Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Colin

1246765

Comments

  • Speedy Goth, yep I'd say a bit quick...however if you can manage 5x1mile at that pace without a drop off in performance you should be OK. Although it could mean you're not racing fast enough!

     LT reps are 1mile reps and longer

    VO2max are short reps 400's or 90sec hills

  • Fraser, when mara training I do my LSR's in the morning on either Sat/Sun. Ususally try and get out anytime between 7.30 - 9.00am. It did cross my mind about running in the morning as i tend to do all my running at night to fit in with family and work and i agree it is good to be able to do these kind of runs at the same as the race time. I've not experimented with mini carb loading the day before LSR's, might be worth a punt to see what that does. One thing I am going to do in training is taking on a recovery drink at the end of a session. I picked up an SIS recovery bottle on Saturday which does about 10 servings. Does anyone else use these and do you use these after every run? Would have thought just after the more intense runs?

    Imteresting talk about the paces that you do your training at Choisty, seems like you have had good practice at knowing what paces suits you. I think it will be interesting to see what paces will be reccommended from Steve for the different sessions.

  • oscarr wrote (see)

    Thanks 2:50.  Wow, +20% is even slower than I think I could be comfortable with but will give it a try.  +10% is fine.

    oscar, what are your recent races and PBs? How did you determine MP? I think we raced Sundaty at Bearwood.
  • All I want for Christmas is my two fifty marathon wrote (see)
    oscarr wrote (see)
    Thanks 2:50.  Wow, +20% is even slower than I think I could be comfortable with but will give it a try.  +10% is fine.
    oscar, what are your recent races and PBs? How did you determine MP? I think we raced Sundaty at Bearwood.
    Yes, raced Sunday for Reading Roadrunners.  MP is based on my target of sub 4hr and times in 20 mile races when not in mar training (3:00 to 3:02) and pace in marathons before blow up!  Other times are (PB/Current) for 10K 46:20/48:00 - Half 1:44/1:48 - Mar PB 4:10.  I've run much faster 10k and halfs in the past but at age 58 my times are gradually on the up !!  Will be at Tadley XC on 8th Jan.
  • oscarr wrote (see)
     MP is based on my target of sub 4hr and times in 20 mile races when not in mar training (3:00 to 3:02) and pace in marathons before blow up!  Other times are (PB/Current) for 10K 46:20/48:00 - Half 1:44/1:48 - Mar PB 4:10.  I've run much faster 10k and halfs in the past but at age 58 my times are gradually on the up !!  Will be at Tadley XC on 8th Jan.

    I am obviously not an expert at runing aged 58 but the normal conversion rules would say sub 4 is more than possible off your HM times.

    I suppose a lot of the problem is the range of times: your 10k currently is 7:41 and MP for 4 hours is 9:10 and MP+20% is 11:00, about 43% slower than your 10k pace. For me the figures work out at 5:55 for 10k pace and MP+20 is 7:47 so 31% slower.

  • KR- A good alternative to a commercial recovery drink is milk with nesquick powder added, I always used to use sis rego until a guy from the BOA recommended the milk and said it is just as good, more natural and loads cheaper.image oh and a lot of the current olympians are using it as well.

    I tend to agree with Minni on the cramp issue and tend to think the two marathons you ran with cramp, were too fast at the start, the 2010 race where you were held back at the start was your pb race, it could be the reason why ?
    I would also echo others and say no pre race marathon warm up, just some easy first 5 miles, in a marathon there is plenty of time later on to run quick miles,  if you really want to. image

    Paris is quite contained at the start, not the room or superb organistion that London offers and most tend to get to their pens earlier and stake there claim to a place in the caged off pens, so be prepared for the French way of peeing in the open, ladies as well. image

  • Echo what other say about a marathon warm up - I've never warmed up.  Its often just not feasible (ie London).    KR did you do a lot of MP miles in your training previously?  Just wondering if you need to practice that more to help the cramp.  And are you going to try the pickle juice?!?!

  • Minni, I've still got to find pickle juice to see what it actually tastes like, although I have a good idea image.
    I'm definitely coming round to starting off a lot slower than my last 2 attempts, as I think the VLM start did make me go of slower, but ironically, it probably helped. Interesting to hear other people's warm up or lack of before a marathon.

    Shaggy, I remember being at Anfield in the late 80's when the ground was still all standing. At half time we were just hanging around when all of a sudden the crowd parted. The reason - someone didn't want to go to the toilet so decided to just have a pee on the terrace and everyone was trying to avoid the “warm yellow river”!

    Oscar, you've got some good shorter race times there and still improving. I think you should be able to crack that sub 4 hour mark.

    5 miles tonight round the block at a steady 7.23 pace. It's my works Xmas meal tomorrow, so I won't get out till Wednesday, but just keeping it steady this week and not going too mad - well it is Christmas.

  • Oscarr - "at age 58"  -  hurrah, I'm not the thread "old git" anymore !! 
    (Welcome, btw)image.

    Like Minni, I never warmup prior to mara.     

  • Oops - thought I was posting on sub-3:15 there !image
  • Interesting history KR.

    I did Abingdon in October and was well on course for 3hr20. Got hamstring cramps for the first time ever in the last two miles and had to trot/walk in for a 3hr23. On reflection I needed to boost my average weekly mileage (didn't go beyond 44), shorten my taper (5 weeks!) and carb load (I didn't really). In relation to the latter I saw a physio immediately after the race who questioned my salt intake in the final taper week. The gist being that he felt my "low salt" diet is not always conducive to distance running. He recommended using maldern salt granuals liberally on meals in the final week rather than the synthetic stuff.
  • Who was it that swears by eating a packet of crisps a day in the week leading up to the marathon? That might be worth a try!

  • Hi Andy, I think we all need to learn to carb load properly image. I guess I also fall into the low salt intake category, as I'm sure most runners do. I don't add salt to food. It's alway interesting when i visit my parents to see how much salt they chuck in the pan when cooking potatoes and even pasta! I think that is a generation gap thing, although increasing salt intake is probably a good thing. A guy in my running Club swears on a couple of packets of Doritos in the days leading up to a marathon.

    Hi Birch, liking the xmas twist to your forum name!

  • TR loves his crisps as a low tech solution to having enough salt in his diet.

    I'll second the pint of milk as a recovery drink. A clubmate of mine swears by chocolate milk shake afterwards: Nesquick, Drink, Forgoodnessshakes etc. That and a banana should be plenty

    Is it worth putting a pinch of.salt in your drinks on your long runs?
  • CC2 - Speedy Goth wrote (see)
    Who was it that swears by eating a packet of crisps a day in the week leading up to the marathon? That might be worth a try!
    That would be Martin Ho Ho Ho.
  • Indeed I have a few packets in the last few days and some marmite on toast. But I still got stopped by cramp at 23M for the first time this time though. The two possible reasons IMO were salt loss due to how much I sweat being 12 stone running 6:30 pace esp after a winter of running in teh cold at 6am, and a lack of MP work. I also made a deliberate attempt to lift the pace at the 23M point too, which probably didnt help - I was a bit worried that I had too much left in the bank, and I'd struggle to deal with that after the race.

    This time I will do a bit more MP work at the end of long runs, go back to my 20M build up at MP (this yr it was MP +15 secs) and do a bit more MP work. I will also carry a bottle of sports drink that I will chug and finish in the first 10M whilst its easy to drink.

    Also its worth noting that in Macca's book he talks about proper deep tissue hydration taking a week and not the couple of days I give. In this time I will be taking extra bananas and Nuun drinks.

     However I still have some Hammy issues in the  same hammy now so it might not all be due to the above.......but if you dont try and fix it then it will happen again !

  • Four Calling Birch  wrote (see)

    Oscarr - "at age 58"  -  hurrah, I'm not the thread "old git" anymore !! 
    (Welcome, btw)image.

    Like Minni, I never warmup prior to mara.     
    Yep, a sub 4hr before the grand old age of 60 is the target - only got 14 months left !!  Happy to take over the "old git" mantle !
  • I have a bag of Doritos each day for the final three days leading up to the marathon.  Plus I'll add a bit of rock salt to food when cooking.  Never add salt to foods at any point during the year.  I was also advised that a pint a milk is an excellent recovery drink and alot cheaper than sports drinks.  After each run I will have 500ml of milk followed by 500ml of cherry juice (good for anti-inflamatory purposes).  After my longest runs I would also have a sports drink, as well as having one before I leave the house.

    After long morning runs I'll also often have a bagel with a couple of slices of turkey and a poached egg. (carbs and protein)  That is only after the longer runs though.

    I think that stretching and massages will help you in the long run KR.  I know that through the club I got invited to a talk with a nutritionist last year and it was very eye-opening, especially for the week leading up to the race.  As TR says, it is not all about the last couple of days but the whole of the last week.

  • The pace that you are all discussing and all the acronims go way over my head but... the milk recovery drink sounds like something I too can try! Thanksimage
  • All I want for Christmas is my two fifty marathon wrote (see)

    I suppose a lot of the problem is the range of times: your 10k currently is 7:41 and MP for 4 hours is 9:10 and MP+20% is 11:00, about 43% slower than your 10k pace. For me the figures work out at 5:55 for 10k pace and MP+20 is 7:47 so 31% slower.

    The large range is the reason I feel uncomfortable doing my long runs at slower than 10mpm.  Using your range of 31% slower than 10K gets me to approx 10mpm which is my MP plus 60 secs so sounds right.
  • I'm just looking at my pre-marathon race schedule for 2012. I did the Fleet HM this year and really enjoyed it, but next year it's on 25 March which is two weeks later than the RW sub 3:15 schedule suggests. Is that too late? All thoughts welcome. Thanks.
  • Oscarr - like PMJ, I feel that sub -4 is feasible for you given your half times.  
  • Rob: If you want to fit races in the build up I think you just need to following the spirit of the training plan rather than to the letter and make adjustments accordingly. That's what I'm doing anyway with 2or 3 halfs before Brighton (mid April).
  • Thanks AndyV. I probably take the plans too literally at times, but also aware that I need to do my long runs. I guess that means swapping a couple of them around, including doing the 3 hour run planned for week 12 a bit earlier in the schedule. An interesting dilemma given that Fleet HM is also sponsored by ASICS....

    KR - i would be interested to hear what races Steve has lined up for you.

  • Hi Rob, got a few possible races in the pipeline that I've passed onto Steve, so will see what fits in with the schedule best. Was looking at maybe the Wilmslow Half as I've heard it is a good course on 25th March, but that is only 3 weeks till race day. Gut feeling says that's too close?

    Should get my schedule through on Thursday - looking forward to that. I've got a document set up on my computer ready to copy it into - keen would be an understatement!

  • Thanks KR. I am doing London and a week behind you, so a HM on 25 March would be four weeks before the race for me. But, like you, I am not sure if that's too close.

    Let's see what Steve says...

  • Normally I don't see a problem in running a half marathon three weeks before and certainly not 4. I think it varies from individual to individual though. If you are the sort of person who attacks a half as they would a 10k and runs themselves into exhaustion then it's probably a risk doing it 3 weeks before but if you can control it and can go in with a few days taper and on fresher legs then I think it's ok . For KR a sub 1:30 effort with maybe first 3 at marathon pace would not fully exhaust and could be psychologically beneficial but it would depend on what the situation was in March. 4 weeks would almost certainly be ok - a 20 mile race at quicker than marathon pace probably wouldn't.
  • Thanks Steve. Fleet HM it is, then.

    Would you recommend swapping the Sunday run on weeks 10 and 12? (HM and 22M respectively)? Weeks 11 and12 are the big weeks, hitting 55M, so I wasn't sure whether it would be ok to do the bigger miles slightly earlier in week 10 if I swap it around.

    As for 20 mile races, my friend usually does two of them before London. She races them quite hard, which I'm still not convinced is the right way to go....

  • re 20s, I think it depends on individuals endurance. A seasoned marathoner with potential to do ultra races is not going to do any damage racing a 20 but someone with a record of struggling in the last 4-5 miles of marathons may find the 20 takes more out in terms of effort than puts back in terms of gain in endurance. re swapping around races - usually better to swap the whole week so you do a partial taper leading to a half marathon rather than do the race on what would have been your heaviest week. I don't think it matters too much if your peak mile week comes in week 10, 11 or 12 as long as it is more miles than you were doing a month before that and you are sensible in the way you approach each week in terms of long runs, races and harder sessions and rest. I'll come back later in evening to clarify if needed. 
  • Thanks again, Steve. Very clear now. My friend has definitely struggled in the last few marathons in the last 4-5 miles. She's very capable of sub 3.10, but always seems to hit 3.24. She did two 20 mile races this year before London and I'm sure you're right that they took out more than they put in.

    A few more runs planned for me now and then taking cutting back my mileage for Christmas week before the real work begins in the new year...  

Sign In or Register to comment.