Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Colin

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  • CHS - did you manage the 3 parkruns? - I fast jogged two as calf tight. one of my runners set women's course records in both but the logistics of doing Bushy first looked too problematical
  • Hey Colin, did you see the Sunderland/Man City game on Sky?  What a dramatic winner!  MoN is taking up Godly status already!
  • Steve - Yes I managed the 3 parkruns this morning.  Logistics were slightly easier than I'd feared and after starting at Bushy I managed to get to both Nonsuch and Riddlesdown with about 10 mins to spare each time.  Were quite a few of us that did all 3.   Times not so great for me but I was reasonably happy given conditions and after yesterday's efforts.  20.12 at Bushey, 20.59 at Nonsuch which was quite slippery and 21.04 at Riddledown which was very slippery.   Think I'll take it easy tomorrow image   
  • well done on doing the trio CHS - yes rest would be advisable!
  • Well done on getting 3 Parkruns done in one morning chs - a good session for a Saturday morning?

    Stats from Saturdays' Parkrun:

    1 mile warm up, 8.46, av HR 145bpm

    Parkrun 19.11, av HR 184bpm
    (HR seems a bit high to me, but have had a bit of a lingering cold for the past week which is working it's way round our house)
    mile 1 - 6.01, HR 177 bpm
    mile 2 - 6.16, HR 186 bpm (includes wrong direction & double back)
    mile 3 - 6.10, HR187 bpm
    0.1 mile - 5.48, HR 193 bpm

    1 mile warm down, 8.23, HR 153bpm

  • yes heart rate looks a bit high - even for the warm up - first mile slightly quick probably added to the rate during the 5K
  • Happy new Year to everyone - hope you had a good night.

    We were visiting friends in London and saw the New Year in with a group of other friends at their house. Had a bit of a late one and surfice to say my planned 8.00am 12 mile run didn't happen this morning. After getting oursleves & 4 kids ready (not all mine BTW!) we headed into central London to catch some of the New Years day parade. After an hour travelling into Trafalger Square we were greeted with a lot of rain and a lot of people. So after braving the rain and getting wet & cold for half an hour and just about seeing glimpses of the parade though the rest of the drenched crowd we made our way back. Finally got back to Leicester at 7.30 tonight. Kids were knackered so it was straight to bed for them and off out for a run for me…

  • Steve Marathon Coach wrote (see)
    yes heart rate looks a bit high - even for the warm up - first mile slightly quick probably added to the rate during the 5K
    Still getting to grips with the HR side of things and translating them to what they mean in training. I do think as I've not been feeling 100% recently that might explaing the higher HR. This si the first time I have used a HR monitor so it is a shame I haven't got data from previous runs to compare these too.
  • So tonights run was 12.5 miles, av pace 8.10 & av HR 153bpm

    My nutrition today left a lot to be desired, bacon & egg butty for breakfast, a couple of ham rolls for lunch and a packet of Quavers & 2 mini muffins in the car back from London - not ideal ahead of a 12 mile run!

    mile 1 - 8.03, 143 bpm
    mile 2 - 7.57, 148 bpm
    mile 3 - 8.07, 153 bpm
    mile 4 - 8.13, 152 bpm
    mile 5 - 8.20, 154bpm
    mile 6 - 8.21, 153bpm
    mile 7 - 8.17, 153 bpm
    mile 8 - 8.06, 152 bpm
    mile 9 - 8.15, 154 bpm
    mile 10 - 8.12, 159 bpm
    mile 11 - 8.01, 157bpm
    mile 12 - 8.07, 1.58 bpm
    0.5 mile - 8.15, 154 bpm

  • Happy New Year KR. Good MLR to start the year with a fairly consistent HR and evenly-paced.
  • Well done for getting out at all after all that KR!

    You may just have a high HR. I seem to. I don't find the strap comfortable so don't wear it anymore, but I regularly saw figures well above my estimated 'max' heart rate (220-age) in races and hard sessions when I did use it.
  • KR - good running last night. As Speedy says you may have a high HR. You will be able to get more out of the stats when you start to do the same runs over again so that you have comparisons. It really does vary from person to person. Did they give you any information about maximal HR when you had all the tests done at the training day?
  • Agree your heart rate just looks generally higher than norm and doesn't necessarily mean you are pushing too fast. Well done on the 12 if not the diet preparation - pace and HR looks consistent
  • For those that missed my first 4 weeks plan, here's how this week looks:

    Week two: 43M

    Mon: January 2: 4M easy in approx 35 mins (8:45)

    Tues: January 3: 9M of 1.5M jog and strides, then 3 x 2M (at 10k- 1/2M pace – ie 13 to 13:30) fast, with 400m (3-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog

    Wed: January 4: 7M slow in 58 mins (approx 8:20)

    Thurs January 5: 1M, then 3M at 1/2M pace (7:00 pace), 1M

    Fri: January 6: Rest

    Sat: January 7: 5M easyin 40 mins or parkrun (5M with warm up etc)

    Sun: January 8: 13M slow in 108 mins (approx 8:20)

  • I had to go and pick up my bike from work today so tied that in in with my easy run this evening.

    4.29 miles, av pace 8.29 average HR was 141 bpm
    mile 1 - 8.38, 137 bpm
    mile 2 - 8.10, 141 bpm
    mile 3 - 8.21, 143 bpm
    mile 4 - 8.34, 143 bpm
    0.29 mile - 8.28, 144 bpm

    Intersting to see that my HR was lower tonight - must have been the slower pace.
    It's going to be a busy day for the reycling lorry tomorrow, it looks like everyone has got at least 10+ bags to collect - I like to notice wierd things like that!

  • HR looks much more sensible today KR.  My easy runs usually come out at about 7.50-8.00 m/m at 135-140bpm ave.

    We also have about 10 bags of recycling. image

  • KR - Good stuff getting out after a hassle filled day. Wonder if that partially explains high HR for that run. I suspect I might have binned it and gone for the bed option. I suppose that's one of the consequences of public scrutiny - CNBA is not an option !
  • Hi KR
    I use a HR belt but take the occasional illogical very high reading with a pinch of salt. I tend to focus on the longer term trend of my recovery/easy run HR's to assess my fitness level.

    If you don't do it already try applying water to the HR belt contact points before running. I find this improves reading accuracy particularly in the first few miles.

    Finally a minor point. If the purpose of your recent 12.5m run was an LSR watch the pace and save your energy for the harder sessions. Some of the miles seem a touch too quick to me. "Tread water" in the early weeks. This said well done in banking the run despite other commitments.
  • Good relaxed run tonight. Agree with Andy V, you need to watch the pace on the longer runs but probably at this stage with the mileage fairly low and early in the schedule it's not quite as crucial when you get into the heavier mileage where recovery is essential.

  • Thanks for the comments Andy & Steve. In a way I am learning to run the slower runs at a slower pace than I would normally do them, but I think I am getting there - slowly!

    Some stats for last weeks running for the data geeks out there (me included!)

    Week 1
    Total milage - 39.2 over 6 runs
    Fastest mile - 6.01
    Slowest mile - 8.46
    Average pace - 7.54
    Average HR - 156 bpm

  • Hi KR, looking good so far and well done on your parkrun. Shame about going the wrong way but weve all done it or maybe its just you and me image. I notice youve said the millage is slightly lower but quality rather the quantity is definatly what i found last year and the introduction of more faster sessions which you said have been lacking should really set you on your way. Hope you braved the wind an rain today, it was crazy out there!
  • Tough run tonight with the faster reps, the wind and dodging fallen branches on the pavement. A bit of a late one tonight as I cooked/ate dinner and put the kids to bed before gonig out (around 8.45 pm).
    Session consisted of 3 x 2 miles with 3 minute recoveries.

    9.5 miles altogether including warm up, jog/walk recoveries and warm down.

    Warm up, 1 mile - 8.26 pace, 142 bpm
    4 x 100m strides
    First 2 mile set - 12.47, av. pace 6.22, 174 bpm
    Second 2 mile set - 12.55, av pace 6.26, 177 bpm
    Third 2 mile set - 12.51, av. pace 6.23, 178 bpm
    Warm down, 2.3 miles, av. pace 8.15, 156 bpm

    Hi Pete, yes likeing the quality in some of the sessions and the mixture of paces that have been suggested. I know it is a combination of both elements that will hopefully make a difference.

    Hi Steve, have you any idea of what races I should be aiming for in the coming months? I know some of the half marathons tend to fill up quite quickly. Thanks.

  • Very consistent last night KR, especially with the gusting winds.  I do like the number of quality sessions you seem to be running.  Worked really well for Pete last year.

    The guys from the club only ran just under 5 miles last night so I had to tag another couple of miles onto the back end to make it worthwhile.  Not a nice night to be outside though.

  • Hi Martin, it might be a few weeks before I come down the Club as I would prefer to do the prescribed sessions in the plan rather than unknown adhoc runs at the Club. It's a shame we don't have a more structured training plan at the Club. Will see what is coming up in the next block of training from Steve when he posts it up. Can feel last nights session in my legs today - which is a good sign image. Going to see about booking an induction at the local gym today, as it is a council gym they were closed all Christmas!

    First day back at work today after looking after the boys yesterday, so my brain is just about getting back up to speed. It's weird, at home I only have 1 cup of tea all day and yet at work will have about 5/6! Have to drink Green tea though as anything more than 1 cup of normal tea is image.

  • Gym induction booked for this Friday, so will be able to use it after that.

    Given the running schedule Steve, what would be the best day of the week to do weights?

  • KR - Agree with the lack of structure at the club on Tuesdays.  Something maybe to look at at the next AGM.  Also agree that you are better following your schedule than coming down for a more social run.  You can do that in May image.

    Not sure what Steve will say about weights but I usually do them on my easier days so that I am not taking too much out of my body on the same day as a hard run.

    I did my normal 4 mile easy lunchtime run today.  Put my HR strap on outside the gym instead of inside as usual and my HR was all over the place.  Within the first mile I had readings as high as 187bpm which is about the same as the end of a short race even though I was just taking it easy.   Over time you will get to trust the readings!!!

  • KR - good point about the clash between your personal schedule and cub nights - I have come to the same conclusion that you must follow your own cos the club are catering for a wide variety of standards + different race distances + different target races.  Sometimes I will go to the track club night, join in the warm up then do my own speed session according to my plan which no-one minds and I get to see friends etc.  Also see a lot of our club runners at the XC season races and most of the local 10k/10m/half races as well.
  • Very good session  on the 2 mile efforts.HR held up well. I usually prefer doing weights on the very easy days ie Monday and Friday - if focussing more on arms/back/core then I was also happy doing on Wednesday post run.

    yes worth entering races seem to recall you mentioned Retford Half early March and Desford 10k in February but a couple of good quality halfs are worth gaving in the plan. I think best to choose a race you'd like to do and then we fit the training around rather than just find a race on any suitable day

  • Many congratulations on your selection Colin and a very happy new year to all on this thread.

     My name is Ruth, the Pro Team Dietitian. I am really looking forward to following your journey on the way to Paris and to others who may be doing other spring marathons.

    I will only be on the thread a couple of times per week  but I will do my very  best to answer all questions!

  • KR - I know that cramp has been a major issue for you stopping you achieving your target time in the past. Have a look here: http://teamsky.cyclingnews.com/tech-features/how-to-stop-cramp-team-sky’s-expert-guide/

    although it's about cycling, there are some interesting points raised:

    "good conditioning is crucial, especially when heat is likely to be a factor. “This is particularly the case for athletes in this country who become conditioned to the moderate temperatures we have,” he says. “If you take the London marathon as a example. It takes place in April and people train for it during coldest part of the year. Every now and then we get a freak hot day for the marathon itself and runners end up dropping out left, right and centre because their bodies are not conditioned for the heat. But the body can be conditioned to cope with hot temperatures – you can heat acclimatise.”"

    "In Grainger’s experience, cramping can also be reduced by strength conditioning. “Anecdotally – and there’s not a lot of evidence backing this up – but certainly from a clinical experience when we get people in who have had regular problems with calf cramps or hamstring cramps, when we put them through some strength testing, muscle flexibility testing and muscle strength endurance testing we often find that they are not as strong as we’d like them to be. Going through a strengthening programme can often reduce the number and intensity of the cramps, or delay the onset of them.

    “There certainly seems to be a bit of a fitness issue relating to cramp – not necessarily cardiovascular fitness, but muscular fitness in specific areas of the body and these deficiencies can be worked on. Certainly it would pay for someone who is getting regular cramps to go and visit a sports physiotherapist who is going to have some experience in testing strength and strength endurance around that area.”

    It seems that some S&C work may be key then in getting through a marathon without cramping?
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