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Ask the Experts: Taper and Race Week Q&A with Sam Murphy
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ASICS Target 26.2 coach Sam Murphy will be online between 1pm and 2pm today to answer your questions about the final phase of marathon training, the taper and race day itself. Whether you're worrying about what training to do in taper, or trying to put together the perfect pace plan for your race, Sam's here to help.
Sam is one of the UK's leading fitness experts, and a keen runner. She has completed 15 marathons (with a PB of 3:22) and the Himalayan 100 Mile Race among numerous others.
In addition to her first class degree in Sport and Exercise Science, Sam is a level 2 UKA running coach and a tutor for England Athletics. She has also written seven books which have been published internationally, including Run for Life: The Real Woman's Guide to Running, and Marathon and Half Marathon: From Start to Finish.
We're opening the discussion now so Sam will be able to get stuck in straight away at 1pm (rather than having to deal with too many questions all at once). That's enough from me - time to get posting!
Alice
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
My hamstrings are feeling a little tight after a hard run in the wilmslow Half-marathon at the weekend, and of course some extensive training. What would you recommend in the last 3 weeks to loosen them? I've booked in a physio appointment for some deep tissue massage, but not sure what I should do in terms of running and/or other exercise.
Hi Sam!
I'm trying to get fixed in my head an easy to remember formula for how close to a marathon you should / not race. My initial understanding is that anything within the last month of training should be pace practice or less only - is that about right?
Most guides cutting the mileage back 75% in 1st week of taper, 50% in 2nd week and 25% in 3rd week (or thereabouts). Is this the advise you would give? I have heard eslewhere people advocating 50% in 1st week, 75% in 2nd week and 25% in 3rd week - reason being 1st week allows a lot of recovery, 2nd week you ramp it up a bit to stop getting stale, then 3rd week is major recovery time. What do you think?
I've been following the sub-4:30 plan for the VLM (my first marathon) and it's going pretty well so far. I've been running my mid week runs of between 5-7 miles comfortably at 8:30-8:45 pace and my long runs (14, 16, 18.5 and 20 miles) at between 9:00-9:30 pace. Would you recommend that I drop down to 10:00 mile pace for the marathon itself so that I have some energy left for the last six miles, or do you think I should feel fresh enough from the taper to be able to go a little faster?
Thanks very much in advance for your help!
Katy
Hi Sam,
Had a bit of a nightmare training for the Paris marathon, antrior knee pain and 4 weeks of physio knocked out my month of high distance traning and only ow getting back into the swing of it. With 2 weeks left to go I have completed an 20 mile run at low pace but can't do any speed work and now I'm struggling with some minor hip flexor pain.
What would be your advice for the next two weeks to make sure I get to the start and finish line in one piece?
Thank you,
Christine
Dan, hopefully the taper will help ease out your hamstrings a bit, with reduced volume of training allowing more recovery and rest. The deep tissue massage sounds ideal – might be good to do a couple of those (but not too close to race day). Make sure you stretch your lower back too – hamstring tightness is often accompanied by/related to lower back tightness. Finally, recommend stretching your hamstrings with the leg both bent and then straight. I find that a slightly bent knee helps get to the belly of the muscle, rather than just pulling on the attachment points.
Last year I did my first (and only) marathon in Nottingham. Training went okay, just a few niggles here and there but I did find that my long runs over 18 miles on Sunday's were getting harder each week, to the point I was barely running the last couple of miles. I thought that like my first half marathons that the taper would help refresh me when the big day came.
I read lots of advise on the forums and RW about keeping an even pace in the marathon. I was aiming for 3hr 45 and used the Ultimate Training Plan, with my PB at the time for the half marathon was 1hr 41.
With this in mind, I set out quite slow (9 minute miles for the first two miles) and progressed to between 8m/mile to 8:30m/mile depending going up or down hill. I hit halfway at 1 hr 50, but something very strange happened that has never happened before, and I got strange cramps in my feet at mile 14 - which was very early. I stretched these out but could not regain any decent pace. By mile 18 I was at 10min/mile and by 20mile I had to start a walk/run strategy to get me to the end in 4 hours 24. I was gutted to say the least.
I drank mainly water but did have some Lucozade at the first two stations (miles 3 & 6) but I found the taste not to my liking (I used Powerade in training) and used gels instead with water.
Do I accept that I am not a full marathon runner & stick to Halfs (which I improved to 1hr39 6 weeks after the Notts marathon), or is there something I could be doing differently?
(Sorry for the long drawn out question!!)
Thanks
Craig
Hi 15 West, the annoying hting about tapers is that different things work for different people - so it is a bit of a matter of trial and error. Studies have found benefits with a reduced volume of anywhere from 30 to 90 per cent of peak mileage! If you want a guideline for a 3-week taper, I would recommend cutting volume by around a third of your peak mileage the first week, to a half of peak mileage in the second week and cutting that in half again on the final week. Doing it bit by bit like this is called a stepped taper – some people prefer to just cut volume by, say, 30% and remain there for the duration of the taper. I am not convinced by the other strategy you mention with the middle week’s mileage going up again!
I would recommend setting your goal race pace a little slower than your training run pace – perhaps between 9.45-10 min miling. Have you done any half marathons or other longish races which you can use to get a marathon time prediction? If so, I’d also factor this information in when determining the right pace to run on the day. It’s also worth pointing out that if you start out comfortably, you always have the option of speeding up later on in the race if you still feel good. If you start out at your 9-9.30 pace, then you risk blowing up and having to slow down in the second half which is demoralizing and tough work. Good luck!
A lot of info around about tapering and cutting the long run but I'm assuming you need to keep some speed sessions to maintain cardiovascular fitness? Do you just to them for less or should most sessions now be practicing marathon pace?
I know frompast experience when I've had to stop running because of injury in a couple of weeks my fitness levels drop quite quickly, what's the best way of maintaining these while allowing good recovery and reducing injury risk?
Thank you!
Hi Christine
Sorry to hear about your marathon training troubles... I think your strategy now depends a little on what you want to achieve out your marathon. If you just want to 'get round', then I'd recommend using a walk-run strategy with a fixed time period. For example, it could be walking for 3 minutes after every mile marker, or walking for the last 2 minutes of every 10 minutes. You would do this right from the beginning - not just when you feel knackered
If you're still concerned about getting a specific time, then I'd consider withdrawing and doing a race later in the season when you have more opportunity to train without being hampered by injury. It's an awful situation to be in (I've been there - twice!) but so is running through pain and discomfort and then ending up not being able to run for weeks afterwards.
Assuming you do decide to run, I'd just maintain low volume, easy-paced training over the final two weeks. Even though training hasn't gone to plan, you still need to taper - any training sessions you do now won't actually improve your fitness they'll just maintain it, so don't try to make up for lost time. Best of luck.
I'm running the London Marathon next month (it's my first marathon) and I'm worried about how much to taper my training in the remaining three weeks.
I've had a mixed period of training. I've been running 3/4 times a week since January and am of reasonably good fitness generally.
During my training I sustained a stress fracture to my foot and had to take two weeks off. Because of that break I fell behind with my long runs and the furthest I've managed in training since is 18 miles.
Is is worth just carrying on training to get up to the full distance or should I taper to save my legs for the day?
Thanks for any help!
Andy
Hi Sam,
Normally I attend a club session each Wednesday which involves some form of intervals.
Would you recommend on the final week before the Marathon to still do the intervals but treat as a tempo run or ignore all together and just do an easy run?
I'm looking for a time of 2hr 55 mins so don't want to ruin my chances especially as Sunday just gone I ran a half marathon in 1hr 24 mins so feel confident and right on track.
Also do my times appear to be on course?
Thanks,
Steven
Hi Sam,
Unfortunately I have been suffering with a tender achilles and I haven't been able to run for the last 3 weeks. Prior to my achilles flaring up my training had been going ok and I had completed a couple of 20 mile training runs which had gone to plan. My achilles has started to settle and I hope to be able to run again next week and planned to try a 20 miler next Sunday, two weeks before VLM. My concern is that I may have lost crucial strength and fitness, I have been able to cross train with spin classes and mountain biking but my lack of running is a concern to me.
Would you have any advice or guidance for me.
Thank you for your help.
Rob
Thank you Sam, much appreciated. I am commited to at least attempting to get round but have quite sensibly thrown my time goal out the window (pace bands and watches will be left at home!!)
Low volume, easy pace - sounds good to me
Thanks again.
Hi Craig
No I certainly wouldn't rule out another marathon based on your previous experience! A few thoughts:
The number of long long runs you did. In my experience as a coach and runner who isn't knocking out sub 2.45 marathons, doing a long run every wekeend is too much. I find it just accummulates fatigue and it sounds as if this was your experience. So instead of getting the benefits of improved fitness and stamina from your long runs, you were just getting increasingly fatigued and exhausted, week on week and weren't really repaing the benefits of your training. I'd also be interested to know what pace you did the long runs at - it may have been a bit too fast.
As far as the race is concerned - you could well have hit the start line not fully recovered from training (there are some pretty long runs in that taper, I think!) And also, hitting 8 min miles in the first half was a bit too quick - sub 3.30 pace - and you just can't afford to go too quick in the first half of a marathon. I wouldn't get too concerned about the drinking/carbs issue - as long as you were getting some carbs and fluid on board regularly, it's unlikely this had anyting to do with your feet cramps - (not much evidence to link dehydration with muscle cramp - only anecdotal) I would guess it was just a 'weak link' in your chain as fatigue started to set in.
So lots to think about - and onwards and upwards for the next one!
Hi Sam,
I did my longest run at the weekend and am now going to taper my runs. I was in some pain (as I usually am after a long run) after the weekend around my feet and lower legs (I have weak knees and I suspect my shoelaces were too tight).. I was considering doing only a very low amount of running over the next 2-3 weeks so as to rest my legs and not reaggravate the pain before my marathon. What do you think would be the negative impacts of doing this? What else would you recommend instead?
Am running Brighton in under 3 weeks, but have had some niggling shin pain last few weeks. I think its partly because I had to change my running shoes in January due to the "old" model I was comfortable with being no longer available and the updated model of the same shoe didn't feel right for me when I tried it. I have just found a much more comfortable pair to run in (same brand as previous favourites) but am wondering if it is too close to marathon to change. I should still get 50+ miles in them before the marathon if I make a wholesale change. Any thoughts?
p.s. really enjoyed your co-authored book with Sarah Connors "Running Well", and found it very useful when I got back into running after a 7.5 year enforced lay-off. Thanks!
Andy, I am glad you have asked me this so I can save you trying to kill yourself before race day! Nope, do not try to carry on to full distance. You've done a great job of getting to 18 miles, despite the injury, so one final long run (you could repeat 18 miles, or go a bit less... ) this weekend and then you begin your taper.
A couple of caveats: If you did the 18 miles ages ago, then I'd make this wkd's long run less than 18.
Are you sure your foot is now OK? two weeks is not long for a stress fracture to heal.
Doing it for charity, so it got to the point where I had too much money pledged to pull out and disappoint people - so I just powered through on a sore foot.
It's not fully healed, but it's giving me a lot less grief than when I first did the injury.
I'll do another 18 mile run this weekend then - and then reduce over the next few weeks.
Thanks for your advice!
Hi Steven, I think the wisest course of action would be to give it a miss - easy run followed by a few strides. The trouble is, if it's a group/club session where you normally train hard, you might be tempted (or even unwittingly) go a bit faster than you meant to. And as I said to Susie, I wouldn't do anything faster than tempo beyond the final Tuesday before a Sunday marathon.
In terms of your times, my charts predict that a 1.24 half marathon is SPOT ON for a 2.55 - so sounds like you've got the training right and it isn't worth jeapordizing for the sake of hitting the track. Best of luck!
Thanks for your response. It's been niggling me as to why it went so wrong!
Looking over my notes and Garmin, I did reduce some miles from the schedule from week 12 (Wed run from 7m to 6m and long run 21m to 20m), week 13 long run 20m to 17.5m, Week 14 long 18m to 12m (as I was feeling wiped out at that point... hmm) and week 15 long run 12m to 10m.
My long run average paces were:
18m 9:18m
15m 9:03m (I dropped down due to a slight niggle in my knee that week)
18m 8:58m
20m 9:27m
20m 9:36m
17.5m 9:45m
I think looking back at that, I should have taken a recovery week on the second 20mile run, replaced 17.5m with a 20m, then tapered!
I ran the race with a workmate who is slightly slower than me for half marathons and he left me at halfway (finishing at 3hr 48 - but he didn't follow any sort of conventional training programme and trained by mainly running to-and-from work 8 miles each way and the occasional LSR; he did one 18m and one 20m and a couple of 15m), that's why the pacing didn't concern me as much. This is my garmin http://connect.garmin.com/activity/113544216 - not pretty reading, and I didn't set off as slow as I thought/planned!
Thanks again,
Craig
I'm runnng my first marathon and am experiencing some knee pain after the 20 mile run I did last Sunday. What would be your advice for the taper? Should I miss some runs?
You've probably held on to a lot of your fitness with the Spin and mountain biking. I'd recommend keeping that up rather than suddenly plunging back into running 4-5 times a week to help increase your chances of the Achilles staying settled. Wish you luck...
A question about pace on the race day, and what final time to target.
I did a half last year with minimal training that indicates a marathon time of 4.15.
Since then i jogged along at 15 miles/week for a few months then started the "ideal world level 2" programme from your "start to finish" book, Its going really well, i feel really fit (pulse 47!) and I can easily do 6 or more 8 min miles in my midweek runs,
no injuries, no stiffness, all great. feel great.
a lot of me want to to try to break 4 hours but the quality of my previous long runs really worries me,
I ran 20 miles last sunday and 20 miles the sunday before both at 10min pace and felt that was all I had, it was quite hard going. although again, completely recovered and no stiffness the next day as if i hadn't even done it!
So im a bit confused
am i just not a long distance runner?
i don't use gels or special drinks as i don't like them i drink water and eat chocolate.
have i overtrained
will the taper enable me to beat 4hours?
Can you advise on a goal to aim for
and a pace strategy please
Thanks very much
Christian