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5k/10k Training
coffeebreak
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While I'm training mainly for triathlon running I'd be interested to hear any runners opinion on the kind of training required for 5k racing. In particular to 'The long run' that most runners I've spoken to say is essential. The kind of times I do are most recently 17:24 for 5k and 37:45 for 10k. Generally this lands me in a pretty good position overall and I never run more than 10 miles in a week. Its all short intense intervals or a near race pace 8k.. I couldn't face 45/55 miles a week 
Do you think a long run would benefit me? In my opinion the long run is pretty well covered with an hours swim 3 or 4 times a week on top of cycling and spinning as I see it essentially for aerobic fitness. I'm not sure that running for 2 hours at a slower pace would really benefit me. Obviously for longer races like half or full marathons longer runs become more important.
Any advice on why to go for longer runs would be good. Ta!
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I’ve trained ‘triathlon’ style for a couple of years (1/2 IM earlier this year and a couple of sprints) and over the short distance then you will probably be OK. That said what I noticed was that running leg strength seemed to be the limiting factor on 10ks (runs not tris), not aerobic capacity, probably because of all the bike and swim work - maybe a long run would have helped balance this out. Where I really noticed a trail off in performance was over long distance (I did a couple of marathons for ‘fun’, although well undertrained in relation to running), but if you’re not interested in doing half or full marathons then no problem. The only caveat I would put on your training is that all intervals and tempo work may mean you are not getting the most out of each session because you could still be tired from the last – just something to watch out for, but I know what a juggling act triathlon can be.
(In short - if you are sticking to 5k/10k/ tri then a long run is optional as the benefit may be small, while if you plan to do longer run events then you should up the mileage and put in a long run - probably at the expense of swim/bike).
I've definitely noticed that the interval training builds up and leaves me fatigued for a couple of days. I think I'll go with a slow 10 mile run every 2-3 weeks and stick with speed intervals and 5k parkrun races around that. I think my swimming and biking probably need more work that my running so I can't afford to cut too much into them.
Thanks!
I read an interesting article on the benefits of speed training vs higher mileage that helped me to make sense of it.. i was benefiting from speed training while doing very little mileage.. max 2 runs per week but my 5k time dropped by about 40s to 16:40 and now i feel i can't beat it. Basically I've hit a limit of how much speed i get squeeze out of myself.
What the article talked about was comparing running to shopping.. if you can afford one apple then you can get more from your money if you buy 2 for 1 on apples.. this is like speed training.. however the best way to afford two apples is to earn more money.. this is the higher milage approach.
Its a silly analogy but it made sense to me and i'm going to give higher mileage a go for a while. Just thought i'd share this as i liked the article!
http://triathlete-europe.competitor.com/2012/08/30/are-you-running-enough/
I've been wondering this too. Haven't raced a road 10k for years. 5km is 20:23.
I'm looking at plans like McMillan and FIRST for the end of this season, and for the next, which typically have 3 quality workouts (intervals/tempo/long). FIRST also throws in some swimming and cycling for recovery. This is fine for a running focus, but there is no way I can squeeze in that plus an interval and tempo on the bike. No recovery time.
The bulk of my training over the last year has been distance focussed (Iron distance), with no 'real' speedwork (only what Fink recommended). This took over a minute from my 5km (Nov11-Aug12).
To throw this back to your question, FIRST's 12 week 5km plan has the longest long at 8miles. Long tempo pace (7:20/mile for me, 6:25 for you).
Like your apple analogy, I think LSRs increase endurance. You can empty the endurance bag slowly over a long distance or rapidly over a short distance. The speedwork help with how to open the bacg quickly and keep it open.
Hi B_Kins,
You are clearly a runner with excellent natural talent in superb 5K shape. But your 10K time is well out of line with your 5K times.....even when your 5K was 17:24.
I don't race 5Ks, but my faster 5K training runs are not in 17:24 league. However my best 10K is 37:10, and I'm expecting/hoping to be somewhere in the 36:40 range in October.
The weekly longer run would almost certainly help with your distance stamina and ability to maintain pace in a 10K race.
Incidentally the McMillan Calculator predicts that you should be able to do the following 10K times based on your 5Ks:
5K at 17:24 works out at a 10K at 36:08
5K at 16:40 works out at a 10K at 34:37 !!!
The longer runs at easier pace are clearly what you need.
Interesting. I like a weekly long run (10-15 miles) and often run 7 or 8 miles on steadies, but my 5K/10K ratio isn't great - 16.36 to 35.40. Differences in race courses apart, where could the problem with my 10K be?
Any advice very welcome.
ok that 10k time is an old PB.. it was the first 10k i did. My 10k PB is 34:24 so more in line with my 5k if not a little better
You could have mentioned that Bkins! Talk about leaving half the story out!
I do love triathletes though...if you beat them in a race it's because they've done a 100mile cycle the day before, and if you ask how much running they've done it's always "about 10-20miles a week". And they leave out the 10-12hours of other disciplines
Pet Head, if you're doing a long run up to 15, presumably you're doing a nice 50-60miles a week? You might simply have a shorter race distance bias...but you should still be sub 35 as a minimum.
I always presumed i was shorter distance biased...but my 10mile and half times come out better pro rata than the 5k.
Having said that, those races were on super fast courses, and I've never once done a super fast 5k course...
Given the context of this thread, yes i should probably have mentioned that! I do think all the cycling and swimming helps a lot with running but i could be a much better runner if i gave it proper focus. I've done a couple of longer races recently and just signed up for my first half marathon in 3 weeks so i'm on the right track i think..
Maybe i'll start running to parkrun instead of driving.. its exactly 5k away so would make for a good long run.. long by my standards anyway!
BK, if you ditched the other 2 sports, I reckon you'd be an amazing runner.
I suppose the only thing would be whether your body had got used to the high training load through lesser impact cycling and swimming, and then broke down because of the change. But you'd do it progressively and no problem I expect.
ooft 5k 16.35 10k 34.45. 10k is weak
sawney, did you miss the 34:24 10k update?
still slightly weak i suppose...maybe by 10sec?
ha Stevie I was saying my 10k was weak, going to try and remedy it tomorrow, 34.24 would be nice
It's unlike you to only talk about your own running Sawney
Oh Sorry SG I was only making a comparison with Pethead as our times are similar for 5k/10k,
I will send you a message to confirm if my post is agreeable the next time
Just kidding big fella
Love ya
your forgiven
Let me know if you're down in these parts any time in the future, and we'll have that run we never got around to!
I like to race frequently and also cycle a bit, so I'm not clocking up 50/60 every week. I'll usually have a couple of easier days before a race and won't do a super-long run on the weekend of a race. On a non-race week though, 50 miles sounds about right.
I used to think I was more LD biased as a teenager, but that's more than evened out now. Still hope there's more in the tank for a 10K on a fast course...I do have a very good 5K course near me.
you must do I'm sure.
And you're lucky with the good 5k.
In fairness, I don't really have much knowledge of the park run scene. I've heard vague comments that some of the London park runs are very fast. It's just that the 2 nearest me in South Bucks are off road for starters!
I hear Bushy Park is fast. Though 901 people there this week
you'd need to be near the front. First 80 were sub 20min.
Near me: Frimley Lodge has some ripples up to the canal, but is accurate. Reading is faster, but I think slightly longer than 5km (sour grapes!). I think most Parkruns are off-road. Worth doing as part of a Tempo/SS run?
We have a pretty fast one but you can get hit with a pretty strong headwind which slows times by about 30-60s. There's a few guys who turn up regularly running 16-17 minutes so plenty of motivation to pick up the pace a little! I don't think a parkrun gives your true PB though. A proper 5k race always gets that extra lift
Down my way we have a summer series of 5/6 races that are either undulating road, or grassy 2 lapper.
I thought i'd found a fast 5k in Chesham, but it turned out to be a most bizarre 4 lapper, with a 100metre hill on each lap!
Therefore,a road/path park run seems the best bet. Bushy or somewhere for sure. Off other distances I should really have a sub 17 in the locker, but we all know those calculators tend to overstate the calculation from longer to short! I've never once had a 5k/10k that matched my 10miler/half