Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Craig

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  • Bo - just getting used to drinking more water at mo
  • Hi everyone

    Had a fun morning, I sent out the weekly email to my running group and mentioned 'I will be cycling due to my ongoing hip issue, so if anyone else whose injured wants to come down and bring a bike...' Anyway, six people - including two I haven't seen in AGES came down with bikes! We did a circuit-style warm up with some drills and strength work before the runners headed off and we cyclist did a hard effort out and back. Someone christened us 'Rye Rehab!'

    Hope you are all staying injury free and running well. Oscarr, glad you enjoyed the massage and that some useful 'warning signs' were identified. You make it sound so simple.... problem - solution!

    I'm not finding it quite that easy to resolve my injury problems despite the shortfalls and alleged solutions being identifiedimage At least the weather is staying dry for long bike ride tomorrow thoughimage

  • Hi Craig
    Hope you had a good rest day today and are geared up for tomorrow's long run... with the MP finale!

    Will look forward to hearing how that goes. In the meantime, here is what next week is looking like. This is week 12 - which means we really are in the peak weeks now, so hang on in there! Keep on top of the hydration, nutrition and recovery. You are doing so well - can't wait to see how Paris goesimage

    Week Twelve w/c 12/3/12 (39M)
    Mon Rest
    Tue 7M of 1M jog then 4 x accel strides, 4 x 1M fast with 3 min jog recoveries, then 1M jog
    Wed Rest
    Thu 1M jog, then 3M brisk, then 1M jog
    Fri 7M slow
    Sat Rest
    Sun 20M
  • Hi Folks,

    New video of the others being articulate and charming: ASICS 26.2 training day.

    Really looking forward to tomorrow, go some new gels and chews to try out and looking forward to seeing how my legs cope with MP after 11 miles.  Water bladder is in the fridge, kit ready nerves a going.., Woohoo.

    oscarr: do you find the increase in fluid intake can cause other (more personal) issues? I'm having to constantly planning loo stops, not that anyone needed to know that. 

    Sam: Glad your seeing the positives, you're getting out with people, keeping your fitness up and continuing to motivate and coach your group, so well done! Think the idea was very good, keeps people engaged with running for when their injury calms down and less likely to drop out, which would be a real shame.

    Oh, Sam wany objections to me swapping Thursday and Friday sessions around? Got a trip to London on Thurday and don't have to get out till 9:00, so gives me more time. 

    Just realised how close Paris is, had to discuss getting Euros, train ticket to London and loads of Expo stuff with OH on our next pay packets (including the boring stuff like car tax and a train pass...

    Really looking forward to tomorrow and next week. I like mile repeats too... OK, the only running session I don't like are treadmills (not bad going).  

    Good running tomorrow and next week folks.

  • Spoke too soon about the website... image
  • Sam - the first 2 parts are simple (problem- solution) - it's the last part that will take the time to fix it which is the "rectify by exercise" - still, good to know what and how to work on

    Bo - don't find it a problem during the day but a bit annoying in the middle of the night !!

  • oscarr wrote (see)
    Bo - if you haven't done so already, i would strongly recommend that you do a trial with the 2 day carb loading diet before one of your long runs or races so you can test your stomach with it well before Paris - that way you go to Paris with a lot more confidence that all the details are covered and you are leaving nothing to chance - as the saying goes "nothing new on race day"


    Agree 100%, practice before and now how you need to tweak.

    I will get link to possible eating place for evening meals in Paris next week so no surprises!

  • Craig - hope it goes well today. I use SIS GoGels, have tired others but cna't get on with them!

    I did a 20 miler yesterday morning.Took 4 hours and  I had to walk a bit in places, but pleased to have made the distance!

  • BoDuke wrote (see)

    Hi Folks,

    New video of the others being articulate and charming: ASICS 26.2 training day.

    Really looking forward to tomorrow, go some new gels and chews to try out and looking forward to seeing how my legs cope with MP after 11 miles.  Water bladder is in the fridge, kit ready nerves a going.., Woohoo.

    oscarr: do you find the increase in fluid intake can cause other (more personal) issues? I'm having to constantly planning loo stops, not that anyone needed to know that. 


    Mmmm - not to chuffed about the vid Craig - I thought I'd shifted my muffin top ... mmmm.

    Good luck with the run today - whats your milage supposed to be? I was a wreck yesterday - nut used no gels and this has illustrated to me just how much I need to use them, I like Gu gels as they come in 'Exporesso Love' and 'Chocolate outrage' flavours. Yum - rather thinck so you must have a drink afterwards but really noce.

    On the fluid issue - clearly got this totally wrong yesterday (plus us girlies have exercises that we must do... TMI). I had to make several pit stops but can be less discrete than you guys ... I also had the added indignity of getting prodded by a branch in the rear when I stopped to get aquainted with nature- ouch!

    During my first marathon I stopped once to go for a wee behaind a white van in deptford and the second marathon didn't need a wee at all! Think on the day we will be so nervous that we will bo going loads of times until the start!

  • oscarr/ruth: Right then, Saturday will be spent eating a massive amount of pasta and getting into the swing of things again.  Be handy because I'm also going to be in town manning a political stand that day, so shops gonna be very close if anything is needed.

    MWW: I like them too, but personally find the high5 ones easier to get down on the run. Not quite as heavy but still tasty. Funny how I prefer the heavier ones towards the end of a run though... Um, psychosomatic I think.  Good work on the 20 miler, I've not done one yet and thinking it's going to be a challenge to get that far.  How are you feeling today?

    Emma: you've made my face hurt from smiling at that story. image What can I say??? Sure the branch had fun... image I've tried using those Gu gels (prefer Gu chocolate puddings...) and struggle to get the top off them, then I get sticky hands and have to stop for a wash (with soap: bit of OCD kicking in). I tried keeping mine in my hand for a mile of so before using them today and they seem to loosen up a bit with the heat (that was DT2's tip, ta fella) and easier to swallow. Yep, how nervous are we going to be??? No pressure or anything. That's a good thing though... Adrenaline is a great painkiller.... BTW, just to be Crystal clear on this: You do not, in any way, shape or form have a muffin top!!!! OK? Now repeat this 100 times everyday until you believe it: 'I am an attractive, intelligent, wonderful woman. Men want to be with me, women want to be me'. image Really looking forward to Paris now, gonna be great!

    Here be today's splits. Hard work today, feeling the effort now, but all good and really enjoyed it. 

    1    10:24.4    1.00    10:25
    2    10:20.2    1.00    10:20
    3    10:26.7    1.00    10:27
    4    10:19.0    1.00    10:19
    5    10:23.1    1.00    10:23
    6    10:19.2    1.00    10:19
    7    10:16.6    1.00    10:17
    8    10:11.7    1.00    10:12
    9    10:01.9    1.00    10:02
    10    10:16.5    1.00    10:17
    11    9:56.0    1.00    9:56
    12    9:33.0    1.00    9:33
    13    9:32.9    1.00    9:33
    14    9:39.3    1.00    9:39
    15    9:34.8    1.00    9:35
    16    9:37.2    1.00    9:37
    17    9:48.1    1.00    9:48

    Found it hard to get the pace right in the last 6 (first 11 @ 10:30-9:45, last 6 @ 9:45). When slowed down , felt considerably harder than when slightly quicker. Think it was to do with getting into a rhythm for 11 miles then changing. 

  • We're of to look at lambing... Then home for roast something...
  • Cor well done Craig!  Looks great pacing to me even if slightly over the target paces.  I think you're going to storm it on the day!

    I attempted my 16 miler today with 8M slow and then 8M at HM pace...was going well actually and really felt good generally...until about 14.5 miles in when started to get a funny feeling in my tummy then had to finish at 15M to go to the loo and lordy was I glad I miscalculated distance and was nr home at that point rather than with another mile to go!  Never had runners trots like that and now trying to figure out what might have caused it.  Any ideas nutrition bofs?  Last night I had spag bol for dinner made with turkey mince rather than beef to keep it light and low fat, with just water for drinking, and had a side salad made with raw red cabbage and red onion with splash of lemon juice.  Then was up and had breakfast at 8 this morning and had porridge with just one spoon of honey and water.  Then out for my run at 11:00.  Any ideas?

    What I am pleased about is the fact that until that happened my pacing had me on to do it in just under 3 hrs, and the target was to do it in 3h02...so happy if a bit disappointed the tummy stopped the finish.

    Anyhoo - on to the next week of trainng and more experimenting to get this right!  It was fun in the sun though image

  • I just watched the vid - you're all looking like professionals now. Good going with all the long runs everyone (Louisa in more ways than one).

    Following my 8 mile run earlier in the week, I expected I was going to struggle a bit yesterday. The run lived up to expectations and then some. I struggled from 12 miles and was dragging my 4$$ along the ground from around 15 miles. I called it a (miserable) day at 17 miles, because it took me almost as long as I was expecting to take for 18 miles. Very disappointing after cruising to an easy 16 miles four weeks ago. I also had some pain to the right of my left knee - which I didn't really notice until after the run. Apart from that, it went brilliant image

    Hope I can regain some speed over the next couple of weeks ready to attempt my first twenty-miler (I've scheduled two). I'm cutting it a bit fine now.

    Maybe there's something in what Craig said about the running being harder at the slower speed?
  • Hi Bo - did my 20 mile LSR today - 20.57 miles in 3:20 @9:44 - target was even paced run for 3:20 duration at 9:45 to 10:00 pace so got to be pleased with the result - however, after a heavy week (first over 40 miles (43) and half race last sunday) i felt really tired after and quite a long recovery time. Next Sunday doing same 20 mile race as Emma (Surrey Spitfire) and will run it as a progressive paced training run.

    Great 17 miler for you and those paces are very good - how did you feel at the end and after?

  • Yep, great pacing BoD... I think the difficulty in swithcing gears might be from the sudden change in pace. Better to try and pick up more gradually (so start to pace up over last mile or two of the 'slower' pace and then ease into the faster one rather than moving too suddenly from one to other. You know how they talk about athletes 'winding it up' as they speed up? Like that! (Have been watching the indoor champs today and yesterday - what great performances from some of team GB!)

    Great run for you, too, OScarr. You're such a pro!

    oscarr wrote (see)

    Sam - the first 2 parts are simple (problem- solution) - it's the last part that will take the time to fix it which is the "rectify by exercise" - still, good to know what and how to work on

    Bo - don't find it a problem during the day but a bit annoying in the middle of the night !!


    Still not sure I agree about the above though. The problem solution bit - it kind of implies that the body is a predictable machine - which is how physical therapists wish we were (!). It's like 'ah, your knees rolling in a bit so you need to stretch X and strengthen Y and then you'll be fine. Unfortunately in my experience it just doesn't always work that way. I've done rehab exes till the cows come home , as directed, to fix problems and they haven't always done the job. Here's hoping, though! Have done all my rehabs today, like a good girlimage And 24 miles on the bike, too.

  • Wow all - pretty impressive reading (including you Sam)

    *bows hands in "we're not worthy fashion"*

    image

  • Thanks Sam - good point about rehab exercises - you (well at least me!) do get a confidence boost when i visit a prof therapist and the diagnosis sounds logical and the same with the solution and i guess i do wish to believe that it will get fixed by doing the exs -  if we think they never work then we don't do them and we then keep thinking but what would have happened if we did so we believe that 'this time' it will work and do them?  I see you are still doing your exs - you have to don't you, just in case !!  Here's hoping we all get the fixes we need.

    Talking of confidence boosters, i need one next Sunday for my next 20 miler cos the way i feel (still pretty fatigued) after today's LSR leaves me a bit low - time and pacing ok but the impact needs a bit of thinking about.

  • 11.25 miler with seven hundred feet up in first two miles then up on to the Edge in sunshine lovely then down eight hundred to the Dale through some tunnels for a roast dinner tea yum!! 1.47 so just a touch whisk but pleased. Well done all on lsrs.
    Just watched rugby on iplayer didn't know the score what a match!
    Must sleep.
  • I received my Zipvit sample box this morning. It was worth a fiver for the gel belt alone. I'll try their gel in a medium length run to see how it sits, there would be less to take (51g carbs each) if I can stomach them. I had to resist "trying out" the other goodies and will save them for after my next long run image

    Does anybody use their products, and have they been useful?

    I've still got a little pain in the knee this morning. I've taken Ibuprofen and iced the area - even though there's no visible swelling. I'm considering postponing today's run and giving it an extra day to recover. My body is my temple - and it's in need of some serious renovation :/
  • Louisa: oh no!!! Not got any idea about what caused it but I do get how bad it can get, nightmare. Looks like a good run till that point... I have a tendancy to spend a considerable amount of time in the small room after LSRs...

    Ten: the others look professional, I look like a fool, going on... What you gonna do, rest or run? Might make sense to let it recover a bit and try to jig the rest of the week about? Maybe, if you can? All questions and no answers from Craig. The gel belt is great to be honest, the gels are awesome and the protien bar is good too, but needs washing down with loads of liquid. Think their products feel 'quality' if nothing else. The only issue I have with the gels is getting the top off, can be difficult.

    Oscarr: was getting difficult from around mile 14/15, legs started to go 'numb' rather than hurting (make sense to anyone?) volume is starting to have an effect i think, really had to use self talk, but then got easier in the last mile. Recovered quite quickly to be honest, bit stiff yesterday till walking around the farm but ok by 6:00. Then fell over and thought I'd broken my toe... Which I hadn't... TFFT! Good run BTW and good luck for next week.

    Sam: ta v much! Will try that during my sandwich later in the week. OH wouldn't let me watch the athletics... Something about watching things we could both enjoy... I know... What's not to enjoy? Good work on the bike distance.

    mcs: so jealous of where you get to run!!! I went over a railway bridge and through an old clay pit... Then housing estate... But did get to go round a lake! You ok with little kip?
  • Bo - your recovery sounds good - i think it's a good indicator of fitness levels if you recover quickly from your LSRs
  • oscarr wrote (see)
    All - i'll drop Alice at RW an email about the red page etc
    All - had a nice reply from Alice at RW who has forwarded my email to their technical team to look into the problems.
  • Hi Oscarr - maybe consider taking an extra week between 2 x 20 milers. If your schedule allows it, I would always recommend that. Eg. Emma has done 20, then down to 15, 16 then 20 again. Do you have the luxury of time to do that? Better to get the run done well feeling fully recovered.

    Ten, on a similar note - if your schedule allows you to rejig, I'd go for that extra day recovery for the knee. Maybe back to the cross training if you need to get a session done today.

    Craig - sorry omitted to answer your question about the schedule - yes it's fine to swap Thurs and Fri around - it's not too punishing a session to do two days out from the long run.

  • Thanks Sam. Makes life a little bit easier. Appriciate it.

    Procrastinating by looking at stuff at the Expo and if I'll have time to visit the louve...
  • Craig/Sam - as always the voice of reason, I'll take the extra recovery and rejig a bit. I think I'll do an upper body workout - if nothing else, it's an excuse to try the protein bar image

    The tops of the gels aren't quite as bad as the sports bottles handed out in the MK half last week. My fingers were numb from the cold and I seriously struggled to open the bottles. I was so pleased when I was handed one that had already been popped open.

    I've been catching up with the athletics - some great performances! Very inspirational - just wish I was <cough> ten years younger.



  • Thanks Sam, sound advice - i am much more in tune with doing all i can to get to the start line of the marathon feeling fit and healthy and know how long recovery can take from hard weeks.  Last 3 weeks have been (sunday/weekly miles) 20/37, half race/36, 20/43.  Run in now to marathon is currently 20/44, 20/46, half race/36, 21/46 then 4 week taper with sunday runs of 16-14-10-race.  Ideally i would still like to do Surrey Spitfire this coming sunday (20 mile progressive) but then could change the sunday after that for a 15 miler instead of 20; it all depends on how i feel this week and if i don't feel right then i will pull out of the Spitfire run and do a 20 the week after.
  • Sam - for someone going for a sub 4 hr how many 20 milers in training do you think is a minimum and ideal? 
  • Oscarr.......As few as possible imagehttps://us.v-cdn.net/6027274/uploads/forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif' /> Four I reckon though the old 100 mile total sticks in my mind but as you get older risk of injury and recovery time are more important to get to the start line. See what our leaderess says!!

    I actually really enjoyed the lsr yesterday due to the weather and views and I made it tough for the first half to keep me slow.  Do you guys run flat LSRs or hilly or a mixture? Does it matter really?

    You only live once-but if you work it right once is enough!!imagehttps://us.v-cdn.net/6027274/uploads/forum/smilies/hot_smiley.gif' />

    What a cracking day here summer has arrived.

  • Crikey Oscarr - you're going to fly.  I did 2, I seem to remember : 1 x 20 and 1 x 22 then  2 x 18 milers!

    You really are putting me to shame - am very impressed with your mileages - no wonder you're feeling it! It's really good that you're querying yourself but for what my halfpenneth is worth I think you'll know yourself when you're doing too much - you won't be able to convince yourself that you want to go out! Am sure Sam will keep you right!

    The light at the end of the tunnel is that I reckon it doesn't take much of a drop for your body to start absorbing the training and not feeling so trashed. I'm dropping by about 5% a week from last week and feeling more sprightly by the day!

    Mine are all hilly at the moment mcs - I've heard Lincolnshire is flat but then there is the rumoured "Cardiac Hill" to go visit.  Hmmmm - not sure it's name is appealing! LOL!  I'm not sure it matters as long as your HR is in the fat burning zone and besides - I wouldn't swap a scenic run EVER!

    Gorgeous day indeed!  Am gonna escape out into it very soon - just about finished informing everyone and his best mate of our new address! I'd rather be on a cross trainer any day Sam.  Hope you're feeling a bit less frustrated today - I'm willing you to heal, heal, heal imagehttps://us.v-cdn.net/6027274/uploads/forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif' />

  • Oscarr: I'm having to agree with SB, you are gonna fly. I've got no doubt about that at all.

    mcs: I bet the views are fab! Love your part of the world. One day I'll move up there I think... Not sure what OH would say though imagehttps://us.v-cdn.net/6027274/uploads/forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif' />

    Sam: like SB sending the heal vibes over your way. BTW been reading about beetroot juice on Rosie's thread. Any idea where I can buy it? Love beetroot.

    SB: Lincolnshire is indeed v flat. On the upside, the sky is big and impressive. Sounds a bit weird, but go for a morning run and watch the sun come up.... The colours can be amazing!

    Got pork belly with mash tonight for dinner, not too healthy, but tasty and that's what I need at the moment I think. Only one day being bad this week.
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