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RW Forum Six - 3.30
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Afternoon all athletes. Sound like training is going very well.
Gazelle! Like ST, I'm probably too late, but ... have a great time away
ST, that's a good long run. Well done!
SS Great achievement on the 3x50 front!!! Extremely well done
I like the sound of the six pack challenge for you ladies as well. You'll be giving FRTC a run for his money !!! (pun intended 
)
Brolish,some very good sessions going on from from you. Well impressed with doing intervals without a rest period
FRTC, hope you enjoyed the charity football
Decided at the last minute to do Henfield half this morning. Not my best ever idea, as I've added a few pounds over the summer and wasn't feeling great either! Consequently, slowest half marathon this year. Still, it's not a bad little run and I did enjoy the company, just did not enjoy the heat!!!! No time for a proper race report, bullet points were:
Waves to all
Juggler - Loving the spur of the moment Half, on the hotest day of the year, what came over you?
Hope everyone else is enjoying the lovely weather.
Morning all! Sounds like it's a good weekend in the UK
. Unsurprisingly, the sun is shining and the sky is blue here too 
So, my training's gone well this weekend. A couple of spin classes and an easy 45 treadmill effort yesterday which felt really easy. Now Ramadan has finished and there is no risk of arrest for water consumption, I will be back outside.
I need some advice. I've been planning my potential marathon action for 2013. The Dubai marathon is on 25 Jan, London on 21 April (or thereabouts). According to P+D, 12 weeks between marathons is fine (if you're insane!) and there is a program in the book for getting you through it. I've now got 5 weeks before I would need to start my proper scheduled training for Dubai. So what I thought I would do is introduce a couple of speed sessions per week and extend my long run every week over the next 5 weeks to see how my leg holds up. If it's feeling good by the time I should start my P+D schedule, I enter Dubai. If not, I rest up until I need to start my training for London.
Am I being crazy thinking about doing both, or should I just concentrate on London??? The reason I want to do Dubai is because I live 5 mins from the start, it's perfect weather conditions and it is flat and FAST. That means I get a great go at running 3:30. Also, the challenge of running two just appeals to me. Anyway, I've got a few weeks to decide yet, I suppose.
Scuba, amazing session!! Wow, you must be really pleased you managed that. Which marathon are you training for and when is it? As for my studies, this essay is a case study on offender profiling. The crime we are analysing is a serial sexual murderer who takes particular delight at frenzied stabbing/slashing post-mortem. It is not cheery stuff
Juggler, brilliant spontaneous running!! Sub 1:45 given the conditions you describe is no mean feat, so well done you
And I'm glad you're another male who's supporting our core efforts!! Clearly, this 3:30 thread is more open-minded than the other 
I hope everyone else made the most of the weather this weekend!
Speed Sheep - You need to decide which of the 2 marathons are your A target first. But you have either 5 or 17 weeks to lead into P&D either way I wouldn't start that build up by adding speed sessions first, I'd add more easy miles and maybe an odd tempo. You need to build your base not speed at this stage maybe do the first Mesocycle of P&D twice and make it a 23 week plan.
Your study sounds like the sort of stuff my OH studied and still reads alot about, not very nice but very intresting.
I'm training for Great South Run 10miler at the end of Oct and then on to either Paris or London if i get a ballot place.
Saturdays run was hard but please to finish it, however this morning was not as good. I was meant to do 6x800 at 6:10-15mm with 1:30RI the first interval I couldn't get any fast than 6:30 the next couple I got a bit closer to target 6:20ish then a couple more at 6:25ish and the last one I just struggled through at 6:35mm. I need to check the exact splits on Garmin but it was not good. I find I'm a bit too quick in the first quarter of the interval and then slow the rest of the way through, I know I need to keep a more even pace but also I think I need to lower the target by maybe 5sec a mile and make it more doable. Its odd because I manage the tempo and long runs with out to much hardship but just can't make the pace for the intervals.
ST Sounds like you are working hard on those intervals. great Stuff. As to lowering the intervals target, probably wise at this stage. the weather is going to affect how fast you can run anyway, so allowing yourself a few more seconds per mile is probably a good thing.
SS I don't think i'd like to do your study. I worked in criminal justice for over 20 years, albeit on the IT side, but happy to leave some of that stuff behind. As ST says, it is very interesting, but not very nice at all.
Ref your speed sessions, why are you thinking of introducing two sessions at this stage? Generally, introduce one speed session, stick with that for a few weeks before introducing the second. You have joints to take care of!!!! As for the Dubai marathon, personally, I'd struggle to do two good marathons in the space of 12 weeks, BUT, if you think you can get fit enough for a good go at 3:30 in Dubai, why not? London can get very crowded anyway and some of my friends that have taken it seriously say they wouldn't go for a PB at London (just shows how well Gazelle! did to get her 3:30 there!). Do you have a GFA place for London?
Waves to all
Hello everyone
SSheep- whoop whoop on the press-up challenge. Very very impressive indeed.
. I do programme my garmin for the more complicated session, it's quite straight forward using the training centre. I've googled my volume issues and it looks like it's a common problem when sweat/ rain water get into the garmin. I'm going to try to get it fixed by I've had it for a couple of years so it might just make sense to get a new one at some point.
I agree you should decide which mara is you A target and it sounds like it should be Dubai- it being flat and fast. Another vote for not introducing any speed work just yet. Get your miles up to 35-40mph with easy running first. I think starting with 2 speed workouts a week without a good base and coming back from the injury might be a bad idea. I don't think I would fancy doing 2 maras all out within 12 weeks but if you take a more relaxed approach to London I can't see why not.
ST- great run yesterday and very impressive pace. I wouldn't worry too much about the intervals today. Is it normal with FIRST to do a tempo run followed by intervals the next day? I know it has a lot of quality but it sounds quite tough. You must've been a bit knackered from yesterday?
Juggler- lol about your spontaneous half! On such a hot day! Very well done considering the conditions... I don't think I could run a half anywhere near 1.45 yesterday.
I had a very good 20m run yesterday. Was petrified knowing that it was going to be 30+ degrees so didn't take any chances. Set off early and took it easy (just over 9mm) which seemed to do the trick. I've also now developed a ridicuous running tan
.
Brolish - Glad your 20 miler went well and your tan got topped up too. I know 9 miles @ 7:40 might sound like a tempo run but that is a long run on this half program, I did have a rest day as that was saturday.
ST- lol, 9m @ 7:40 sounds very much like tempo to me!
Well done Juggler, hot day so full marks for doing a half such short notice and when you knew it was going to be tough.
Speed Sheep, 3 x 50 press ups,??great stuff. Alekna is an excellent core exercise. Did see a 5-10 mins 10 exercise routine with these in, will post link for everyone, or can suggest others.
Mission 6 pack is a good aim. Sprinters diet interesting? mostly what you'd expect, porridge, lot of lean fish/ chicken, sweet potato, brown rice, veg/ salads.??Most of these supplements not needed, though I do some protein post speed strength session. Actually SS, as a vegetarian, do you eat fish? Shakes might help you get the protein levels. I lost a lot of weight going low GI, maybe not mentioned it? I'm about 2lb off 6 stone lighter than then right now & expect to lose more by next marathon.
RE: your course, not sure if you've seen recent UK events about Ian Brady - his advocate arrested. Programme on tonight, allegedly still trying to control victims families, location of bodies in letter. Missus FRC just qualified as a counsellor and covered similar subjects, not easy.
Agree also, no to 2 speed sessions a week, build up safely. Maybe aim to use Dubai mara as a proof you can cope with mileage but not full pace, London as A race?
Scuba, good running. To hit those interval paces, can you not up the rests a touch? As Yassos they'd be 2:30 or more. To do intervals on my own, I need music. Others with me, dead easy, tis strange.
Brol, great mileage as always. The sun always out on your runs!
No injuries at football match. Ended up playing all of it, so 2x 45mins running up??& down wing, mostly without the ball
Sunday, not a traditional way to do long 15 mile run. Met up with club pals along their route, so did 12 miles part trail (12 @ 8.30mm) ending up at country park where club summer social BBQ & handicap race was on. Half an hour break and then 3.1m / 5k race, mostly flat but rough ground, track, some mud.
The day before very tired legs. On the day 12 miles done already so no idea what could do.??Handicap race??fun, staggered start times seeing people leave. Red mist in spades, race face on from 0-11 minutes waiting to go. Tigger appeared!
Finished in??20m30s, which is a new 5k PB! Even lost a few seconds needing to check route at a fork.??So those fatigue levels, Ha! Splits 6:32/6:38/6:45.??Oh and I won the overall handicap race too.
Wow, FRTC, another PB? This thread is just crumbling under the weight of them! Sounds like you were on fire
Brolish, I know only too well what you mean about ridiculous runners' tan.....! Just one of the things we have to suffer
Glad to hear you now know what's wrong with your Garmin volume. I will investigate the data centre as i've never tried it, always just programmed it manually, but then I've never done very complicated sessions with it.
Thanks all for the fab advice. I think that, as things stand, Dubai is my A race. That is where I want to go for 3:30 as I think I've the best chance of making it. You're all so right about building up milage base. The reason I was panicking about adding speed sessions is the first week of P+D (I'm looking at the "Up to 55 miles per week" schedule) has a lactate threshold session on the Tuesday which comprises 8 miles, 4 of which are at half marathon pace. Quite frankly, I couldn't run one mile at HMP right now!!!
But Scuba, I really like your idea of doing the first mesocycle twice. Perhaps I could follow the plan but substitute the threshold sessions for something a bit less intense e.g. 6 miles including 5x5 mins at threshold with 2 min recovery? I will need to reduce the mileage as the first week totals 33m and I'm not there yet, the longest run I've done is 45 mins. But by the time I've finished mesocycle 1 once, I will be at the requisite mileage and have built up threshold gradually so should be able to manage 8 miles with 4 at HMP and will know whether Dubai is an option or not. Does that sound more sensible?
Juggler, yes I got a GFA for London this year and have deferred to 2013. I am not sure whether that means I will still get a GFA start though.
FRTC- congrats on another impressive pb!
SSheep- I wouldn't panic about doing 4m @ HMP, you'll be fine. How are you going to work out your paces? Based on your previous pbs? It might be a good idea to do a 5k or 10k race once your mileage is up and before starting on P&D- it would give you a good idea of where you are and what paces to use. The danger of using your pb from months ago is that you might not be quite there with your fitness at the moment. You don't want to start training with too fast paces, it will only lead to frustration if you can't hit them, if not injury. Better to start slightly conservatively. You will be back to your best in no time, I'm sure
.
SSheep- I'm sure your GFA status still stands. Can't see why not.
Thanks Brol. 12-13 miles is probably your normal warm up for a 5k
Completely agree with you about pacing and where should Speed Sheep start training - its an unknown.. thats why I liked the idea of Dubai almost as a tune up race with London as the long term goal. More time to build up? Or another April/ May race like Edinburgh even.
You've got the 10k times for Thunder Run though - I reckon about 6-7 minutes off flat 10k time for single daylight lap.
Hamstring a bit wibbly (technical physio term
) so think I'm going to practice what I preach and skip the 5k on Wednesday.
FRTC- ouch, hope it's nothing serious!
Morning all! OK, here's the plan. Dubai will remain my A race (assuming the next 5 weeks go OK and I enter the race) unless my pace is obviously not there. In that case, I will use it as a tune up and aim for 3:30 in London, or I drop down to the 10k distance (the one OH and his mate are doing). The only thing that makes me feel slightly sick about that fall back option is the US120 entrance fee for the marathon
(mind you, the prize money is US250,000 
) so that's another reason why I'm not exactly rushing to enter.....
As for my pacing, I'm not thinking at all about where I was, I'm going for 'controlled discomfort' at a pace which feels right for me right now. At the minute I'm confined to the treadmill. I'm sure it is perfectly possible to do intervals and runs at MP in 35 degrees, I'm just not interested in finding out!! I'm quite happy to do LSRs and recovery runs outside, but anything else will be gym-based until Oct/Nov. What I lose in road feel, I at least gain in accuracy.
I looked back through last summer's training notes and my MP runs were 12kph (8m/m) and intervals at 13kph, harder shorter efforts at 14kph and mega fast sprints at 15kph, all at 1% incline. So last night I decided to take it down a notch and do a 10k effort with 5x5 intervals. I ran my warmup at 9kph, my intervals at 12kph, my jog recovery (2 mins) at 9kph, and then ran the remaining distance at 10kph. Nothing too extreme, just a gentle reintroduction to a bit of speed and all felt very good!! I was delighted. Clearly spin has kept some fast twitch muscle activity, although 12kph wasn't exactly my legs too much. But all in all, a very manageable session, I could clearly have gone faster, but I have no intention of doing so until I feel confident my leg is holding up.
I am going to follow the outline of P+D mesocycle 1 for the next 5 weeks, adapting the sessions and mileage as I go to build up slowly so that I feel in control. Then hopefully I will be able to start the plan proper at the end of September
I am going to continue with my non-scientific winging it method of pacing so I don't get panicked or frustrated, and just see how it goes......... If I can find a 10k in Sept/Oct, I will revisit off the back of that.
FRTC, I hope the hammie is OK. Good idea to skip the 5k, just take it easy.
SS: Yep its possible to do MP & Intervals outdoors right now, I would get used to it soon, its been 30C on marathon day before now. There are at least 2 x 10K in October check http://www.premiermarathons.com/. Given that I think you live at the marina the ABRa'S one is right on your doorstep. As to the entrance fee for Dubai marathon its on about par with other big city marathons and given the amount of road closures they have its probably actually quite reasonable. Anyway Good luck
Speed Sheep - Sounds like a good sort of plan to me. Also a good session to get back into a session run rather than a steady pace run. You will need to translate from those iffy french units of measure into good old fashion mph or min mile if you want me to understand what pace you were doing
. Sounds like DD thinks you should HTFU and go outdoors, easy for me to say sat in the UK. How long before you have to confirm your entry to the Marathon? I think it would be very useful for your training paces to get a 10k under your belt in the next month or so.
FRTC - Hows the hamstring today?
Brolish - what have you been up to?
Gym last night, lots of different core exercises and a few lunge/squat variants. I went for it but don't seem to be suffering this morning. Tempo run this evening 5-6miles at 7:15mm.
Hi Dubai Dave! Yes, I admit to being a total wimp
I will see how I go with normal pacing outside before stepping it up a gear. I will also check out those 10ks, thanks so much for that. I'm not actually down by the marina, but opposite side of SZR from Emirates Towers so it's not exactly far to get there 
Scuba, alas the treadmill is only programmed in kph so I have to work with what I've got. It confuses me too
But as I say, 12kph is equivalent to MP 8m/m. I've got ages before I have to confirm marathon entry, I'm at least going to trot through the next 5 weeks and see how things are going. Good to hear you didn't suffer from your gym efforts, great conditioning!!
SSheep- very excited for you about your mara training plans
. I'm totally with you on not doing speed work outside in 30+ degrees
. I have just about got used to doing my easy/ long runs in the heat but will keep on doing my speedwork at 5.30am until it cools down, thank you very much!
ST- nice gym session, good luck with the tempo tonight!
Well I've been taking it easy this week in preparation for my 10k tomorrow night (I wasn't really going not to tell you) and spending all my spare time praying for the heavens to open and the weather to turn shit.
.
SS: Ah so you are probably about 100M from where I'm sat in my office writing this! I suggest you get used to paces / distances in K's as no one thinks in miles in Dubai. Most years you can enter the marathon about 1 week before.
Bro: if you live here its above 30C for 9 months of the year, you either adjust or don't run. I was 29C at 0500 this morning when I went out on my bike.
DD- I guess if I lived there I wouldn't have a choice and I definitely wouldn't stop running!
. I think the key is the consistency, in the UK this hot weather never lasts long enough for you to get used to it properly...
Funny that Dubai pipes in whenever Speed Sheep says its too hot outside.
Gym sounds good Scuba, enjoy the tempo
Hamstring is a bit tight, little knotty bit after the 5k PB on Sunday but not awful, I wouldn't want to push it at race pace for a 5k or 10k.
did club speed session last night anyway. the hill sprint to straight session so up a steep hill, bend at top, power through (fast feet/ hands), keep the speed going. Its probably 400m, then recoveries. X 10.
Kept strong right through all 10, usually from the front. A few had been away on holidays, one asked was I doing drugs with the recent improvement. Funny. Lead from the front so hammy tight but okay. Loosen it up tonight with speed / strength usually works, or get a massage if needed.
FRTC - Good session again, but take it easy if hamstring is still tight better to rest than be injured.
Brolish - good luck with the 10km tonight, remember to take it easy at the start and wind it up from half way to a strong fast finish. You've done lots of speed and interval work so you have the pace, you just need to use it in the right way.
2mile easy, 5 miles @ 7:15mm, 1 mile easy last night all done on pace or a few secodns under, so well happy with that. Sore back this morning after a bad nights sleep so maybe gym tomorrow morning rather than tonight. Another hard long run for the weekend something like 2 miles easy, 11 miles @ 7:50, 1 mile easy.
ST- thanks, I will do my best.
. Nice tempo run yesterday and a good pace as always. Take it easy with the sore back!
Brol, that all anyone can ask. do your best, and be happy with that. Enjoy it too
Scuba, nice run. hope the back is okay.
Will pop in later. Trail shoes going on.
Good luck Brolish!!
Hello everyone
So yesterday went OKish. 45:13 so not quite a pb but getting closer, and definitely an improvement on the last time.
The weather cooperated with me for once and it cooled down in the evening so definitely no excuses. Nice semi- formal race with no chipping and around 100 runners. 3 lap course around Regents Park, nice and flat with some sharp turns but generally fast. Got there very early and did a 3m warm up with some strides. The plan was: 1st mile- 7:15, 2nd mile- 7:10, 3rd mile- 7:10, 4th mile- 7:05, 5th and 6th mile as fast as I can.
Splits were: 7:16, 7:11, 7:17, 7:10, 7:07, 7:13. So the first two miles almost spot on. Not sure what happened in mile 3- I was going at the right pace, then turned around a sharp bend and boom- dropped down to 7:17. From then on it was just trying to run as fast as I could really. Not much left in the tank in the last mile but all in all it felt a lot better than the last time when I died after mile 4 and crawled to the finish line in 7:30/ 7:40.
Was a bit disappointed to start with but then looked at my pb run and according to my garmin I ran 6:13m @ 7:08. This time it was 6:3m @ 7:11. So really not far off and considering that I ran my pb at the very peak of my training for Copenhagen I hope it will get smashed in a few weeks. So feeling POSITVE FRTC
.
Happy Friday everyone!
Brolish - Great result, well done. Don't wory about third mile a sharp coner will add 5-10 seconds by the time you slow down to get round it and then have to get back up to pace again.You paced it as planned and finished strong when you race again in a few weeks you will PB now you know the right paces to go at.
My back is still pretty sore, still not worked out what I did to it. Rest again today, no gym, and hopefully ok to do my long run on saturday.
Hope everyone has a great bank holiday weekend.