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I do, however, have enormous empathy with how you are feeling as I am having all the same thoughts re my double.!
What I learn't from my first year was not to think to much about the big event and just focus on the training week by week. One of the pirates said to me "trust in the training" , this has become my mantra.
With regard to time, I am training pretty much all the times at Zone 2 (75-85% of my measured max). Now and again I'll take a head stagger and say 'f___ it', and just beast myself, that's how I found a new max last week lol.
However, generally I have to take the time that my Z2 gives me. I can run a marathon in a smidge over 4 hours and HM in about 1:45, but if I want to finish Outlaw I have read that I need to maintain my HR in that Zone 2.
I'm getting stronger and faster on the bike for the same HR, I'm proving that to myself week on week. Tonight I managed to maintain average 19mph on the turbo (lets not get into cadence here) for a full hour whilst maintaining zone 2. Last week I could only manage 16.5 and the week before I was busted after 42 mins and 12 miles. My forfeit for my stupidity tonight is a groin as tight as a bow string and I'll suffer tomorrow.
My running isn't going to get quicker before Outlaw, I'm sure of that as I have dropped the speed sessions in favour of distance and Bike. But I am hoping that when I get off the bike I'll maintain some sort of attempt at running the whole distance. What I will actually feel like is way beyond my experience or imagination.
During the swim I'm only interested in maintaining form and staying calm. However, it isn't worrying me. I am swimming @ about 17:10 for 800 metres and I can maintain that over 4 consectutive sets of the same. I'll keep building and keep attending set sessions so I should get this right on the day.
As an aside, my tri club's club president, a man of 11 previous IMs is attempting an indoor IM distance in a couple of weeks. I'm training with him this Friday for the full swim distance, which will tell me a lot.
My point (eventually) is that, because I don't know, I can only read that the HR will dictate my effort and time. I need to be training to keep clipping along, whilst keeping that steady. If needs be any catch up will come down to how much I want it.
That's all hypothetical as this is my first attempt.
Thanks so much for all your comments. Its very helpful. My confusion with training to avoid being close to the cut-offs though is that if I'm training in zone 2, then my bike speed is 13.5 mph average and my run speed is 13m/miles. If I try to go faster than that I can't keep it going. So how do I train to go faster without pushing my heart rate up to zone 4/5? I suppose as Barlos says, I could do a 5 hour bike session instead of a 3 hour one which might result in speeding up. I'm following Fink intermediate schedule so should I increase the times that the schedule says?
I think I feel an email to mentor Min coming on.............
You would also do shorter sessions in a higher HR and the two will compliment each other
Soupy, do you have a mentor?
Firstly, im not to hot on HR training so will defer to someone who is re the Fink plan.
I will say that if I had a £1 for every pirate that was concerned in January that their bike speed was only x mph yet went on to a successful Ironman id almost have enough for the S5 frame ive been lusting over.
Something to consider and discuss with your mentor is that the Fink plan may not necessarily fit everyone? im not saying doing follow it, just that everyone is different, some may need to prioritise different disciplines?
Certainly dont change anything now, if youre already averaging 13.5mph that isnt a bad place to be. Like I said earlier, there is a lot of time between now and July.
Another thing to consider is tribars, its really worth getting used to them in training as on race day and used well with a good aero position your looking at an extra 1-2mph free speed. Something else to think about it bike handling, are you making the most of your energy, i.e. gaining confidence to stay off the brakes on some down hills, carrying speed through bends and rises in the road, being in the correct gear, riding at a good cadence etc etc.
Yes you could probably do it, how quickly can you recover, can you recover sufficiently to do the successive sessions and what have you gained from the extra 3 hours?
Personal I train better on quality rather than quantity
If you can blag the odd 5 hour ride and make it count thene go for it ... know you, know your limits and as a wise old bird once said 'trust the training'
Hi Barlos - I've got a gold-plated mentor in Iron Min so I will have a chat with her. I just got some tri bars and had a go at the weekend. Ask Dustboy about what sound I made??? He likened it to an air raid siren starting up! I'm going to need some practice on them.
My downhill is getting better but I've still got to work on it because I use the brakes too much.
I guess I need to ride my bike, ride my bike, ride my bike!
Sorry. Meldy gave me a much needed nudge.... I've been remiss in popping in because I've had meetings, exams and injury to contend with.
Right - Soupy - what Meldy said about HR is bang on - you train at Z2 for aaaages thinking that you aren't going to get any faster and then one day *ping*, you just do. Stick with it - and remember how postiive you were the other day?
There is also a lot of depth in the thought of not just training for the cut offs - that puts way too much pressure on you on the day.
You have Dustboy to galvanise you on the bike - but, what I would say there is do be careful to ride to your HR; the problem with riding with other people is that keeping to your HR can be tricky.Sadly, HR training can be a lonely game, unless your training partners are okay with going with your speed, not theirs.
Fink has got many many people through with complete success - you know you can do this. I know you can do this. We have dicussed your postiive attitude to life many times and the way you make changes to it to make your like better for you. That takes guts. Walking away from that fab job? That took guts.
So - please don't leave it too late to contact me if I don't pop in - I try to avoid social media cos I get too sidetracked and I simply have to much to do to lose hours in the virtual world!
This is a great thread and a great idea - but as Coach B says, keep it positive.
thanks min - I was just about to email you. I've felt okay about the training so far but I think the weekend's 40 miler gave me a wake-up call. I was slow as soon as a few little hills and a bit of a head wind got thrown in.
I really want to keep this positive too. As I said, it is about fostering self-belief, not about a contest for last place. It just gets a bit daunting sometimes.
and yes, without doubt - we can all do this!
Soupy re the bike speed in training, an 8 hour bike split is around 14mph, so if you are doing 13.5 in winter on crappy roads with traffic and pirate faffage, then you are in a good position from which to build. For what it's worth, my first IM most of my training rides averaged around 12mph, the extra 2 came on race day with not having to stop at junctions etc. And as for self doubt, after the last sportive before race day, the pace had been so slow I sat down on the ground at the end in tears, and told Kanga, Ferret, and JD that there was absolutely no way I would make it round. They said I would, and they were right.
Also, that last sportive was such a miserable f*ckin day, that every time anything hurt on race day, it just didn't seem that bad in comparison!
Feck Barlos - I've invested 6 weeks already!
Soupy - you're average speed on DB's ride at the weekend must have been very similar to mine.And it was a strong ride all round. I think you'll be fine.
Though I must admit I hadn't thought about anybody elses Z2, mainly worrying about mine. Especially when it went out the window trying to keep up with GB!
Now, about my swimming....
Not very long at all Soupy.
I averaged about 14mph, and that was mostly down to 1 or 2 fast sections that I will be riding slower next time. Like the railway bridge switchback
.
I tried to keep to steady 15mph on the flat as I reckoned it was a good mean for everyone. That's not a bad speed, providing you can hold it as an average and that gives you a bit spare in the pot timewise. Faffage time really needs to be minimised. This would happen naturally to some degree once the route is known.
I defer to the successful finishers here absolutely but I also think that refuelling on the go needs to be practised too as does your confidence descending. On the day, you don't have to navigate, you just follow the signs so that does make it easier for not stopping.
As mentioned on the day, I will be using that 40 mile loop (500M ascent) as my basis for Outlaw training. It does seems a hell of a lot shorter once you know it! Anyone is welcome to join in. And Soupy, the first time I did the Mytchett bends descent, I also made "air raid siren noises" and fried brakes on the old bike. Now, it's flat out and pedalling all the way (shameless Cyfac plug).
Am I forgiven?
Thats all very reassuring - thanks. Speshly the bit about Cat being a fatty!
Its a great 40 mile route dusty and I'm keen to do it again, even the hill and zig zags.
Hi Soupy - I think your view on the group rides is very sensible. They are more fun, I know, but if you are then worrying about HR, you are losing the value of the session, and perhaps more importantly, on the day there will be miles when you might not see a soul you know and you will not have the group camardie in the same way - it is well worth training without out. I know because I did every long ride for my first event with friends and paid dearly on the day. At the risk of sounding harsh, the idea of training is to emulate, as far as possible, race day conditions - or prepare for them at least. And for the others - they won't be waiting at junctions on the day as so getting little breaks. Perhaps mix it up a bit? But the most important thing is to be selfish and maintain your own HR.
Also, from my own experience, and I do caveat that this may just be me, I tend to avoid threads such as the Fink one when I am training - in fact I rarely report on my training anywhere, simply because I get so downhearted when i see what everyone else is doing. Self protection. This does mean that my interaction on here, FB and Twitter dies off quite a bit and I feel bad about that, but come the day that I have spent hard earned cash on, I'll be on my own.
I wouldn't worry about not going along with people as you're worried about slowing them down... Sunday for me was a social ride... I did 100% of my training in total solitude last year (including a couple of 100m+ rides) so if I choose to go along I am happy to accept I won't be riding at my pace and knew this before, as this year I want to make the journey as fun as possible!
If (when) I come along again it will be on the full knowledge that the pace might not be as high as when I'm on my own... but that's mine and anybody else's choice and for the occasional ride I think it is much more important to go for the enjoyment rather than just blowing yourself up.
Be selfish and don't worry about others. If it is later in the season then there is always the option to do a bit of double-backing for the guys at the front
Btw when I started riding this time last year I was only managing about 13.5 mph on many of my rides! You will be fine!
Good point about riding on your own - IMCH was my first ride on my own, and I did have a little bored lonely cry part way round!
Still hate riding on my own though, mainly due to a slightly irrational fear of being squashed by a lorry / attacked by a homicidal driver with no witnesses. Seriously.
Think before my second IM I managed one solo ride! It did help though.
From my point of view this is a fantastic thread Soup. Thanks for starting it!
Reading through its renewed my confidence again! I've posted a couple of times on the Fink thread about being a bit overwhelmed by the whole thing - it just seems like such a mammoth challenge - even when broken into the individual components!
I'm not training to be in the 16-17 hour time slot, but might end up there on the day. The comments about not focusing and training to avoid cut-offs were fantastic from people.
I can't remember who said it (read half this thread late last night, and just caught up with the rest just now) but also training to your limiters has really helped me. I'm still basing my training on the Fink plan, but have been doing an additional swim set each week. Looking at some times it looks like I've made some significant progress.
Now I'm turn my attention to getting more time in the saddle. Its really re-assuring to see people cycling at this point at a similar pace to myself! Its something I've been more than just worried about!
Whereabouts was this group ride? Might be nice to actually meet some people from the forum!
Hi all
I am the same I would like to think I could complete the Outlaw between 14/15 hours but I am too doubting myself my swimming is terrible in my eyes did 700 metres in 19 mins yesterday and that is the most i have done nonstop.
The one thing I have learnt over the years of running ultra events is take one day at a time dont look any further ahead that that day what with weather shifts and family life you can get too hooked up on whats in front of you and start to panic, I am no expert in triathlon and am very new to the game but I am at the moment following this line and try to feel good at the end of each day with what I have done and not what I havent because the worst thing you can do is try to make up for what you have not done that causes injury and ilness I know that from bitter experience, trust yourself and believe in yourself and you will succeed. I set myself a list of things I personally what to achieve before the day and as i do them tick them off for eg swim 2.5 miles, cycle 100 more than once, try all my kit out well before the day ans so on, I did this two years ago when I ran across the desert it gave me the confidence to know I can do these things, my body can cope, then all you have to do is put them together, may not work for everyone but it does for me.
I agree with alot said in this thread as I have proof over the things I have done it does work as alot have said stick to Z2 it does seem slow at first but you do get faster and quicker than you think, keep a diary it helps for the future because you can see where things really started to click.
good luck everyone no one on here will fail with all the support and advice from people who have done this before we will all succeed just beleive in yourself pick the bits that work for you and go for it.