoes will make you run faster, but I also think there is a lot of mental in it. I have racing shoes which I race in and when I put them on, I run faster simply because they are my racing shoes. You may also, consciously or subconsciously, pick routes and shoes to match i.e. heavy shoes for tracks and light shoes for roads. For marathons, it is apparently better to wear slightly heavier shoes with more bounce and energy return rather than flats if you are not a really fast guy. It is only at the 2:4x and faster that shoes start to play much of a role.
  • KR - you saw Metallica for free?! Wow. Jealous much?!

  • Rob - I suggest doing the first one at half marathon pace ie approx 14.00, the second one nearer 13:30 with the third one at slightly up on your 10k pace.

    Shoes do make a difference. I have a great pair of Asics Piranhas which are superlight and impossible not to run fast in them but agree with marathons, they are only really worth very light shoes if you are running sub 2:40. In my current fitness I will only need hob nail boots

  • If I got racing shoes, I would fall in to the category 'all the gear - no idea'!

    Like the folks up mountains who are totally colour coordinated with all their kit bought at the same time and matching each other!image

    Hopefully by April 15th I shall look a little more like I know what I'm doing if I stick to Sam's schedule!image

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