RW Forum Six - 3.30

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  • Hello everyone. Quick check in between running and drinking to say good luck to Gazelle and don't be shit! Look forward to the race report tomorrow. I'm sure you will smash it, go get them speedster!image
  • Gazelle - Good luck tomorrow, Don't be shit!

  • Thanks for the good wishes everyone image
  • Gazelle - have a cracker tomorrow.image

  • Gazelle, you go for it, girl!!!  Can't wait to hear how it went.

    My session was a bit random this morning, but no time to post now so I will update later.

    Sending loads of positive vibes to Gazelle and anyone else racing today off the back of your quotes, FRTC.  Loved them!!  Can't quite visualise the TRX core exercise you described, though.  Do you have your hands in the TRX or your feet?  When you said wheel I thought you meant something similar to that one on the floor where you kneel and you hold a wheel with handles and then extend your arms away from your body and then bring it back in.  If that's what it is, ouch!  That's gotta hurt!! 

  • Ok, back now.  I didn't want to disrupt Gazelle's positivity in case she checked the forum before setting off to her race image

    So today's run was a bit of a set-back.  Out the door before 6am, feeling good.  Today was long run day, although only 7 miles for me at my stage.  Things felt like a real struggle pretty much from the start.  Massive humidity again, Garmin fogged up as soon as I got out the door.  I was batting through ok until I got to 4 miles and then it started to feel really hard.  I always know things are bad when I can't bear my iPod on as it starts to irritate me.  I had to take it off around this point.  

    I heard the Garmin beep for 5 miles and saw how slowly I was going and I just knew I couldn't take another 20 mins of running.  So I walked the half mile back home, intending to go in and recover.  By the time I got back to our block, I felt like I could run again, but then remembered it would be at least 20 mins out in the heat and that reality check made me listen to how the past 5 miles had made me feel (like shit) so I parked that idea.  

    Then I had a brainwave.  Our appartment block has a gym on the 4th floor with very nice treadmills - problem solved!  So off I went and did 3.2km at 10kph to secure my 7 mile target.  The irritating thing was I felt great on the treadmill, heartrate 142, could have kept going forever..............

    Ultimately, I may well improve over my next few runs, but I am really not enjoying it one bit.  I think next summer I will stick to the treadmill and focus on spring racing which means I can start outside in Oct.  Whilst I will, of course, stick with it for now because I refuse to give up on my plans and will do whatever it takes, it has given me a very interesting insight into what it must feel like as a complete beginner or someone who just hates running.

    On to more positive things, FRTC, get you and your sub-6m/m!!!  Wow, you must be really chuffed with that.  Great results after some really good, consistent training.  Maybe I could be like you one day.....image  I also read that positivity article, love it.  I often find myself using imagery like that to get me through hard sessions, thinking about how this is one step on the way to achieving my target (it didn't work for me today, I know when I'm broken!!)  I think I'm going to surf that website to see if it has stuff on 6 pack.  I'm working hard on my exercises and my diet (still no alcohol image, pizza, rubbish food etc), but I hate drastic weight loss as it's really bad for you and I refuse to go on one of those mega high protein regimes which I think is so artifical so I think this may take some time......

  • I will read the forum later and catch up on what's been happening over the last 24hrs.

    Today I was Shit, as in really badimage I knew from mile 2 that today was not my day. I crossed the line in 1:40:49 according to my watch which I'm surprised at as I walked quite a few times. A full report to follow.
  • Gazelle - we all have "not so good days" there will be a reason for it and it won`t be that "you are sh*t" put that race to bed and then carry on, these setbacks are what make us stronger people and we all have the up days and down days, so you are not alone. chin up.image

    SS- it sounds just like the weather is rubbish there and the only thing it must be good for is sunbathing, and who wants to do that all the time.image as long as you have a plan then you can enjoy your training.

    As for me I have decided that I cannot run marathons with my foot still in a bad way, I can run ok up to about 14-15 miles then it gets realy bad and starts to cause me massive gait issues and pain in my hips etc.
    This does ultimatley mean that my autumn target at Abingdon will be another DNS for me, which after London`s DNS is another bitter pill to swallow image but I will not let the hard work that I have done coming back to some sort of fitness go to waste and will concentrate on some half marathons and some shorter distance races until I can get the surgery done.
    I can also bike so plenty to keep me motivated and hopefully when I can run a marathon again then it will be all the more enjoyable affair for all the past disapointments of this season.

  • Lots of hugs Gazelle. It's far from being shit in my books, 1:40 is a decent time but I know it's not what you were hoping for. You will get it next time, I'm sure.
  • Gazelee - as long as you're not injured then you live on to fight another day. Pick your self up dusty your self down and get beck to the training.

    Speed Sheep - It will take a while for you to understand your current fitness and what is possible in the heat, maybe worth shifting to a HR based plan so pace is not such an issue. There is no rush to have a 6 pack, remeber your mileage will escalate over the next couple of months, if you  don't eat any more than now you will lose weight a quite a rate without trying.

    Shaggy - Shame about the DNS but realistic and obtainable targets are so important. I wonder how much your HM pb will drop over the next few months.

  • My long run on saturday was 11 miles with 8 @7:35, turn out harder than I expected but finished it fine. Did 3.5 miles recovery today over the feilds and tracks in the Adi XT4's nice to try them out for the first time.

  • Race Report:

    What’s happening to me??? Such a bad day today, the lead up to the race was very good, had a little scare during the week when I read the course was very undulating but I got my head around this, ie if you go up a hill you must go down one. The warm up was great and the sun shone.

    The start was fine and I looked at my watch to make sure I wasn't going off too fast to find that I was ok(I did think at the time that’s unusual as normally I have to slow down). Checked my watch again at mile 2 and just knew today was going to be bad, my legs were so heavy and I just felt like I had just ran a 20mile training run. The course was shaped like a lollypop, 4miles out, around the circle of the head then 4miles back along the same route. Splits as follows:

     7:09,7:18,7:02,7:30 (Lolly stick)                                                              7:56,7:47,8:05,8:04,7:43  (Lolly head)                                                                 8:22,8:06,7:58,7:23 (Lolly stick)

     I just seem to fall apart during any long run. I only have two weeks to get my head and body sorted before taper. So I have asked the boss to add in lots of MP miles to the schedule just so I can gain the confidence that I can run the marathon in 5 weeks, yikes. 

  • FRTC The article on visualising was a good read thank you and your mile pb is sooooo good, have you entered Marathon talk's magic mile?

    SS Boo hoo ref your outdoor run today but 100points to you for going on the treadmill to finish the session off, if you hadn't of finished I'm sure you would have been deflated all day so good on you.

    Shaggy, sorry to hear that your foot is still causing you trouble. You will be back to marathons one day but in the meantime go and bag yourself some great 10k and half marathon pbsimage Have you decided to have surgery or not?

    Brolish, cheers for the text it made me smileimage

    ST Your run yesterday sounded good 8m@7:35, you are making me jealous....

  • Oh Gazelle, I'm so sorry to hear it didn't go according to plan image  Give yourself some time to be grizzly and take it all in, and then follow Shaggy's advice and use it positively.  The way I see it, all experience (good and bad) helps us along the way, even if it doesn't feel like it at the time.  Very rarely does a marathon training plan come off without a hitch, so do not panic!!  As Brolish says, 1:40 is still a great time, but I get it's not where you wanted to be.  At least you're not injured, you live to fight another day so get back out there when you're ready and park that race in the dustbin marked 'Races That Were Pants' (my December 2011 HM is already in there, it'll be glad of the company image)

    No early starts for me today, I enjoyed the luxury of a lie in until 7:30!  Spin class and S+C this evening.  I'm loving OH going to the gym too as I now have another 'exercise spy'.  I'm always on the look out for what PTs are making their clients do so I can improve my routine and yesterday OH came back having witnessed a variation on some TRX core work which I'm now going to incorporate image

    Shaggy, I'm really sorry to hear that your foot is still causing you problems image  I really hope you can get it sorted long term.  But great to hear you're focusing on the shorter stuff.  I am sure you will be bagging a few PBs in the months to come!  And at least training for HMs etc. gives your body a bit of a rest from the pounding it takes during full marathon training.

    Brolish, good to see you survived your 'party weekend' image  I hope you had fun!!

    Scuba T, I've been thinking about heart rate stuff and I'm really not sure it would make any difference.  The reason being I am only running at what feels like easy pace, I don't think I could physically slow it any more, I'd be walking.  Looking at my Garmin HR graphs, I seem to be in the comfortable zone until 3-4 miles and then it escalates.  As an example, on one run the other night my average heart rate was: (1) 123; (2) 138; (3) 144: (4) 163; (5) 166; (6) 167.  If you take mile 5, my average of 166 was obtained running at 10:34 m/m and the highest it got during that mile was 177!!    I kid you not.  To say I was devastated by these stats is something of an understatement image  Anyway, I'm just ticking off the runs at the moment and waiting for the winter.....

    Nice run, btw!  And I'm glad the trainers rocked.  I think it will be a while before I get to try mine out.  I'm back in Nov for a couple of weeks so I will have to plan somewhere to test drive them!

    Gazelle, that's exactly why I jumped on the treadmill.  I could feel myself slipping into grizzly mode and I needed those two extra miles to avoid it!!!  Silly, really, but that's running for you image 

  • Gazelle - I think you have the answer to your performance in the post you made. You say you felt like the end of a 20 mile training run with heavy legs, and then that it is 5 weeks to the marathon and so 3 weeks to taper. You are at the peak of your mileage and unlike the last campaign you are pushing harder from a higher base line this is not the time for a PB at HM with no proper taper. Make sure you give yourself a chance to recover from the race and get back to the training and your be fine. Are the kids back to school this week? Maybe a chance to put your feet up and get in some recovery.

    Speed Sheep - The HR training my be just right, your profile shows that you are suffering cardiac drift ie increase heart rate at a constant pace, as you train the drift will be delayed more and more as fitness increases. In the meantime the idea is to lower your pace and maintain the low heart rate, the problem for you is that in the heat that would mean walking so maybe give it a few more weeks before you try that.

  • Hello everyone, I'm back.

    Had a lovely weekend but a bit tiring.  Entertaining friends doesn't go very well with marathon training.  Had to fit all my running in between the drinking somehow...

    Gazelle- Hope you're feeling a bit better today.  I know this must be terribly frustrating but you should take a lot of confidence from all the training and all races you've done, not just this one! Sometime things just don't come together on the day and there is nothing you can do about it.  Onwards and upwardsimage

    SSheep- it sounds like an absolute nightmare with the heat.  I think if I were you I would just stick with the TM until it cools down a bit.  I can't even begin to imagine running in those temperatures.  Hopefully it's only a few more weeks before it becomes more bearable.

    FRTC and ST- great running as always!

    I managed 17m on Saturday (slightly hangover)image and 6m easy yesterday (slightly hangover)image.  Back on the wagon and looking forward to this week.  I have another track session on Tuesday (5 x 600 + 8 x 200) and a tempo run on Friday.  Last week really felt good so I hope it's onwards and upwards from now on.

  • Gazelle, we all have bad days, can't run perfect everytime. Tons of factors affecting you, think back over the last week. Humid day, wrong diet in days before, too much mileage, not enough rest.. even the less obvious like under the weather with slight chest infection or cold.

    Main thing - Ignore, dust yourself off, get back into it later this week after a bit of rest. Wed/ Thu?

    Shaggy, sorry to hear you DNS again, but for time being best thing, plus you can still maintain your 10k/ half speed.

    Brol, good week for you again. That speed session for Tuesday looks a good one, speed & endurance.

    Scuba looks like you are in good nick for the 10mile & half coming up, nice tempo run & pace. How you finding the program?

    Speed Sheep, full marks for you going back to treadmill.
    yes, TRX roll out is their version of the one with the wheel & handles. TRX behind you, body slightly leaning forward, arms in front of you holding straps then gradually lift arms up and lean body more so you are stretching core. You can do it on knees or standing. Remember, no pain no gain. This one hurts - but good for Mission 6 pack. More protein would help, changing your diet. I eat some junk but also lots of eggs, chicken & fish, especially post workouts. Are you a full vegie - do you eat fish?

    Oh, my second ever sub 6 minute mile?
    Was just trying to see it wasn't a fluke when I did a 5m55s mile a month ago, after TR24. Doing 5m52s means it wasn't - 2 speed sessions a week helping? Running say 6:30ish for a mile or two seems much easier and doesn't make me panic so much now that I will crash out.

    I am doing Marathon Talk Mile. Even put an event on list for local area.

    Did 20 miles in ~3hrs yesterday with pal doing his first marathon, 9 miles before club, then club 11 mile long run with tractor shoes on. Comfortable, plus the trail sections stop you over doing the speed so building up nicely, less chance of injury too.

    Multi terrain race tomorrow approx 4 mile, with our tractor shoes.. then doing Hoylake 10k road race on

    Sunday. This week mostly a kick back therefore to conserve energy around these.

  • Shaggy- sorry, I xposted before and missed your post as a result.  So sorry to hear it's not going to happen for you this time- blooming injuries! It does sound however like the only sensible option.  When do you expect to have the op done and how long for recovery? Very impressed with the positive attitude, as always.

  • Morning all,

    Thanks for all your support over the last few days, funny how we love to run then we get all emotional when things don't go our way.

    I did a 3mile recovery run(9:30mm+) last night, my breathing and quads were very heavy after the first mile so I ran on feel for the remainder of the run, splits are: 9:26, 9:43,9:36. Today is a rest day then positive marathon training for 5 weeks starts on Wednesday. Kids went back to school today so I should be able to have a nice routine and run as soon as I have dropped them off, thinking about it, the last 6 weeks of running hasn't flowed like normal as I have had to juggle a lot of the sessions and times around, oh how I love routineimage

    Brolish, I'm glad you had a good weekend, it's always nice to let your hair down and have some fun. Good Luck tonight on your speed session have you done this one before? Are you nervous or excited?

    FRTC, fair play to you for organising the Marathon talk mile, hopefully you will have a good turn out for the event. What time will you be aiming for? I'm betting 5min 40 secsimage Good luck with your race tonight, go show them how its done.

    ST, SS and Juggler How has your training been over the last few days?

    Take care all,

    Gazelle

     

  • Gazelle- glad to hear you will be able to get back to your routine, I'm sure things will go well for you and it was just a little blip! Are you doing any more races before the main event?  And what is the date of the main event again, I need to put it in my calendar!image

    I don't think I've ever done 200m intervals... maybe once with the club.  I'm always nervous before going to the track but trying to embrace it.  I always feel great afterwards and very proud of myself if I manage to hit the paces! These short intervals are different from what I'm used to but the nice thing about them is that you never suffer for too long.image

    I have a half marathon coming up next weekend...

  • Brol, Gazelle is doing Chester mara on October 6th. So is Mike too! I will be there supporting and take some photos. Maybe even post an update.

    Paces? you have paces? So thats where I've been going wrong.image

    I don't think I've ever done 200metres either, lots of fartleks, hill sprints and similar though. Guess the boss is trying to develop your speed.

    what pace does he have you doing? Good luck with your session.

     I'm currently doing very little work and doing PMA watching great races, red mist is up 5 hours in advance. hehe.

  • Hello all!  A quiet day for me today, I did a training session yesterday during which I felt exhausted and didn't manage half of what I set out to do.  But I still managed to kick some butt during spin class.  How does that work???!  Anyway, I thought I'd have a rest day today and get in some quality recovery.

    Also, I've finally bitten the bullet and booked an appointment with the physio.  I've been trying to stretch my calf out loads and have really been hoping the pain would just go away by itself, but this morning when I got up it hurt when walking around for the first time image  I can't ignore that there is something going on that won't sort itself out with simple stretching.  Luckily, he had a slot tomorrow lunchtime so I will  see what he says and report back.  

    Gazelle, good to hear you're feeling more positive!  It's always difficult adjusting to when something doesn't go according to plan.  Get back on with the training, get back into your routine and hopefully it will all settle back into place.

    FRTC, am looking forward to hearing how tonight's run goes!  I am also looking forward to testing out the new core move at the gym tomorrow.  I think I saw a guy doing that yesterday, he wasn't doing very well.....  I am upping my protein anyway, but no I don't eat fish.

    Scuba, that's really interesting about cardiac drift.  I looked it up on the net and found loads of great articles and also a tri forum in Florida where one guy had the same as me.  I didn't post my split times for the 6 miles, but it was amazing to see that my effort level actually went down as my heart rate went up!!  Also, the articles I read said the effects were most noticable after around 25 mins, which correlates with my experiences over miles 4-6, and also that it is massively exacerbated by heat and dehydration.  So, I know what it is, I just have to get used to it.  Mind you, I guess this all depends on what the physio says image

    Brolish, how did the 200s go?  I like running on the track sometimes, it's very easy just to zone out and get on with the job.  Mind you, I've never done really short efforts like that.  I wonder what sort of speeds you will register?  Interesting!

    So tomorrow my plan is an 8 mile treadmill run with 4 miles at HMP.  Assuming the physio says I'm good to go, I will take 12kph (8 m/m) as HMP as that seemed to work fine the other day and I'm not trying to overload myself right now.  I'm not sure if I'm up to doing the 4 miles in one go just yet as I've really not done sufficient chunks of pace yet, but I will play it by ear and see how I feel.  The good thing about all this cardiac drift malarky and feeling like shit outside means that I can be tougher with myself when I'm inside as now I really do know what it feels like when it feels REALLY bad!!!

  • FRTC- lol re pacesimage.  Yes, the idea with shorter intervals is to get me to the point when longer intervals @ around my 10k pace don't feel ridiculously hard so that I can do more of them.

    SSheep- oh no, hope the leg is okimage.  Good luck with the tempo tomorrow in a nicely air conditioned gym!

    I am supposed to do 600s @ 6:30mm pace so around 2m27s with 2min recoveries and try to keep them consistent.  200s are to be done in 48s but I am allowed to go faster if I can. Will report back.image

  • Hi again athletes image

    Sounds like everyone is experiencing mixtures of highs and lows at the moment!!

    FRTC good luck for the run tonight! Lots of PMA heading your way!

    Brolish, clearly you are being pushed on the speed front. that should set you up nicely for the weeks ahead!image

    Gazelle! Sorry to hear about the weekend's run. Sounds rather like my half from a few weeks ago. Well, these things happen. and glad to see you are already looking forward to getting into more of a routine. Does sound tho' from your recovery run update, as if you were just a bit too tired. It happens to the best of us sometimes!!!image

    shaggy sorry to hear about the DNS. Hope that you can enjoy some good H/Ms in the meantime.

    SSheep, really hope the leg is okay. Your other updates have mostly been really positive and sounds like your training is really coming along. Good luck with physio tomorrow.

    ST, I see you had a good long run at the weekend. did mine this morning (Course starts on Thursday, so possibly my last mid-week long run for a while.) 11 miles at just over 7:35, so we must be running about the same pace. Except that my course was pretty flat, it's one of the joys of running along the seafront!image

    Back yesterday from a very relaxed weekend away.imageimage Had a great time, including some very gentle bike rides with Mrs J. Only downside is that Mrs J has been unwell since we got back. image Missed her first day at school in a very long time. Shame it was first day of term. But she seems to be picking up now.

    Waves to all imageimageimage

  • Welcome back Juggler.  Sounds like you had a nice time away.  Hope Mrs J is better.

    FRTC- how did it go yesterday?  I'm sure you rocked!image

    My speed session went well last night.  Managed all 600s in very consistent 2:18-2:20 and 200s in 45s-40s with the last two being the fastest.  I'm beggining to enjoy these track sessions in a strange way...imageimage.

    13m @ 8:46 done this morning on the way to work.  It felt ok but I'm falling asleep again.image

  • Hehe. I always rock. positive thinking.

    It was a tough course, approx 350ft of hills, 2 laps, 175ft on each, but started with a lap of a field, masses of mole hills... then out into park/ countryside.. very hard work going up and down, avoiding tree branches, rocks, stumps,  then onto stone, uneven surfaces, and that was before you hit the hill which was sharp rocks, really had to place your feet.

    I didn't look at my garmin once. Heard it beep, but just did it on feel, which as I tell Mrs FRC was at the pointy end of the stick pace wise.. painful, hard, almost flat out but not quite at your limit - or was it?. Started off way too fast I thought, I could see some of our really good club runners 2-3 people ahead even at mid way point. At a couple of points, sheer rock and you had to hurdle or pull yourself up. None of this was flat, but that hill was an absolute lung buster... then straight down the other side, rocks, trail, and onto road briefly, I wondered why some sprinted ahead.. a stile, so queuing. A few just climbed over, would have gained vital seconds. Cheered on by various people at club, coaches etc, even my pal Ritchie shouting "Come on FRC, you're doing fantastic!" I think I was well ahead of where they expected. Oh, and that was just lap 1. image

    More of the same lap 2, man that hill felt really tough second time. I wouldn't let anyone pass me though. Just managed to get a bit of breather or needed in mile 3 - think everyone did.. onto the road again, towards stile and sprinted to stay clear. 2-3 people just ahead, within my sights now. I focussed on them. Those Adidas shoes are very grippy, any little rises, I gained on them. 20 ft became 10... then 5ft. Another earth muddy section rose up and I got past them, just kept going.  They were NOT getting past me. I did mentally say "Fast Feet, Fast Arms, Shoes" at one point... then into finishing field and 2 more just ahead. Full sprint, absolutely flat out, I went past them, cheers from running club people.

    Finished in 33:46 for 4.7 miles,  splits were good considering the course was so hard. 7:11 / 7:34/ 7:04 / 7:40 /4:17. 

    Brol, glad the intervals went well, we had faith in you!

    Juggler, nice to see all is well

    More later. Waves to Athletes.

     

  • FRTC- sounds like a challenging race.  Rocking as always, well done!image

    SSheep- hope the tempo goes well today.

    Gazelle- what are you up to this week?

  • Wow, what a run FRTC, that sounds amazing!  I think those shoes are clearly getting great use!  Great effort.

    Brolish, you are doing really well!  I'm so glad the track is becoming your friend image  Mixing up the training is bound to help lots so keep enjoying it.

    Juggler, I hope Mrs J is on the mend.  Not a nice way to end a weekend away image.

    So, the physio.  Well, he was very encouraging and he doesn't think it is the same as last time which fits with the symptoms I've been having i.e. similar but not exactly the same.  He thinks is is a strain/tear of the soleus, right at the point it meets the gastroc.  There is clearly something biomechanical going on which is making me vulnerable to calf issues on my right leg so I'm seeing the ortho on Sunday to see what he thinks and the physio's going to come into the consult to see what's going on first hand which I'm really pleased about.  I've been running with orthotics for the past couple of years and, of course, I was due a check up at the beginning of the year but it just got forgotten image  It may be that I need new orthotics, or whatever it was they needed to correct has been corrected and they are now causing other issues.  Either way, Sunday will be helpful.

    In the mean time, he's taped me up again (no smurf blue this time, boring beige), I've got to ice and then I have to go for a 30 min run on Friday and report back.  No speedwork for the time being, just time on feet.  We had a really good chat about my plans for next year and we are both of the opinion that I should not run Dubai but concentrate on London instead.  My heart wants to go for both, but my head realises I may well jeopardise both if I try.  London has to be my priority as I cannot defer again (and I want to do the Two Oceans in 2014 image) so I will just have to make the most of my GFA start and hope I can follow in Gazelle's footsteps and make 3:30.  Mind you, I will be happy with anything under 3:45 at this rate as that will be a PB.  Actually, scrap that, just to get on the start line will make me happy!!!!

    Some good news, I got my essay back today and amazingly it went really well so I am super relieved image!! Just one little exam to go..........

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