Can I run 10k in 40 minutes with this training schedule?

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  • To get under 45 for me seemed to take ages then sub 40 seemed to take even longer. My latest pb was 36 something. I don't speed train or do reps etc. I run as fast as i feel i can run every time. I love running with an extreme passion but hate structured training. Perhaps if i did 5 times this with such and such recovery. I might achieve sub 35 but it would take the pure enjoyment away. best thing i found was ditch the watch race day, and simply believe in your ability. And always race to win. Trust me everyone is more capable than they think.
  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭
    Iwan, Reading your original posts reminded me of where I started out. I used to play football and 5 a side most nights but also used to run there and back to keep fit. I had no idea of what mileage I was doing per week and had never done a structured session in my life.



    When not playing football I used to run a rough 10km loop from my house as hard as I could every time. If I was tired I eased back. I also coupled that with a 10 mile run every now and again. I noticed my 10km pace might be around the 36 min mark so entered my first race this year. I ran 36.16 then in my next race I ran 34.47 and have since ran a 16.33 5km. All were run using the same method as moor man - running hard!



    I've since joined a club and have been doing structured sessions, but ive been training for a marathon. Once that is over with I'm looking forward to seeing if there is going to be a significant improvement in my times with doing the structured training.



    You're times have significantly improved so it's obviously working for you!
  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭
    Your #
  • Cicero that's a shame that the injury affected you for so long, I think until you've had a serious injury you think you're invincible! I've found that a foam roller is very effective for ITB pain.



    YP I think that's probably a more sensible target for the half and it could be a painful last few miles going for 1:28!



    MM and Matt I think I'm completely the opposite of you guys in terms of training in that I like to know my exact times and splits and which workouts I've got coming up. I think there's loads of different ways to get to the same place.



    Matt what time you going for in the marathon? I was thinking of joining a club as well but was considering waiting until I get a bit quicker and maybe of some use to them!
  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭
    I'm aiming for sub 3 hours at Chester. My original aim was to get as near to 2.50 as possible. I've not been able to run since last Sunday due to an injury though so I'm getting worried. If I'm not right by next weekend I'll be doing Liverpool marathon which is the week after. (I've already entered both. I entered Liverpool first then found out Chester was the flatter course so that became my first choice)



    If I'm not fit in time for that I'm hoping Ill be in some sort of shape to attempt a sub 3 at Preston marathon at the end of October. I'm currently just doing 20 miles a day on a spinning bike to try to keep ticking over. Albeit in under an hour so I'm still pushing hard.
  • Thanks Iwan re ITB. After HM breakdown in 2010 I had physio and then orthotics fitted and now that I'm back to running they seem to be doing the job. And yes, I remember the joy of foam roller as part of physio recovery! Gradually tapering up my long easy run and zero symptoms so far. Up to 15k at the moment so will be considering HM again soon. My one successful HM was Bournemouth which I'd recommend. All being well I'll run it next year.

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭
    I missed the last bit of you're earlier post Iwan. I'd definitely recommend joining a club. There's all abilities at every club and nobody gets judged. I've learnt a lot in the short time I've been going by getting advice off people who have ran and trained for years.



    I'd highly recommend it.
  • Mattl that's a pretty tough target for the marathon, hope you're ready for either Chester or Liverpool.



    Cicero, I find the foam roller a bit of a chore but if I go a couple of weeks without using it the ITB comes back! Might consider Bournemouth then, when is that one?



    My best training week so far this week, 43 miles done after last weekend's 10k. Just need to extend my long run from the current 11 miles I think, just find it boring running so far at one pace so am going to try and experiment with some marathon pace miles going forward.
  • Iwan Bournemouth HM is usually last weekend in March I think.

    I like that we all have our own way of doing things and that whilst some may be radically different from our own - moor man and mattl - we still take an interest in how the other half runs ...

    I think that actually pretty much any approach "works" until you approach your own potential best. For example no matter what training plan I formulate I know that losing another 3kg would probably be the simplest first step - I'm 5' 10" and currently at 73kg having restarted running at about 80kg. Certainly moor man and mattl's "running hard" approach would have ensured I lost the kgs more quickly I think. As you approach your potential I think that the 'science' of a good programme can really help. But, at my level, I really I think I just find the process of considering my plan and executing it motivating just as moor man and mattl have found running hard to be thing that keeps them going ...

    So, anyway, new parkrun PB of 20:46 at the weekend. Was aiming for 20:20, but accidentally left my (footpod based) watch calibrated for an "easy run" rather than "race pace" and so was over-recording my speed and distance. Watch read 5.31km at the end. That extra 0.31km took me just over a minute image Dulwich parkrun is flat and 3 laps so by the time I heard the first time call (13:55 after 2 laps) it was too late to correct.

    My highest total too this week. But 36.5km / 22.6 miles including all events, not quite in your league yet people!

    Also I've just started a running technique course at www.runningschool.co.uk (East Dulwich) which is proving really interesting. Will see how that combines with my continued running and weight loss ...

  • I've got the Great Langdale road Marathon this sat and am hoping for somewhere near 3hrs (although I believe there is something like 3000ft of total ascent and it's my first marathon image )

    mattl, I think we're in the same running club. remember having the same conversation with a Matt (I'm Bret) about running hard at the end of a tuesday session up in Worsthorne?

    Iwan, I find my weight tends to be good around 10st 2 I'm 5ft 8. though my weight can fluctate between 9st 13 and unfortunately at the moment 10st 6, would've preferred to be a bit lighter for the Marathon, especially as I'll gain weight carb loading at the end of the week.

    2 years ago I had an achilles injury which stopped me running for a few months in which time I spent 4 days a week doing a 10k session on a concept 2 rowing machine (around 40 mins) when I got back to running my times had come down quite a lot. after the marathon this weekend I'm going to start the rower again ready for xcountry. I've also been running every day so far this year which also seems to have helped with times, probably because of conditioning with the legs.

  • It's interesting that you talk about weight as I believe that's my main issue at the moment.

    Since I used to swim and did a bit of weight training over a few years before I started running again this year I am carrying a bit more upper body muscle than ideal, not to mention  some excess fat from 7 years of limited aerobic training.

    As a result, when I started running in April I weight 13st (6ft tall) which is way too heavy. Last time I weighed myself a month ago I was still at around 12st 10.

    I have read that if I lost a stone and a half, which would take me down to a reasonable 11 and a half stone, it could be worth as much as 3 minutes over a 10k so I guess I just need to eat less!

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭
    Moor man - its a bloody small world! Haha. Good luck with the great langdale!
  • New parkrun best of 20:27 on Saturday equalling my 2006 5k PB. [Albeit that before starting parkrunning in August this year that was my only previous timed 5k.]

    This coming weekend is the first 10k race of the two mentioned previously - at Dartford Bridge. Starting out at 42:30 pace and seeing how it goes. Still midway through my Running School course and not yet transitioned to new techqnique (still need to develop hamstring and glute strength) so will be attempting technique in final kilometre or two if I'm feeling good. That may lead to nice fast finish. Only the splits will tell ...

  • Good luck with that Cicero, sounds like a sensible target based on the parkrun time.

    I really struggled with the last kilometre in my 10k, coming in a good 5 seconds slower than the rest. I've also been struggling to muster a proper sprint finish in the parkruns. I'm hoping as i get fitter it'll return!

    Training has felt significantly better since the 10k though and I got my long run up to 13 miles this week in 1:42 (10 easy @ 8-8:15, 3 MP @7:08). It felt pretty comfortable other than a few aches towards the end. Therefore hoping 1:28 is within reach.

  • Dartford Bridge 10k went well today. Happy with finish time of 42:00 by my watch TBC by official results. Split times of 4:13, 4:13, 4:08, 4:09, 4:20, 4:17, 4:12, 4:11, 4:12, 4:05 are a bit erratic. Essentially I got carried away in k3 & k4 when I should have stuck to the 4:13s I'd started with and sped up more gently from there.

    Good step towards November PB attempt though. I shall be focussing on weekly long easy runs and regular hard tempo runs as well as concluding my Running School course in the meantime. Hopefully that'll put me in a good place.

    [Iwan, you seem to have been on a long easy 13 mile run in just 4 minutes more than my HM PBimage ]

  • Some good training going on here by the sounds of it.



    I decided to ditch my attempt at sub-40 for a 10k this weekend, as I've decided my main target is a sub 90 minutes half in November.



    This is therefore the focus for now, but hopefully (assuming I achieve my goal) it should mean that in December I can knock out a sub-40 10k...image



    Iwan - I also did 13 miles on Sunday, with 10m @ 07:12 avg.
  • "interesting" stats:

    5k in 20 mins - (male) WR is 63.11% of 20 mins

    10k in 40 mins - (male) WR is 65.75% of 40 mins

    HM in 1:30 mins - (male) WR is 64.87% of 1:30 mins

    So, by that analysis, the 10k in 40 mins is the hardest of the three targets to achieve.

  • Or, put another way:

    5k in 20 mins = 10k in 41:40 = HM in 1:32:30 (WR is 63.11% of each)

    5k in 19:12 = 10k in 40 mins = HM in 1:28:48 (WR is 65.75% of each)

    5k in 19:27 = 10k in 40:33 = HM in 1:30 mins (WR is 64.87% of each)

     image
  • Cicero, I would say that those are reasonably consistent splits on that 10k and the changes could well be due to slight elevation changes or headwind that you hardly noticed. As long as you keep the training in there, with some good tempo's  I'm sure you'll be quicker next time.Plus, your HM will be much quicker next time you have a crack at it!

    YP, that is a pretty swift long run there, I'd say you should be in pretty good shape to achieve both your goals. Just need  to hope the weather stays calm for November and December PB attempts I guess.

    I'm doing a 10miler tonight with 7 @ HM Pace of 6:45ish. This will be as far as I go @ HMP in training and if I manage it comfortably enough 7 weeks out I would hope that a sub 1:28 could be on the cards.

  • Yay! Another parkrun 5k best at Dulwich this morning - 20:12.

  • Well done Cicero, times are coming down quickly, sub 40 on the way soon!

    I've had my best training week to date this week, 51 miles in total including 7 mile tempo run at 6:46, 8 x 800m (90sec rest) @ 2:56 average and a 14 mile long run (longest ever).

    Cant wait for the next race!

     

  • Taking a break from parkrun this morning. My youngest daughter has tonsilitis and so have had quite poor sleep in the last few days. Also I have tonsilitis too which isn't as debilitating as it is for my daughter, but I don't think there's a PB to be had.

    In the meantime my sister - iklebutn on this forum - found an interesting article about 10k training: http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/10k-training-512 

    It seems to confirm both the "run hard" approach espoused by moorman and mattl in a "training plan" format with that appeals to Iwan, myself etc. It reads like good sense to me.

     

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭
    That's an interesting read.



    The sessions in there ( 400m reps etc ) are what I had started to do with the running club prior to getting injured. Over the last week or so I've been on a treadmill trying to test out my foot, get some miles in and I've found myself running 5 miles hard a couple of times and then on Sunday and tonight I've ran two 10kms in 35.40.



    I do find it difficult not to push myself when running as I feel I'm not getting the full benefit if I don't give it my all. Probably the reason why I missed my marathon and I'm hopefully looking at getting back to doing some proper structured training with people who have the experience to tell me what's what.
  • Hi, Interesting thread - thought I'd give up posting facetious/sarcastic comments on the chat threads and actually try discussing running for a change.

    Hopefully I'm not flattering myself too much when I say you seem to be around my level.  Been running since the begining of the year and currently average around 20-25mpw. pbs are HM - 1:35:50, 10k - 44:44 (though I I have done a 6miler in 42:09) and 5k - 20:12 so I have the same short to mid goals of 20min 5k, 40 min 10k and 1:30 HM.

    I'm think I'm still on the upward curve of a beginner where every race is a pb so expect that the 5k goal will come in the next parkrun, bu anticipate that the others might take a bit more work.

    I'm currently focusing on my 5&10k times and my programme includes at least one lunchtime  speed session per week which typically comprises one of the following: 3M tempo, 3x1M, 6x800m, 10x400m, or 2x2M.  Paces are taken from Mcmillian based on the 5k time so they are quite a bit faster than what I was doing during HM training. Really enjoying pushing myself though just need to find some convenient races in the near future.  All the local ones seem to be non-standard distances.

  • Hi Lou,

    Yes it's a good phase to be in when you are still pb'ing every race, I think I have a few more months of tha as well before the real hard work starts!

    I would definitely say you have a bit to come off that 10k pb judged on the 5k and 6 milers. I'd say that at our level just increasing mileage seems to make a huge difference with the speedwork just adding a bit of variety.

    Those speed sessions seem about right, similar to what I have been doing, although I've added some longer 6/7m tempos recently in preparation for my upcoming half marathon.

    Good luck,  and let us know when you go sub 20 at the next parkrun!

  • Hey all,

    Just thought I'd pop up also to say that this thread's been really useful. I'm working towards a sub 40 10k attempt (currently 42.30) on the 10th of November at the moment.

    I organise my weekly runs around:

    One speed intervals session, which is gradually improving and was 10 mins warm up followed by 8 x 400m @ 3.55 m/k with 2 minute recoveries.

    A 9/10k tempo run @4.10 - 4.20 m/k

    The local parkrun (pb currently 20.03)

    And, a long run on Sunday of about 16km

    I'll do easy runs once, or maybe twice around this core schedule through the week, but maybe I should cross train one day?

    Good to hear from folks aiming for similar targets, and getting there. Any advice would be greatfully received.

     

    Stuart

     

     

     

  • Iwan Jones 4 wrote (see)

    Hi Lou,

    Yes it's a good phase to be in when you are still pb'ing every race, I think I have a few more months of tha as well before the real hard work starts!

    I would definitely say you have a bit to come off that 10k pb judged on the 5k and 6 milers. I'd say that at our level just increasing mileage seems to make a huge difference with the speedwork just adding a bit of variety.

    Those speed sessions seem about right, similar to what I have been doing, although I've added some longer 6/7m tempos recently in preparation for my upcoming half marathon.

    Good luck,  and let us know when you go sub 20 at the next parkrun!

    The 10k time is early summer when I first started training 'properly' the others were all done towards the end/following a 30-40mpw HM programme so definite improvement based almost solely on mileage. 

    I might have a crack at 5k tomorrow - have to check with Ms D first though to make sure we don't have anything planned.

    Interesting to see the various preferences between miles/kilometers.  I started off in km, but switched to miles recently as that seemed to be what runners did.  I am tempted to think that km is easier though.

  • Welcome Chucter,

    Again I'd say your 10k time is also due an improvement based on the 5k time.

    However, I reckon you may just want to add a bit more distance to your interval lengths and your long run.

    For the intervals you may want to try either reducing the rest period/adding some reps to your 400 sessions gradually or try something like  4 x 800m/1,000m with 90seconds rest. This should get you used to running further at quicker than race pace. 

    Also, adding a couple of miles to your long runs would be useful maybe up to 12.

    Your tempo run seems very tough based on a 42:30pb. I'd say if you can manage 9/10k at 4:10/km then you are pretty much in sub 40 minute 10k shape. If it's comfortable enough and not hindering your other sessions then keep it up until your 10k. Otherwise, you may want to slow it down a bit.

    Lou, that's simple, tell Ms D that YOU have a 5k planned!

    I don't know what it is about km/miles either as I was orignially a km man and have recently converted.

     

     

  • Cheers for that Iwan.

    I was afraid you were going to say that about the intervals - they're the toughest session I find, but it's worth the effort. I usually do these on a treadmill cause I can't find an accessible outdoor track and i like the precise measurements. I think I'll up the distance next time.

    I enjoy the long runs more, so 2 miles extra there sounds great.

    Was able to run 19.26 for this morning's parkrun but maintaining that kind of pace for double the distance will be tricky...

    I just prefer thinking in km as it's easier to work out 5k/10k times etc from paces. Might switch if I ever branch out into marathon territory though, maybe 26miles is less scary than 42km?

     

  • That's a good parkrun time there Chucter, pb I assume?

    I'd say you're nearly there for a 40 minute 10k based on 19:26 for a 5k. I ran 39:49 a week after a 19:10 so you're there or thereabouts.

    I reckon that slightly longer intervals with shorter rest along with a few more miles on the long run, will definitely help in converting a 5k time into a 10k.

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