Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Craig

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  • I'm at the train station again... Should still be in the office writing reports, but since we moved there is only one person who can lock up and they don't need/want to stay... Hell, have to be in silly early then.

    SB: glad you like Farah. Run bear run. The pace was meant to be a 7:20.......

    Louisa: where do you work where you get that??? Wow, they got any need for a running Probation Officer???? I love curry in all it's spicy forms too! Seen a v healthy mushroom curry with vvv healthy tomato sauce... Have To post that one.

    mcs: again, quality quote... *nods head, whispering 'yea man'* question: how do you get carbs going on with that? Is it wheat or gluten issues?

    Sam: gonna be good, promise... Will be very disaplined with progression run tomorrow. Have Garmin set up to chastise me if I slack or over do it.

    Ruth: points noted. Issues with freezer packing up and had to eat the risotto... Will post everything from today. The race starts at 9:00, so jam sandwiches might be good. I'll leave the newly found malt to the night before....trains pulling in... Will continue to waffle after tea and reply further.
  • Hi all

    LMD - it seems to be totally individual. We always have huge pizzas the night before a race - usually fairly plain ones though - ham & pineapple / margaritas but that's just what works for us.  Always fish & chips the night after!  image

    BoD - ah!  Now I see...  image

  • Hi LMD, good to have you with us and thanks. I recon it might be best to stick with what works and don't change without knowing what it does. Could be me being cautious though. I also like Sleepy's idea of pizza, but pineapple is wrong on pizza!!! Don't do that image

    Suzie: I've got a half on Sunday too. Been given permission to race it and push (without going silly). Got another one a few weeks before Paris and aiming to use that to practice MP under race conditions (self-disapline and all that).

    Ruth: packed high juice, dates, dried fruit and wheatabix for work food. Plus rice and muffins wih honey.... Gonna be sweat. What do you and Sam think about the Austrlian theory about loading: upping carb % but more or less normal and the 24 hours before doing high intensity workout for 4 minutes? Just saw it in RW guide to nutrition. Might be good for those of us who can't cook themselves individual meals or are poor at planning....
  • Morning!

    Gonna have to go buy a malt loaf now - can't remember whether I like them or not - I used to always have one in my ruck sac  but I can't remember the last time I ate some ...

    Random thought to share -  my hot water bottle stops me getting crampy calves in the night! Not woken up with cramp since Christmas - bonus! Maybe something to do with vasodilation / warmth = muscle relaxant. Either way - happy days! 

    BoD - HOW can you say that! Pudding and dinner rolled into one - my favourite meal - right up there with chicken korma for the same reason - yummy yum yum. (What page is that on in the nutrition book?Sounds interesting - will go and have a look... ps RW - a decent index in that book would be ever so helpful - anyone know a good indexer - oh yeah me LOL)

    p.s Hi Suzie image

  • Mmmm, pizza, that's a great idea, thanks guys. With Sleepy on the pineapple, lovin a Hawaiian, will try on Saturday night.

    Good luck with the Half on Saturday BoD, where is it?
  • Susiebuzz wrote (see)
    Hi everyone and Boduke, I'm also a first timer doing London this year and have a half marathon race on Sunday in Blackpool...if anyone has any top tips of how to approach this I'd be grateful. I'm tempted to go for a PB, I'm not fast so this would be 10 min miles but this is obviously a lot faster than my marathon pace which I'm guessing will end up being nearer 11 min miles. Do I go for it or do I practice marathon pace over a longer distance. Did 6.5 miles yesterday in 63 mins and felt ok but not completely sure I can sustain that over the full distance and don't want to get injured.... Any tips Good luck Boduke and all the other first timers, it's a daunting challenge but so exciting! Susie


    Hi Susie, I'd say that your half marathon is far out enough from the marathon to race it rather than use as pace practice. But don't kill yourself! Work hard but,  just see how it goes. It'll give you a good measure of your marathon potential and help you determine what goal pace to go for in the big one!

    BoD, Agree, pineapple shouldn't be allowed on pizzas!

    Ruth - bananas with black spots on - uggh. I have to liquidise them when they go an hour past being ready to eat!image 

  • Liquidise bananas - i'm loving my homemade smoothies after training - milk, banana, cherry yoghurt, fruitjiuce, honey.
  • Craig:  Ha ha haaaa...I work for a Management consultancy so we tend to be sat at a desk hunched over our laptops all day or travelling with the laptop slung over our shoulders (which weigh a ton - you'd think in this day and age they'd be lighter by now).  So we find we often have niggles and that coupled with some high pressure times through the year I think the company thought we could do with the massge help if we wanted to opt for it.  Does feel odd though having a massage in a meeting room image.

    LMD: I swear by the Jamie Oliver Working Girl's (tuna) Pasta for meal night before a long run/race.  I have a sensitive tummy when it comes to early long runs and have learnt to avoid foods in the 24 hours before that contain red meat or anything too fatty.  Tuna pasta with Olives, tomatoes, capers, a tiny bit of chilli (though not too much for running on image) lemon juice and Basil is delish, light but nice amount of carbs.  Then morning of long run I have plain porridge around 4 hours prior to run (so there's plenty of time for tummy to do it's work and have pitstop before the run).

    Good luck with VLM - it'll be my first too!

  • Bo - my April RW arrived today - some great pics of you all and a much bigger and better article - what a great experience for you all, fantastic.
  • Yip got mine too - absolutely love the pic of you all having a giggle with Sam! You getting excited about the weekend yet? Not long now ... image
  • Bo - go to page 26 of April RW mag for a great article about negative split pacing (slower first half, quicker in second) in a marathon - great example of two runners doing it in opposite ways with the negative split being better - it's also the most enjoyable (in my view) way to pace any race as you feel great in second half and pass loads of folk as well.
  • OOOhhh mag arrived trouble is got too much work to do!!

    Happiness is not a state to arrive at, but a manner of travelling........run with a smile to quote Haille G....

  • Louise -thanks for the tuna pasta tip, I'll try that one too. Useful to hear from someone else about red meat sensitivity, I think that's what my problem was on Sunday, won't make that mistake again but it did make for some amusing race photos when I didn't realise the camera was around and my real feelings were evident! Good luck with your first vlm, how's your training going so far?

    Looking forward to the April RW, does it say Monster Month on the front? I've been dreading those words!!
  • Thanks so much Sam and Boduke for that advice!
    I've been really indecisive about it all so it really helped!
    Oscarr: interesting re negative splits! Boduke, are you planning a negative split for your half this weekend. I've only done two halfs before and both examples of how not to do it!!! If I was plannign 10 min miles average how does that work? How much slower do you do the first half, the worry I have would be not being able to speed up second half!
    Off home now, hope my runners world has arrived, I am becoming slightly obsessed with all this running!
    Hello to everyone else, tuna recipe sounds fab!
    Susie
  • Susie. You'd only be looking to run a tad slower in first half - maybe 5-15 secs per mile slower - not, like, 2 mins per mile. It's a common fear that if you hold back in the first half you won't be able to speed up but the truth is that if you go too fast in the first half you're more likely to suffer in the second half and slow down.
    Btw, if 10 min mile is your goal pace you could still aim for that, but defo not quicker, and then see whether you can speed up a little in the second half...

    I've got a big barefoot running piece in the current issueimage But now - mid marathon training - not a good time for anyone to start experimenting! Stick to what you know. For now image

  • Susie - just a few seconds a mile slower in the early part can make a big difference later on
  • Interesting conundrum on barefoot vs transition Sam - I'm really glad we started with the inov-8s system - going straight to 'flat' even for a few minutes would have been epic for us but now OH happily runs without his orthotics so something/somewhere must have been strengthened. And I'm definitely much lighter on my feet than I used to be.  Roll on 155s for us next.

    Is today a rest day BoD? Doing any stretching or strengthy stuff? Today marks the first day of rebuilding yoga into my life - new dvd has 8 different sessions on it ranging from 15 - 45 minutes.  Thinking of doing at least twice a week so shouldn't get bored too quickly if do different sessions each week. Easy and short today!

    Susie - know what you mean about indecisiveness - I've only just gotten a pace-o-meter thingy wotsit so my next half (in March) is gonna be a whole new experience.  I've previously had to wait til I get to the mile markers to check my pace and had no comprehension of how people could manage themselves better.  Now it all seems so simple - just have to get over the fascination of knowledge or I'll be falling over because I'm looking at my watch all the time!  Maybe one day I will develop an internal speedometer but right now I seem to be able to speed up/slow down quite a bit for quite a while without really noticing much.

    Oooh oscarr - liking the sound of your smoothie - love cherry yoghurt!

  • Sleepy bear, know exactly what you mean!
    I always always always go off too fast but it doesn't feel fast (all relative, I'm not a speedster!) my splits for the great north run were hilarious - for all the wrong reasons.
    I've found using heart rate quite useful, even thought about running my race to heart rate as an experiment!

    BoD, are you resting or running today? The weather here in Norhumberland is gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous and tempting to go out for a nice long run but guess not that wise with the half coming up! I miss the fun of being spontaneous with all this sticking to a plan business!!!

    Sam, I thought you're on reflection article was great, such a huge issue for many women (and men too).

    Susie
  • interesting article Sam I tried flatter shoes last spring a mistake I believe though no scientific research done on it yet!! Back issues resulted three months off running and then a torn calf but hey who knows. I am back on my Saucony Progrid and Asics Kayanos as of this year. Sounds like a great race In NYC a real experience to meet everyone too.
  • Afternoon Peps. Sorry not been around, it been a bit manic. Got pulled away from my desk last night kicking and screaming as the office was closed around me... Then out to give a leacure to a bunch of 1st year criminology undergradulates, who were actiually there for a 9am session!!! Not like in my day..image

    Back to the pineapple on pizza, my colleges thought something had gone badly wrong when I had a very quick peek yesterday some thing like: nnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IIIIIIIIttttttttttt'ssssssssss SSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOO WWWWRRRRRRROOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGGGGG

    But have to agree that blackspotted bananas are the way forward. OH and Thomas like them very firm... Not for me then.

    Had a quick look at RW last night, not read much yet, but have to like the 'He's not a kid in a toyshop, he's a kid in a toyshop who didn'y know there was a toyshop' quote... Is that really me???How bizzare this expreiance is (in a good way). 

    Just been out for 4 miles slow, gonna jump in the shower and we've got to go shopping for a new fridge/freezer... *bangs head on wall and pull moths out of wallet*

    The paces are thus:

    Slow 10.30-11
    Easy 9.45-10.30
    Steady 9-9.45
    Brisk 8.30-9
    Fast For mile reps or longer 7.40-8?For 800m 3.40-3.50 per rep (or 7.20 to 7.40 pace per mile)

    Yesterday was a progression run 1 jog, 2 steady, 2 brisk, 1 fast and 1 jog with the followin splits:

    1    10:39.7    1.00    10:40
    2    19:21.8    2.00    9:41
    3    17:13.4    2.00    8:37
    4    7:49.0    1.00    7:49
    5    9:54.6    1.00    9:55

    Today was 4 miles slow:

    1    10:55.2    1.00    10:55
    2    10:46.0    1.00    10:46
    3    10:42.7    1.00    10:43
    4    10:47.1    1.00    10:47
    5    :10.0    0.02    8:54

    Right need to show and then spend money we haven't got.... Had new oven delivered yesterday after it died.... and got glasses on order.... Bum imageimageimageimageimage

    Talk this evening folks  image That'll make me feel better.

    Hi Suzie BTW!

  • Sam - if Craig's goal MP pace is around 9:30, those mile and 800 rep paces look a bit quick to me - are they correct ?
  • oscarr - He's going under 4 me thinks!

    smilies/big_smile_smiley.gif

    Yasso rules!

    Hope Mrs BoD likes her new shiny things!Everything always happens at once - commiserations!

    Susie - watch out for the race day 'adrenaline-buzz'.  I've stopped wearing my chest strap in races as my pulse is higher than normal and I'd be tempted to slow down despite having proved to myself many times that I'm actually ok and can just keep going!

    mcs - yip I had that problem too when I abandoned high heels for ballerina pumps! Fashion is very bad for you but it's the same principle -  had to get some heel lifts from a podiatrist friend to give my calves a rest as I had over-stretched them.

    So BoD - any favourites emerging in your sessions? Do you prefer the slowies or the speedies?

    More pineapple for me then YUM image

  • Oooh, sleepy bear, I never thought of that!!
    Will definitely bear that in mind, hope the adrenaline lasts the full race, will need it!
    Wow, never done a progression run! What's the thinking behind that? How often are you doing them?
    Those half mile fast sections are very whizzy Craig! How you feeling when you're doing them?
    My kids are really hyper tonight!! Quite looking forward to leaving them with my mum while I do this half, maybe should book some more in!! image
    Susie
  • Hi guys, sorry didn't get back on last night... Bought new fridge/freezer after the old one also died... Explored the potential of getting it fixed, but didn't make financial sense.  This therefore resulting in the dreaded 'money conversation'... Yep...

    The upshot is that Mrs BoD isn't coming to Paris with me afterall by mutual agreement.  All about balance and that, but feeling a bit flat this morning about the situation. I know it's gonna be amazing anyway (couple of me mates are thinking about coming to watch regardless) feels tempered now... image On the upside, does mean that I can focus on the and not have to think about anything else (clutching at things here, help me out please needing a boost...) 

    About to leave to camp at Rodin tonight, so will catch up on me RW and minimal/barefoot stuff in the tent.  

    Sorry about not posting the carb stuff, been so manic... 

    SB: I'm torn between long and slow and the quicker stuff.  Short and slow I'm finding frustrating and psychologically difficult to maintain.  I'm always aware of other stuff that going on and have to stop telling myself to speed up and get home (can't do that on the long ones though or my legs will falloff).  Pineapple is a great fruit, comes second to bananas in my view (and a great skincare thing, rub it on your skin, leave for 20 minuties and wash off... seriously there are enzines in them that dislove protein to base almino acids which 'eats' dead skin). But on pizzas.... Mate.... Really.... I'm hoping there is a pizza place near the camp site tonight.

    Suzie: Someone will be able to correct me if I'm wrong here (most likely) but I think progression runs are meant to ensure that you start slow and are able to build up pace as you go.  I think they are meant to train your body into not getting used to going too quick and them slowing.  Or something. I think this is the first one that has been totaly structured like that, but had sessions before where the intention was to increase pace for x miles before the end.  Overall, I think they are quite challenging to be honest, I was getting into one pace and them changing again once just got it right.  BUT I think it was worth it because I was having to get used to focusing on the activity and not drift off.  With the half mile things, they REALLY are quite hard, but also interesting because my brisk pace (8:30ish) last October felt like the half miles do now, so clear progress... Good luck for tomorrow!! Where is it and let us know how you do...

    Right guys, off to eat and drink more carb based stuff and drive down to Essex. I'll try to keep up to date (gonna be on my own anyway) and let you all know how tomorrow goes (bring on the sub 2:00 half!!!)

    Just a quick one, do I wear the 26.2 top tomorrow or go for standard? What you all think??? 

  • Hey BoD

    Don't know if you'll get this in time (on your phone maybe) but really hope you have a great run this weekend.  Am sorry about wifey not going to Paris - I sometimes enjoy not going to Ben's races - he can then focus on the race without wondering if I'm bored or whether I've found someone to chatter to and I get to hear about it all when he gets home and is still hyper so there is maybe a bright side to it. Still sorry all the same.

    Pineapple - yip - not giving an inch on it - love, love, love.

    Well today's intriguing result for me - did the same run this morning as I did on Wednesday - today my average HR was 3 beats lower; I was 3 minutes faster over the route and my average speed was 0.6 kph faster.  Am guessing that my legs were a bit tired after my intervals on Wednesday then LOL!

    Top - is your choice - if you can, make the decision after your warm up as you'll get a better idea of whether you are going to be too warm by then.

    GO CRAIG, GO CRAIG - ALLEZ ALLEZ ALLEZ image

  • oh meant to say - yip - your toyshop quote - yip that's you and it's a really good thing.  You remind me a lot of the friend I have been running with for the last 5 months - her enthusiasm is just fantastic.  She's only just starting out really but it's not gonna be long I reckon til I'm chasing her around and it's all down to her attitude.  She never moans, always gives things a go and finds a funny/constructive side to those things that don't go quite as planned.  It's very refreshing and not all that common!  So give yourself a pat on the back ma boy! image
  • Bo - toyshop quote - there have been just a few times in my adult life (end remember i am much older than you!!) when i recall being so excited about something that i could burst and the description of being a kiddie in a toyshop is very apt for those occasions - things like my first really good run in one of my first half marathons, first time i played well at golf, young love etc - it's the sort of excitement you wish you could bottle and keep for ever cos the more experienced you get with these things the less the excitement which is replaced by a calmer surity - we all wish that the excitement phase (the "honeymoon" phase) could continue forever but unfortunately it doesn't - SO, enjoy, enjoy, enjoy this while it lasts !!
  • Hi everyone

    Darn, looks like I might have missed Craig before he heads off to camp in the wilds of Essex - will text him good luck and advice!

    Susie - thanks for your nice comments about my column this monthimage

    Sleepy - having  a GPS will help you locate your internal pace-ometer! Use it as feedback not just info. Eg. run at what YOU think is MP, or HMP or hwatever, and then check the pace to see if you're right and adjust if necessary. That way, you really start to learn what different paces feel like.

    oscarr wrote (see)
    Sam - if Craig's goal MP pace is around 9:30, those mile and 800 rep paces look a bit quick to me - are they correct ?

    Oscarr - they are correct for Craig, based on his 5 mile race result and also the fact that he thrives on a bit of variety and challenge within runs. There aren't any sessions where he does a massive amount of reps - so it's quite low volume in that sense. And also, his 'alleged' marathon pace is 10 min mile, to break sub 430 but as SB says, I think he can (and will) run significatnly faster than this. Just don't want to push a first timer who is already enthusiastic/motivated too hard and end up injured/overtrained.

    Cheers all! I am posting everyone's next week' s programmes later today.

  • Is this working???
  • 'Cor blimey that was converluted.... In a tent on a campsite 2 hours closer than I would have been. Not much in the way of wi-fi/g3 and I'm finding that very strange. How did we cope before all this tech??? Lovely out here though, really quite and just the sound of the birds (might me a woodpecker). Could be worse and in a budget hotel... image Thanks for the stuff above really, really appriciate it image. Feeling quite nervous about the race, my performance and all that. Be OK tomorrow though. Probably try to kip when it gets dark and get up early to get there and parked and all that.
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