Non- training related Outlaw Questions



  • Marmite has the salt in it too! 

    On food, I was most surprised to run out of salt the other week on a 70/7 bike/run brick at a steady pace. Don't neglect this part of your nutrition if you are prone to it. Especially in the summer. 

    One salt tab and I was fine but I had left them on the bike...

  • May I ask a question that I'm almost embarrased not to know the answer for:

    I understand the need for taking salt tablets, does Nuun have the necessary salts or should I also be considering separate salt intake?

  • Nuun has always served me very well before, but the other day, it just wasn't enough. Suppose the rule is then, stick them in your pocket, if you cramp even after nuun-ing, pop one salty down.
  • Feeding on the bike is sooo important to get right, you'll be burning energy at or in excess of 600 KCal per hour and you can only digest about 400 KCal per hour so it's important to get as much in as you can.

    As ever it boils down to personal taste, I know I don't run particularly well with a full stomach, so I'll have a couple of nakd/trek bars in the early hours of the bike (half a bar on 20 mins, gel at 40, rest of the bar at the hour) and then switch to gels only for the latter stages.  I'll be on the high-5 drink as well as fructose can be digested in parallel with the glucose, so another way to optimise the digestion. 

    One very important point (which bit me in the arse bigtime on my first race), practice your nutrition at race effort (at some point before the event).  The harder the effort the less blood you'll have going to your gut and the slower the digestion.

    Some people choose to put bulky food items into the special needs bag, I seem to remember Cap'n Candy was grateful for his pringles in Lanza.

  • Thanks Ferret.

    As you say - down to individual taste. However it looks like most people go for something every 20 minutes.

    A wibble from me. I'm training on a 11x27 cassette with a double chainset.

    For some reason I think I'll need a 28T at the back for Outlaw, but happily rode the Crease this week as is (though I did have to get out the saddle briefly on the hill after Puttenham). DB reckons that lump is equivalent to the hill on the Outlaw.

    Might come in useful for the Chiltern Hundred on t'other bike too...

  • Even I can get up Whitedown on a 27. Although I am compact front. But as you are twelve years old and 4 stone three, you get a few extra teeth at the front. ;O) (Ducks)
  • Cat
    Do you really need a multi tool?
    I carry 2 tubes, tyre leavers and either 2 co2 canisters/ c02 whooshie thing, or a small pump
    That's in a small saddle bag attached to a bontrager rear saddle mounted 2 bottle holder affair - cheap and plasticky but it works well
    I use a bike canister to hold my 2nd 3 hrs worth of nutrition

    I have used nuun in a bottle in a race.... Adding a tab to another bottle when it runs out is a pain
    Sports drink has some electrolytes in it but I sweat a lot....
    I ended up just using salt stick tablets every 90 mins to 2 hrs on hot races

  • Mini pork pies.........

    Multi tool.... When I got wiped out a couple of weeks back my handle bars got knocked out of line, No multi tool no carry on !!

    I also carry a dollar bill

  • Dollar bill - tyre boot?

    Very sturdy as currency. Waterproof and everyfing init!

  • Sorry, another numpty question from me about the bike leg image

    Drinks bottles. Do you refill your bottles at the bike feed station, or do you throw away the ones on your bike and replace them with the ones you are given, which would obviously be quicker?

    At the moment I've got two cages on my frame, I have one with water and one with diluted sports drink. I will need more fluids that that on the day.

    At moment I'm stopping and refilling my bottles with stuff from shop/garage, or water from public loos!! image

    If I'm going to throw them away, I need to make sure disposable bottles fit in my cages, and don't fall out/rattle around, and remember not to use my favorite bottles (yes I am that sad, I do have favorites!!)

  • bp - throw the old one, pick up a new one is the usual way.

    most races offer 500ml bottles, although a few offer larger, and they will fit standard cages. it's a good way of getting rid of some mankey olds bottle and picking up fresh ones.

    bike aid stations usually have a set disposal point just before you get to it
  • Nice n easy, plodder. There are no numpty questions. In summary, you throw away your empties and pick up nice new full ones.

    First bit of the aid station is designated for dropping your empties as you ride past. Then there will be some friendly people holding out full ones and shouting "water".... or "High 5".... or "Hurry The Fck Up... my arm's getting tired". So you roll past at a manageable pace without stopping, take a bottle or two. Next bit is similarly friendly people holding out food.

    Simples. But something in me expects there to be a follow-up question image

  •  Thanks.

    Can't think of a follow-up STIL, very thorough answer imageimage

  • I now have my mini-wing mounted on the back of the saddle, and have my spares kit in the storage bottle. Seems to hold tight over Berks' roughest roads. Tube bag that comes with mini-wing is small and useless. And because my saddle is quite forward it doesn't really fit. No dramas though.

    Speedfil has ben working well over the [ast couple of long rides too. Just need to work out where to stash the minin-pump. Probably gaffa tape it to the seatpost.

  • They've had the larger bottlesnat Outlaw for the last 2 years, whoch is OK as long as they fit in your bottle cages! If, like me, you have a smal frame and need to use a 500 ml bottle then just stop & fill the small bottle up!
  • Following on on the nutrition/hydration theme, can someone please explain to me the real world difference between 4:1 High 5, and 2:1.

    I have stayed away from High5 for no particular reason, but if it's what's available at Outlaw, then I'd be looking to use it rather than carry lbs of another brand. 

    Idiot question time:

    I have recently started, and am happy with dissolving Nuun citrous hydration tablets in my water.  I think I'll continue with that unless the Zero is available and does the same thing.

    Does High5 4:1 or 2:1 render the Nuun redundant, given that it is also mixed with water?  Which, if any, of the two might be available at Outlaw, and what benefit will I get from it.

    Does the High5 mix also take the place of the gels or does it compliment the gels?  How much would I be looking to drink (based on an average consumption) on top of my water or Nuun mixture.

    Do I drink water as well as the Nuun mixture or do I drop a tablet into every fresh bottle of water.

    I apologise for my ignorance, and I'm slightly embarrased for not knowing the (potentially) obvious answers to the above questions.  I would normally have googled the answer, but I would rather trust the first hand knowledge of people on here.   

    I'll pay respect to the modest summer warmth in Nottingham , and if I don't get my hydration correct that will be my deserved downfall.

  • Any High 5 mixture (IMO) will be well watered down

    I either use gels and water/nuun or sports drink and real food,  would never use sports drink and gels unless I studied the science more closely as its too many carbs

    Keep it simple .. image

  • That's the straightforward answer I was looking for, thankyou Meldy.

    Nuun/water + gels+ real food it is.  I can comfortably get round a 75 mile bike with a single bottle of water and a couple of gels, but have convinced myself I'll need to tow a bowser worth of food for July 1 image.

  • I would probably take a gel every 45 mins on a long bike and use nuun and water for ease

    Dont forget (well in my case) you are also fuelling for the run to come, dependant on what you use for that will also impact to a degree on bike nutrition, you may well need a couple on a 75mile ride but unless you know you can run a marathon as wellI would suggest perhaps a little strategy to gel taking (and fluid) is a good thing and a good way of passing the time !!

  • The High5 is Citrus 2:1.

    It's the same powder as you get on the shelf, but as Meldy says, it's watered down. I did find out at TCR the mixing ratio, but have forgotten it. My tub says 2 scoops per 500ml. I go for 2 scoops per 750ml.

    I need to read back to workout what the heck I'm supposed to be doing, so I can simulate it at Marshman. I guess I probably won't sleep after that as I'll over carb.

    And I found out yesterday my sweet limit is about 4 hours. I need savoury after that.

  • Last year I swapped to no gels after the bike and then did the run on cake and bananas and that worked for me and I actually slept that night as well which is something I hadnt managed to do before ...
  • Good nutrition debate.

     I used high 5  powder 4:1 yesterday on the bike and had GI murder on the run afterwards. It was a first time using 4:1 (bought in error) and it was the only thing different to anything previous (although for longer duration).

    That said, I dont understand  'why' as less carbs and some protein should have helped not hindered.

  • MT have you had GI issues before?

    I am relatively lucky I think and can seem to tolerate most stuff on the move and the only reason I am changing things on the run is that I really dont sleep the night after and coupled with the non sleeping the night before I tend to miss a lot of the Monday debriefs  image
  • I think the basic difference between the 4:1 and 2:1 is the carb/protein ratio and I think the 4:1 uses different source of carbs.  There's a full expanation on the High5 website.

    I've used a weak 2:1 mix plus High5 isotonic gels with no problems, plus the occasional nuun/zero if it's hot.  The nuun/zero provide no carbs, just electrolytes.  I've tried the 4:1 but it seems to give me minor GI issues.

    Generally I set my watch to beep every 20mins or so and alternate gels/solid food/sportsdrink; sip on water as required in between times.

  • I've probably got enough numpty questions to ask one a week for the next 10 weeks, so here comes the first I guess!

    From pool based times, I'm looking to swim around 1h30m on the day. Am I right in thinking that there are 3 swim pens - 1 for those stupidly fast people, 1 for sub 1hr30 and another for over 1hr30?

    Judging by my time estimate, which pen should I be heading towards? Any advice gratefully received!

    PS. I'm slightly hopeful that my wetsuit might speed me up a little, but on last years evidence this is unlikely!
  • Yes, they had pens but with so many more entrants this year they may organise things differently. I wouldn't worry about it until nearer the time, to be honest.

    It was all a bit random last year anyway. Some of the slower folks went to the back of pen 1 rather than the front of pen 3 (the pens were alongside each other with pen 1 closest to the side of the lake).
  • I was thinking along the similar lines but a little different time. Are you better being near the back of a faster group and hope to draft off some faster swimmers or at the front of a slower group?
  • I've a question for the people who've done it before.................

    How congested does the path along the river get during the marathon, is it easy enough to pass other runners and will an extra 300+ runners make it overcrowded?  I know not everyone is on it all at the same time but there must be a point where it is at it's busiest.


  • Hard to say. They try & merge the 3 groups fairly quickly after the start so you're more likely to find yourself among faster swimmers with all the biff that goes with that if you start at the front of a slower pen than if you start further back. On the other hand, you won't have the delay at the start waiting for everyone else to get going. If you're a confident OW swimmer, start near the front, if you're less sure of things start further back.
  • It's pretty narrow in places marshallini, and obviously there's folks going both ways. Plus it's not actually closed to the public. Overtaking means keeping an eye out for someone about to overtake coming the other way!
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