Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Lee

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  • The evening session was tough, it actually worked out like this 1.5mile warm-up, 2.25km reps with 400m jog recoveries, the reps were run at the following paces 5:49, 5:47, 5:43, 5:40, then warm down for a total of 10miles.  The total time for 10km during the reps was 35:54, which amazed me as that is pretty quick.  This is the hardest session I have completed for sometime and left me tired, nauseous and in pain...but very happy and smilingimage.  The reason I ran 2.25km was that 1 lap = 750m so completed 3 laps as one rep, that way I could run with my club mates whilst completing the prescribed session.  It was then up to the bar for a beer, packet of twiglets and the club committee meeting.

    I am so looking forward to only 5 today, although my legs are jaded.

  • well done - a good hard session well completed with good control and strong finish. you deserve an easy day.
  • Steve MC, question for you. 

    My week at the moment is basically controlled by the need to free up as much time at the weekend as possible. When I am racing I therefore use this as a speed session and do a LSR and MLR mid-week. If I am not racign at the weekend I will sneak in a short one but then I have three quality sessions for the week with temp, LSR and MLR.

    What is the best order for LSR and MLR if they are two days apart and where to put them into the week? I am currently looking at LSR Tues, recovery, MLR Thurs simply as I would prefer to start the LSR with fresher legs.

    What is the best order to fit tempo, LSR and MLR into a week if they are done Mon, Wed and Fri?

    Thanks

  • Hi Lee,

     well done on getting through and going well so far.

    just a reminder to find a small space to do your core and tretching exercises we mentioned at boot camp.

    A good time is part of your warm down.

    See you in a few weeks for an mot.

    Sarah

  • Sarah,  I have added the core excercise into my daily routine (i've missed a few days) and I stretch after every run, so loads at the moment, interesting I got a really good score at BUPA for flexibility making more determined to keep it that way.  Whilst I have muscle soreness (thanks to Steve) the rest is holding up well.  I'm looking forward to the next session, shame it is the same day as the Southern Cross Country Champs and I will ahve to hot foot it from a sales conference, so I might not be too fresh!
  • Today's run was both fantastic and horrible, the later first, my legs just did not want to play I was in all sorts of problems from the start, stiff, painful, wooden legs combined with running on empty, a packet of twiglets was all I ate last night!  On the positive side the air was still, the temperature perfect, blue sky reflecting off of the river as I ran along a perfect day for an easy bimble out.
  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭
    Blimey Choisty that's some diet Sarah has got you on! image

    Do you think there is a link between eating twiglets and getting stiff wooden legs?
  • PMJ

    Before answering your question, I would make the point that In ideal world I suppose it would be better if there were more than 2 days between the two key sessions of the week so a long run Saturday and main speedwork Tuesday would be preferable in many ways. I actually think it easier to do a long run two days after the hard speedwork rather than the speedwork after but on the assumption that the long run is the key session of the week, it is probably best to do that on slightly fresher legs than the speedwork. Doing a long run on already tired legs and suffering in the final third of the run can do more harm than good for training over the next 7 days.

     I know your question was more on the medium long run though but given your 3 days and order to do them in. I would probably suggest best to go with the order of LSR, MLR, tempo as the middle one is the least important of the 3 and it gives two more days recovery for the tempo.

  • No dietician but not sure Ruth would fully approve of the diet there and I would think about replacing the chocolate with something like banana or dried fruit or cereal/energy bar
  • I'm almost certain she would approve of the twiglets though!
  • Steve Marathon Coach wrote (see)

    PMJ

    Before answering your question, I would make the point that In ideal world I suppose it would be better if there were more than 2 days between the two key sessions of the week so a long run Saturday and main speedwork Tuesday would be preferable in many ways. I actually think it easier to do a long run two days after the hard speedwork rather than the speedwork after but on the assumption that the long run is the key session of the week, it is probably best to do that on slightly fresher legs than the speedwork.

    Steve, thaks for the answer. So if I take it that long Sat and speed Tues is the way then these are equivalent with a long run, two days recovery or rest, a speed session, a day recovery, a medium and a day recovery to start the next cycle:

    Long Sat
    Speed Tue
    Medium Thur

    Long Wed
    Speed Sat
    Medium Mon

    Long Thur
    Speed Sun
    Medium Tue

  • Hello to all, this is my first time checking this thread and it looks like there should be lots of tips to pick up as choisty progresses towards race day, i'll be targetting a similar time i hope.

    PMJ has touched upon something that i've been pondering when trying to structure my own marathon prep, i'm looking to combine the LSR, 8 km of 10km pace track work, and a medium long run that incorporates an increasing amount of MP effort...based on what steve has said above would it be best to have the medium run with mp on the thurs prior to a lsr on the saturday? I remember reading somewhere the body recovers faster from tempo style workouts (ie mp) than intervals....

    Thus is the best option the following.....?

    Tues - 8km of track work
    Thurs - 12 mile including 4-8m @ MP
    Sat - LSR

    as opposed to having the tues/thurs sessions the other way round?

  • Chingoncito and PMJ - yes I think your suggestions are both sensible options,

    Lee likes to do his main speedwork session on Thursday due to the club session that night but most schedules tend to keep the harder session earlier in the week and away from the next weekend. I don't think there is much between the options unless you wanted to do a very good race at weekend and a hard Thursday session then would not be advisable.

  • From tomorrow at stupid o'clock I am off to Miami for a week (work!) so there may be a less posts from me, but I will try and keep everyone informed about progress.  The Hotel has a 3 mile running track in the grounds so everything look set, just the long run route needed.  I will switch this to Sunday this week, and may move the tempo run to tuesday depending on the state of my legs.

  • Choisty wrote (see)

    .The Hotel has a 3 mile running track in the grounds so everything look set, just the long run route needed.

    Long run 18 miles, 6 laps, 21 miles, 7 laps, easy peeps!
  • I might get just a bit dizzy! The idea I have is to see if I can run to Kay biscayne. At the moment I am sat in heathrow looking at the sunrise wishing there was a perimeter running track that could be used preboarding, would be a good use of time.
  • Good luck in the old US of A.
  • Cheers, I am a week too early for the Miami marathon and there are no races this weekend! So no competition vs the Americans which is a shame.
  • Choisty wrote (see)
    Cheers, I am a week too early for the Miami marathon and there are no races this weekend! So no competition vs the Americans which is a shame.
    I hav regular trips and try my best to find races, but I tend to fly in and out at weekends so miss races. I did, however, manage to hook up with a 5k mid week summer race on Long Island and medalled, so that was nice.
  • Have a good trip and keep up the good work where it is possible to do so.
  • Choisty wrote (see)

    Ruth Hello, I am pleased to see you as diet is something alien to me, mine consists of eating anything that I can get my hands on, for example my intake yesterday was:

    Breakfast - bowl of muesli
    Mid morning - a couple of chocolates
    Lunch - sandwiches (ham, cheese & pickle), 2 apples, 2 satsumas & 1 banana
    MId afternoon - a couple more chocolates
    Dinner - pasta & tomato sauce, with a homemade corned beef pasty, followed by a small portion of homemade rice pudding

    I sometimes "bonk" on a run, these are generally the easy runs the day after a hard session, and will take 2-3miles to get over it.

    Steve I will see who turns up tonight, if there is a good group at the quick end I will run 750's otherwise I will break out on my own.  I will focus on discipline!

    Hi Lee

    You look lean in your photo! but I won't meet you until the end of the month but how do you feel your body fat level is and what is your weight and height?

    Here are a few suggestions I would make initially (you diet is not maximising your training):

    1. Add a glass of  pure fruit juice (150-200ml) at breakfast for example a glass of orange juice would increase antioxidant intake , B- vitamins including folic acid and increase carbs and fluid intake.
    2. Mid- morning /mid-afternoon: snacks instead of chocolate could include: a pot of low fat yoghurt/rice pudding & fruit or 1-2 slices of malt loaf or a granola type cereal bar & piece of fruit or a jam/honey/banana sandwich  if need something more.
    3. Suggest a recovery drink (one that has carbs and protein ideally 40-50g of carbs and 15-20g of protein) after all long runs over 90minutes and all training session that you perceived as hard if longer than 50minutes. This recovery drink could be a commerial sports recovery drink from SIS, High 5, Lucozade, Powerbar etc or a milkshake drink such as for goodness shake, friji, yahoo, yop or even a pint of milk with some nesquick added.

    If you could try and make these changes over the next week and then perhaps you could load up  3-4 days of a food diary and I could pick over it?!

  • I managed a disciplined run for most of this mornings long run, this is a first. 16miles completed a 6:39 pace on average, the first mile was 7 dead and I slowly increased the pace thereafter, the last mile was 6:23. It felt great perfect temp 12C full moon then seeing the sunrise over Miami, flat wide Tarmac made pacing very easy. I felt like I could go on for another 10, good news. No ill effects in fact we are now going on a bike tour which sounds like fun.
  • Great training run - don't overdo the Burgers and fries for post recovery!
  • Steve, you are right about that I looked at last nights menu and there wasn't a thing that wouldn't kill me!

    Ruth, I will try your suggestions, as if I keep that sort of food available that's what I will pick up, i will keep a food diary when I get back as this week has the potential to be very very bad!
  • Another early morning run on the roads, this time there were about 15 others running round the same loop, I even received some encouragement along the lines of wow that quick. The session again went well, as pacing on the flat, even Tarmac is very easy. The miles were, 5:58, 6:05, 6:03, 5:46, 6:08, 6:06, 6:02. I found the step in pace both up and down hard, but once I got into the swing of it became easier. I am now looking forward to breakfast!
  • Hi Lee

    Will try and get some Twiglet flavoured milkshakes stocked in the bar for your post Thursday night training recovery.

  • Great running - the 5:46 was a bit quick but otherwise pacing ok. You need an Easier day tomorrow
  • Steve, that was the half marathon paced mile, so I thought it was 1 sec too slow which I blamed on crossing the intersections! I have been out for run two 4.5 in 30 mins so nice and relaxed.
  • Yes sorry you actually did it perfectly!
  • Easy again this morning 7.5 miles in 50 mins so just a little quicker than it should be but it felt steady. A little warmer this morning but that may because I started late at 5:45!
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