Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Lee

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  • The video is up fo the traning day last Saturday, I think I look very heavy...any comments? http://ow.ly/8PFy1
  • 2:17 guy is fast. Never mind he is older and slower, I am sure it is worth a few minutes as these guys have a lot to teach. I used to run with the world 100 mile record holder, wish I could chat to him now but he sadly died a couple of year ago before he even got to 60.
  • Lee - had a quick look at the video. Looks like you all had a great day and the group certainly seem cohesive and supportive.

    It does seem generally like the whole competition this year is generating less controversy and RW have thought about how to adapt it be better than before. Certainly at the moment you all seem to be training pretty perfectly.

    Oh - and you don't look remotely fat ! The camera can be a cruel mistress but I think you get away with itimage

  • Lee

    I don't think the camera makes you looks as fit and slim as you really are but certainly not fat!

  • Big respect for being the only one in shorts and t-shirt that day Lee. It was very nippy!

    Fit not fat!

  • Fat? No way - strong, powerful and fast more like!
  • Thanks for the fit not fat comments, but looking at Steve on the video; he is all chiselled cheek bones and perfect poise, where as I look bulky and as if I'm plodding.

    PMJ 2:17 is fast, he views himself as a good runner although nothing special, but acknowledges the level of commitment and hard graft he put in, averaging 160miles a week!  Also he ran a mile on the track flat out and looked at his watch noting lightly that it was a marathon spit!

    Fraser, was there a bit of a set-to last year then?

    last night's session - On a cold bleak evening, running by myself, I produced a truly poor performance. I was supposed to run 40min of 1min alternating Jog/Marathon pace (6:06)/10k pace (5:30).  It was very dark and see the Garmin for pace as the battery was low and wouldn't have lasted the session if I had used the light.  This is pace per spit after a mile warm-up:

    set 1:   6:21 / 5:50 / 5:15
    set 2:   7:34 / 5:40 / 5:23
    set 3:   7:28 / 5:27 / 5:18
    set 4:   7:22 / 5:28 / 5:21
    set 5:   7:21 / 5:22 / 5:09
    set 6:   7:59 / 5:26 / 5:19
    set 7:   7:48 / 5:26 / 5:23
    set 8:   7:51 / 5:31 / 5:23
    set 9:   7:49 / 5:29 / 5:18
    set 10: 7:59 / 5:33 / 5:11
    set 11: 7:58 / 5:28 / 4:57*
    set 12: 7:58 / 5:57 / 5:31
    set 13: 7:53 / 5:45 / 5:25
    *the main group from the club came through and I couldn't help racing Sean our fastest runner (he won) however looking at the net two sets it demonstrates the impact this had!

    The whole session was 8.7miles completed in 55:57 at an average pace of 6:26.

    I think this shows that my pacing is dreadful and I push too hard, most worrying is that the marathon pace reps are far too similar to the 10km reps.  On a positive note the session was completed and the most pain was as my fingers defrosted, it should have been a double glove night! (-7 where we were).  It was run over a mildly undulating course so I would expect some variability in the splits.

  • Lesson from the ladies camp - never, never ever go comparing yourself to someone else - especially those whose chiseled cheeks you envy! That way madness lies.  The shorts you're wearing are not the most slinky and that's all! 

    I'm veering towards mittens if this cold sticks around since they're warmer but think Steve might disown you though for wearing tights AND mittens - whatever next! image

    Am glad in a strange way that even someone as talented as your good self can still get your pacing wrong - it means you have a lot to gain from this process and the more you learn the more we do...

    Our club opted for an off-road head torch social extravaganza last night - not very structured but got to appreciate the beauty of a frozen grassy hill top view of the town lights below!

  • Sleepy Bear, that sounds beautiful, especially compared to my laps of a housing estate!  I don't own mittens, are yours wooly ones your gran knitted or super dooper running ones?

    When it comes to pacing, my problem is going off to hard and forcing myself on, not good for a marathon, I need a strategy to sort it out

    Must stop comparing myself to racing snakes

  • They're super dooper mountaineering fleecy lined lobster claws - treasured possessions after much time spent feeling the cold on top of Scottish munros.  And once I get warm and take them off I bundle one up in each hand they stop me scrunching up my hands (causing shoulder tension). It has to be extreme for me to dig them out of my rucksac though!

    My OH has the same learning curve to face when he finally gets round to trying a marathon - it's a funny game eh - we spend all our time trying to get faster for longer and then it's time to rein yourself in! But that's why you have Steve keeping an eye on you - you just have to LISTEN and DO. Maybe bundling yourself up in layers on your slower sessions will be the only way to slow you down a bit - then you won't have to go so fast to keep warm!

    How are you defining a racing snake exactly? I think you might already be one!! image

    (p.s. the longer hair in the video suit you!)

  • Hands were significantly better using double gloves today, although they are still a little painful from last night (plus slightly swollen and white)

    I'm good at listening, it is the doing I struggle with.  However after last nights exploits I did manage a truly easy run today; 10km in 42mins, along the Wey navigation, of which parts were frozen over, beautiful blue sky, sun shining, I completely lost myself in the run...until a surly postman rode into me or I ran into him, depending on which side of the ensueing debate you were on!

    Thanks for the hair complement, now it's growing back I like the idea of showing it off to the world!

  • What was it Yoda said again - do OR do not - there is no try!? Something like that.

    If it was me being told to go faster I could justify the word 'can't' (but only for now!) and whilst it may feel odd to go a bit slower - yours is not a case of 'can't'.  I guess you have to have a little chat with yourself - how badly do you want  to do as well as you could in Paris?  And if slowing down when you're told to is what will make the difference ... 

    I'm sure your flash watch must have too fast / too slow beeping capabilities - use your listening strength to combat your weakness and make sure you are recovered enough to get the maximum benefit out of  the sessions when you are allowed to push yourself.

    I'll stop nagging now - you know all this already - I just want to see you do as well as you humanly possibly can.  

    Glad you had a lovely run today and hope that the tyres marks washed off and that no-one got hurt. 

  • probably best to do the session far too quick with poor pacing in February than not have the fitness to reach the targets and be too slow.

    Must do better with pacing though unless you do actually are planning on 5:30 pacing in the marathon!

    The marathon pacing needs work but it is easier to adjust to the right pace with accurate kilometre markers and timing clocks as per Paris when you know you have 26 miles ahead than it is in the dark on a freezing cold day and you can't see the watch and are only running 7 of so miles. Because you were going too quick doing marathon pace then obviously harder in this session to get the contrast when you do the 10k pace.

    Not sure about the chiselled cheek bones which must also be optical illusion as due to only running a handful of times in January, I'm a stone overweight and calf pulled again in first run in February.

    good you had a good easy run today. I did a 10k timetrial and much faster but only because was on a bike and it was over 5 minutes down on my best but felt hard. I'll blame it on the cold

  • Thursday was certainly cold Lee, that's why the main group did a Fartlek (and kept moving) rather than the planned 1000mtr Reps.  image

    When I saw you in the changing room after I did not realise it were your hands that were cold; thought you were rubbing something else.  image

    Have to admire your deterimination to complete a long session in those conditions, especially round that featureless estate on your own.

    Still only a week to go & some of us will be piling in the miles in "sunny" Norfolk.

  • Choisty, you say that racing your colleague in rep 11 had a big impact on the next 2 reps, but if you look at the times, your last 2 were probably the closest you got to your proposed MP and 10Kpace.

    As long as your weren't completely exhausted after the session then i wouldn't have though it's to much of a problem to be doing the sessions a bit too quick. although doing a 5:10 - 5:20 mile in the first mile of the marathon might come back to haunt you later in the race

  • A 5:10 mile (2:15 pace!) when you only need 6:17 for a 2:45 will require a full exorcism rather than a haunting!

    In sessions where you are trying to practice pacing, it's irelevant when you get it wrong whether they do exhaust you (and what Choisty did here, certainly wouldn't have done) but all good racing requires a disclipline and judgement and these sessions are the test whether you have this inner timing feel for pace. It doesn't come easy to everyone.

    It's not so important to get it wrong now but would be worried if anyone trying this sort of session couldn't get much closer to the required paces in April!

  • Today was a different story met up with my buddy James, we ran then first 12 together, at between 6:49 and 7:03 pace very even if edging toward quick. He then increased the pace and ran away, leaving me to get lost running constant 6:46 for the next 7. Before a letting go of the leash to run a 6:29 last mile. A good 20 completed before the snow put pay to the rest today's plans.

    Pacing 1 v choisty 1

    A really good run
  • Steve, how are you a stone overweight? How fast is 10km on a bike? And you are chiselled, like all distance runners. I don't think I am ready for a 2:15 yet! Although I have been known to go off at that pace in shorter races.


    Sleeping bear, I will continue to battle mt pacing demons and maybe one day come out on top!

    Otis, I agree they were the closest to target but because sub-5 added lactic to my legs
  • Choisty - a mixture of very little running, possibly bigger legs from cycling and eating too much. Was a fraction under but mostly a fraction over 70kg every year from 1976 to 2010 but was up to 78kg last week but this week making an effort before hoping belatedly starting marathon training in next 2 weeks!

    Certainly all good distance runners are not chiselled but years of marathon training (35 in my case) will make a difference.

    On my best bike and in warm conditions based on my 10 mile best I could do a 10k in just under 15 mins but was over 20 on a not too hilly circuit yesterday.

  • Choisty wrote (see)

    Thank you Ruth I have made a couple of changes, I now have 2 breakfasts, one at home and one when I get to work (I was very naughty and treated myself to cheese scones today!).  I also have nuts/dried fruit in my desk as a snack, plus I have cooked every night using the rule of 3 colours of veg.  The only thing is my stomach is still coming to terms with the changes.

    I've just completed todays run 9 miles, wonderful run cold crisp as the sun was setting, it felt like I could run forever.  But I have to admit I wore tights for the first time so was much warmer than recent days!


    Stomach may take a week or so to enjoy the changes.

     You don't look fat! However I do think you should, when training for a marathon, keep a note of your weight as it can help to assess how you run best (if keep a record of weight for all marathon). Body fat measures would also be useful but  body weight is fine.  Weigh yourself at the same time on the same scales each week (but ensure the scales are not too inaccurate) but don't get obsessed it takes away from the fun of it all. If you did need to reduce food you would still eat as you are doing but reduce the portions and over a few weeks your weight woud come down but I do not think you need to do this!

  • Yeyyyy Lee -  that's the spirit! 

    Gotta agree with him Steve - you are pretty chiselled - think you might just have to accept it!  Unless you were just pouting for the camera image

  • agree with Ruth you don't need to lose weight. Being chiselled doesn't help speed - today ran about 90 mins in snow and averaged about 12 min miles!

    last years asics faster runner Pete ran well at Chichester - 33:32 with a 16:12 2nd half  - almost 2 minutes off his PB

  • Jeepers, that is a fast time and an amazing amount to take off in one go.  Chichester was yesterday, my uncle raced it.  It was after my Dad's 65th b'day celebration unfirtunatlely the snow was so hard I couldn't drive down grrrr! What did Pete run for the marathon?

    Ruth my wieght has been consistent (I weight myself first thing monday morning) last 3 weeks have been;  68.1, 67.9, 68.0.  It seems a little heavy as I tend to run best off 65.5 - 66.5.

    SB, looks like I will have to accept it but it doesn't sit well as I have never felt slim, I think this is due to being very skinny when I was in my late teens about 57 - 59kg, running was easy then!  The BUPA assessment was good though, it showed my lean wieght to be 60.8kg, so I will never see sub-60kg again!

    Club mates secured another excellent performance coming 2nd in the Hants road race league and Sean especially (3rd overall, 1st V40) at Ryde 10M, fantastic running.  I have to admit to pangs to race yesterday.

  • Choisty have faith - Ruth and Steve will make sure you're at your best.  (Running was much easier for us all back then image)

    You can help me make a decision - it'll be interesting to hear a different point of view  - I've just entered a 10k (not a target race particularly - it just sounds like a nice route and is to raise money for a local hospice) 3 weeks before my spring half (target race). 

    Should I aim to : a) run my little socks off and see where I'm at just now 10k wise b) run half at target HMP, then half at 10k pace or c) run all at target HMP.  I keep going round in circles on this one - all this talk of running certain amounts at certain paces is obviously being processed by my brain too. The theory is surely applicable to all distances? 

    From experience - I'm fine the day after a 10k (I know - I should push myself harder it seems) so I'm not too concerned about carrying on with my training as planned afterwards and I've swapped round the previous week so that I do my long run midweek instead.  Any thoughts or tips?

  • As it is 3 weeks out and you are doing it anyway I would go all out and enjoy the fitness.  Steve and I have a 10km planned for me 3 weeks out (Eastleigh) where I hope to have a good run.
  • Pete ran 2:49 at Paris but was only really targetting sub-3 and so should be much quicker at London.

    re 10k SB - I would probably try and ease through the first half at slower than target pace but attack the second half. Pete ran 17:20 first half and felt comfortable and 16:12 second half. Most people who run that sort of time do a first half of 16:30 and hang on for a second half of 17:00 - have no doubt which is best way to do it but such an extreme fast second half suggests a faster time is achievable with more even pace

    For marathons you can't really race it regularly beforehand but a 10k one of the best training effects for a 10k is to actually race a 10k and you can run a couple as preparation without damaging the main goal.

  • Steve - can i join the race pace chat please?  I have 2 Half Mara races in my 16 week schedule at end of weeks 7 and 11 so the second one is 5 weeks out.  I was planning to race these 2 fast as i can - any thoughts?  (I have no other races in this period and will be doing 40 to 45 miles per week) 
  • Yes Oscarr I would race both of them sort of flat out but might be tempted in second one to run first mile or two at goal marathon pace. It will lose you a bit of time initially but will ensure a steady start, help your pacing under race conditions and also should mean you are going through the field later and have a stronger second half.
  • Thanks Steve.
  • Ok - better get my lucky socks ready then! 

    Am I working this out about right : aiming for target pace +15 seconds for first 5k, then target pace - 15 seconds (or faster if feel able) for second half? Just trying to get my head round it so I can work out roughly where I want to be by each mile marker.

    Thanks guys -  really helpful! image

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