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BERLIN Marathon 2012
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Feel much better after that, number 2 vertibrae out of sync, which was causing the problem, got to go back on Friday for another go.
Stefan/Johnas - Maybe I'm being a bit of a wuss but sub 2.55 sounds much better to me at the moment, I think we should pace that to 20 then see how we feel, that's if you are both up for that.
6.35- 6.40 should feel quite easy if the pair of you have been looking at sub 2.50
I've gone sub 2.55 a few times and there is a big difference going for a sub 2.50.
What do you think?
Welcome to the new people on the thread.
PS reading with amusement comments about heat elsewhere. No such problems here: 10 degrees and constant rain, which presents its own hazards!
ADG - are you sure it was that warm at the GSR?
Is this good news then Jonah? Sounds painful to me! Fixed with a bit of chiropractor magic?
I've been looking at some of my stats lately, and assessing how I've felt after a few of the Half Marathons and tempo/MP runs and think that, unless conditions on the day are absolutely perfect, then sub 2.55 is more realistic. i think i may need a few more marathons under my belt before sub 2.50 becomes more of a reality. I'm thinking a 6.35 m/m pace is a plan, at least up to 20 miles.
Strunner - That's great news! Looks like it was not just first for 3 weeks but a really good run/workout too... Well played mate!
Hi all, I've been lurking for weeks and decided finally time to post. Really excited about the marathon and relieved to have got my last long run done without any real problems, other then feeling completely shattered ever since but guess that's normal at this stage. I had a similar experience to Johnas last year after a long run- migraine, sickness, felt faint for about 8 hours afterwards and really not sure why as I didn't do anything differently other than run at a different time of day but it didn't do me any harm as I went on to run my fastest marathon a few weeks later.
I'm aiming for 3 hrs 40ish and have been doing a few MP runs of no more than 10 miles at 8.15 pace, but really not sure if I'm finding them easy enough to keep that pace up for another 16 miles. Has anyone got any advice on how easy these runs should feel? I've been doing my LSRs at 8.45-9 and that feels ok..
There are some awesome runners on here, would love to run as fast as a lot of you!
Cookie123 - MP runs in training are just horrible so don't worry too much about if you feel that way. There's very little to enjoy in them outside of a race! 10 mile MP runs are a really good effort and if you're managing to do them, as you seem to be even if you're finding yourself working hard, then you look well set provided your base mileage is sound. Your LSR pace looks good for an 8.15 race pace.
Kieran Alger 2 - have emailed you.
In Scottish terms, that's 'inhuman', perhaps even close to genocidal kinds of temperatures. I hope there was a slight westerly breeze on the day, you know, a typical 35 knots or so, nothing much, just to moderate the temperature extremes...
Seeing my first drops of rain today here in Belgium. My garden looks more like a sandy desert. Every time the dog chases a ball in the garden, great clouds of dust come up. Alas, it is the turn towards winter. I wonder what sort of Berlin we will find this year: Scorchio Berlin, or Deep weather depression Berlin? Somewhere in between would be nice
Thanks Baljc, feel a bit reassured!
8.15 for MP *sighing* if only.... In my dreams. Perhaps in the next life....
Johnas and Johna8, have you got Kenyan in you?
Welcome Cookie - thanks for words of confidence. Have put Sunday's melt down down to lack of fluids and heat exhuastion. As Baljc said earlier - better on Sunday than race day!
Hi dawsey - can't really comment as don't know what your training plan is like. Are you following any in particular? I know what works for me and that's lot of threshold running (either as intervals or tempo running). everyone is different though but if these aren't in your training plan, I would suggest giving them a go.
LeisaH - Is this where you ask us if we'd like some?!
Johnas- That's the best session I've had at the chiropractor, normally I feel as though I've been mugged because it costs £35 and you're out in 10 mins.
This time the new bloke, worked up from my lower back to the back of my neck( my spine made some strange noises!). My back feels the best in ages.
6.35 sounds like a plan, what's your Pb by the way?
Dawsy- How long have you been running?, how many marathons have you done?
Whats you HM Pb?
LeisaH- No, just an old Git
Johnas, Johna8 - which pen are you starting in? Sounds we'll be running at a similar pace so I'll look out for you to at least say hi.
baljc just picking up on MP pace a bit, is HRR% not something that should be factored in? My half mara pace is 8m15 per mile and i can run 13 miles at this pace but i cant do that for 26, i need to slow the pace down to be able to get thru 26 miles. the HRR% for a half mara is higher than you can sustain for the mara. I think i could aim for 8m45 per mile for Berlin and the difference allows for the plus 20 mile phase. My LSR pace is just over 9 min/mile...maybe i'm not being ambitious enough but would be interested in hearing more as I dont know how easy or accurate conversion of MP runs into the full race distance is. What kind of base mileage would you expect for 8m15/mile for the full mara?
Dawsey - my advice is if you want to go those speeds and you aren't ready for it now, then you can not be by this Berlin Marathon. So don't sweat it.
When it comes to marathon training and going faster there are effectively two simple rules to follow:
1) Your progress will be much more assured if you use a structured and balanced training schedule that covers the basic disciplines of running training, like speedwork, stamina building and recovery. Without letting people know what sort of stuff you are doing here, it's hard to say anything meaningful to help you out.
2) Your mileage base is the platform on which all other improvements are built. The bigger the platform, the higher the construction you can make upon it (in this case, outright speed).
Bottom line is, you can only jeopardise your performance in Berlin now by trying to do something you haven't done before. We are in the period where you need to get fresh and recovered, not inject even more fatigue into your body. But you can start to think about a plan of attack for a spring mara...
BB - interesting to mention HR and running times. The scientific way to get a better idea of what is the optimum speed you can run a marathon at, is to get yourself a Lactate Threshold test. This allows the plotting of a lactate profile against running speed and HR.
As Lactic Acid is the byproduct of burning glycogen - blood sugar - and oxygen, it is an indicator of your energy efficiency by heart rate. By estimating your weight, and calculating an energy plan for the race, they can give you an idea what 'fuel burn rate' you can sustain for the marathon - and equate this to a given hear rate.
BUT... there are so many other variables - e.g. high temps on the day affecting HR - or caffeine, or race-day adrenaline - that it is difficult to guage on the day. So in practice, you run loads of miles in training and get an idea of what HR corresponds with what pace and you use your intuition instead
Each race you do builds up the knowledge of how you perform. A friend of mine says that it took him about 15 maras to be able to decently predict what effort level he could optimally sustain.
Sorry if I just blathered on a bit then.....
I am hoping to do this race in 2013... when the application opens, can i apply on the normal website?
or do i need to go through this website ....
http://microsites.realbuzz.com/berlinmarathon/
(I click on the 'uk runners' button on the official berlin marathon website)
ta
You can click on the official web site. It's really easy and a joy compared to trying to get into London.
For the last two years I have missed the deadline for applying for London, it seems to expire in about half an hour and I remember to think about applying a couple of days afterwards
Happily i'm now officially GFA
and I am in without any lottery. Mind you it took me a club place and my 6th attempt at marathon distance to break sub 3:10.
Rest day for me today, tapering for the GNR. I feel I should be doing 10 miles but I am fighting the temptation.
Jonah8 & Johnas - You're on! A pace group of 4'05"/km (6'35"/mile) would be just perfect for me I think. I think at this point sub 2:50 pace is just a bit too sustained for me for comfort, even on a good day, and on a bad day it feels too close to half marathon effort for comfort. I've nailed marathon pace long runs at that pace during training but I think it would be wiser for me to stick with what the VDOT chart tells me -- which is dead-on 6'35"/mile pace. Will be very grateful to have company!!!
Dawsey- Have your marathon times come down slowly but surely?
I found just taking a few minutes off it each time perfect.
The first time I went sub 3 was from a 3.06 and a 1.26 half the previous year so come spring it shouldn't be a problem for you.
I PB'd at London when I was 48 so there's plenty of time for you.
I found the RW sub 3 schedule perfect for me because it tells you what times you should be achieving per run.
New York was a good run but that first mile is a killer.
Stefan- x post
Did a 12 mile tempo run tonight avg 6.45 with HR 143, so plenty in the tank.
I don't mind being the pacer as long as you can put up with me barking out the splits all the time.
BB - TD talks a lot of sense in what he has said. I use HRR as a training aid but only as a guide and only because on turning 45 a few months ago I had a sub-maximal fitness test testing my VO2 and lactate thresholds - that gave me accurate pace and heart rate zones for training. If you haven't had a 'test' then I wouldn't trust HRR based on an off the shelf internet based calculator solely using age as they have a margin of error of @ 10BPM i.e. a whole heart rate zone!
In terms of raceday I personally do not use HRR (turn off that function on my garmy) simply because of the extra adrenaline, conditions (heat especially) and a whole bunch of other things that could have the effect of raising HRR - the danger is you think your're working harder than you actually are and end up slowing when you don't need to or you spend too much sweating on the HRR readings. I'd rather use pace/splits as a guide in a race.
In terms of base mileage I would have thought most 18 week plans would have you running 800-850 miles (including the mara). I'll have run 850 come raceday and that's with a relatively slow start as I was recovering from Edinburgh for the first week or two.
Dawsey - funny, I did NY mara last year and HATED it! Unquestionably my worst mara experience from I think 7 different city races. Happy to have a GFA lined up for VLM next year but I am unsure whether I will continue to do maras from now on - Berlin is a bit of a test to see how my 'new' body copes with it all.
Did my first sub3 aged 42 and have repeated at 43 and 44. No need to panic that this opportunity is going away from you. The steady progressive build up of training mileage is they key factor.
Jonah - I think I went from a 3h12 to a 2h58 in a year. But that was set out with something like a 40% increase in training, so although an unusually big progression, it came at a price. Since then I've only managed to shave a couple of mins off at a time, with minimal increase in training mileage (although perhaps a little more intensity).
Which kind of leaves me in a strange place, not knowing where to go with my competitive desire. I can't run as much as I did, I think triathlon can be a lot of posing around, but I want to race... I'm sure the winter will give me lots to think about
So, who is still drinking booze then, this close to the race?
TD- I know what you mean a strange place.
I PB'd 7 London marathons on the trot, shaving minutes off each time but once I went sub 2.50 I doubt I will go sub 2.45.
Just going to see how long I can carry on doing alright times, once they stop maybe concentrate more on ultras.
No booze for me until after the race.
I'm also arriving on Thursday and hoping not to make the mistake I made for my first marathon (NYC) which was walking around for miles like a tourist wanting to see everything.
Not drinking but still eating far too much crap food. What is everyone eating? Carbs, carbs and more carbs? Dont want to gain any of the few pounds that I have managed to lose.
I've just seen Dredd 3D, been for a pint and now having a glass of red wine (good for the heart).
Yep, all gone south. But I've been off the sauce for months - and face it, a glass or two ain't going to matter just now. Guilt? Why?
I'm having a dry month too but it's more to do with trying to repair the damage of the summer holidays and reach a reasonable racing weight.
Normally I have a couple of beers on the Friday night before the Sunday marathon.
I'm not sure this year though I'll just have to play it by beer