Auviour Paris: So long and thanks for the cobbles



  • mcs - well done getting out in the snow!

    BoD - glad things are on the up.  Don't rush things, though.  Injury nightmare describes a normal marathon training cycle image  

    Mike - that's very interesting reading.  Are you now adjusting your P&D pacing strategy accordingly?  It'll be interesting to see how it all translates into improved training and (more importantly) race times.  Good luck.

    Easy five miles on the treadie for me tonight.  Though, perhaps not easy enough given Mike's new pacing.  Weather forecast doesn't fill me with joy.  Just as I was getting out more often, I get forced back indoors again! image  It's too icy to take a chance with aggravating my knee.

  • Thanks Ten - I'll keep you posted.

    Today I ran 8.5m at dawn and HR avg at 120bpm. Pace was 9:22 m/mile for that.....obviously way better than my Himalayan expedition at the w/e.

  • Morning all!

    AC8 - sorry I forgot to answer your question about mileage logging!  Go to runBritain and then scroll right down to the bottom of your profile page where you'll see a graph.  On the right hand side you'll see an 'Update Training' link.  Click on it and fill in... simples image (If you can't see the Update text - double check that you're logged in!

    Can't remember where I got it from - but somewhere I read a nice HR analogy: - if you're not efficient at the bottom of the hill; how in hell do you hope to be efficient at the top!  I know it worked for me back in my cycling days when monitors had just appeared - I still remember very vividly coming back from uni and going out on a club run and one of the guys muttering  " I want to know what training she's been doing" as I cruised up a hill - chatting! It does work - I totally believe that - but you do have to be patient!

    Turbo sesh for me today - freezing fog here too!  I'm sure it can't be good for you to breathe it in!  I don't know why - maybe my imagination is just too vivid after seeing what it does to your eyebrows, never mind your insides - brrrrrrrrrrrrrr

    Glad you're feeling better Bo - take it easy for a bit longer yet eh!

    Keep safe and warm everyone! image


  • Well, got up this morning with the intention of going for a jog around the block, maybe a mile or two... Nope, leg went again as I got out of bed... image

    I've joined a budget gym, so hoping to get some on impact cardio going on (just got to wait till the end of the month). Checked with my local pool, looks like aqua jogging might be the way forwards.

    Mike: that analysis looks really good. There is a local place here that does them, might not be as comprehensive but for £40 can't argue. Might have a go.

  • Defo too early to risk it yet patient.....................the body needs time to heal especially all the nerve endings you have jarred and damaged.....
    Mike do you run with the Heart Monitor strap on all the time? I have an old Timex watch and HR strap as my Garmin is an old 205,must admit I prefer to just run with the garmin then mess with the HR strap, but reading your information I defo need to train slower, just need to believe it, keep hearing it and reading it just not doing it!!!image

  • BoD aqua jogging is always the way forward!

    I went for acupuncture this morning and jogged 6ish as per schedule around that, felt good compared with walking on it.

    Apparently Mortons has a very successful protocol compared with conventional treatments, you don't want a numb foot for life really do you, but today I just had the 75% version, full version is booked in for next week.

    It does seem to have helped.

    I wonder if there's a place for those tests so severe easier to get to.

    Slow is good. I go slow enough heh heh
  • 8m on the treadmill this evening.  I slipped outside walking on black ice, so decided that running on the paths was a no-no.  The forecasts for the weekend are grim image

  • mcs - re HR monitor. I wear it on most days and do react to it if the reading is too low (rare) or too high (more common). On the shortest of recovery runs I may not bother because (until last Wednesday) I pretty much knew what my HR was going to be anyway.....

    5m recovery today just about at freezing point but thankfully I avoided any black ice..

    Tomorrow is meant to be 10m GA but I am not sure how/when I can fit that in and stay in an upright position.....

  • Mike - fascinating stuff on pacing after your test results - guess the conclusion you have come to is to get your pace mixes during training better with emphasis on "slow" runs being hell of a lot slower than at present - 11 min/mile is a pace i don't think i could run at and i'm a lot slower than you (9 mpm mara pace) and i find slowing down to 10 mpm hard to do - i've got lots of time to try running much slower in the build up to the ultra.

  • The P&D program I'm following has definitely impressed on me the need to run more slowly than I was previously and I have done many miles now at 11:00 pace.  What I find mind-boggling is that Mike's slow pace is more like 12:00 pace - and he's a lot faster than me!

    I could probably get by at 12:00 pace on the treadmill if I had to, but outside I just couldn't go that slow (though in fairness - I previously thought that about 11:00 pace).  I doubt that my stride would be anything meaningful at 12:00 pace, because it is barely faster than walking.

    It's very interesting, and I'm fascinated to see how Mike copes with it.

  • Mike - what pace do you plan to run your standard 20 mile LSR at when you are at the peak of your marathon training and what is your target marathon pace?

    Abingdon entry opens on Friday 1st Feb - if anyone is thinking of entering then be quick cos it filled up in 3 weeks last year.

  • Nice interval session to work four miles supposed to be longer but had to get into the office before my lips and face froze off!!! Will be running home so do more on the way home, Speedcross trainers being worn all the time as I run on the snow and avoid the ice. Stay safe folks.
    I have a sore left foot on the outside for some reason as well as a slightly swollen left ankle, thinks the cross country took its toll on Saturday. More heavy snow due to night and Friday going to be interesting running long this weekend.image

  • Just about beat the snow today with an 8m LT run.

    1m w/u then 5m @ 7:30m/mile or thereabouts on quite a hilly route; 1m c/d. Dodged a few cars in the lanes and had to tippy-toe through some icy bits but felt good after 35m at relaxed pace in earlier runs this week.

    5 m paces were: 7:31; 7:43 (uphill); 7:32; 7:30; 7:33

    Matching HR: 129; 140; 138; 135; 136 so bang in line with my test last week.

    Pleased with that and don't feel too tired at all.....

  • mcs mind that ankle, I try to remember to twiddle mine before I get up these days.

    Nice Mike.

    I did 6.2 yesterday inc 30-20-10s
  • Blimey your heart rate is low for that speed Mike well done. I get up to the 160s going at that speed. Which Garmin do you have? With just having an old Timex heart rate monitor cant see heart rate average per mile just have to keep checking it as I run. Should invest in something more modern perhaps.
    Quite abit of snow here this am and ran to work down the trail, only the odd fox, badger drag and my footprints. Sky heavy but dont think we will get a lot more......alot of hype if you ask me, nothing like 2010 snow falls round here anyway!!!
    Have a nice weekend by the fire!!

  • RR whats 30-20-10s excuse my ignorance??image

  • Hello again, mad month has taken a brief hiatus for the snow...all going well raced a 5km in the US, can 3rd, 1st in age cat and got loads of bling, faster than this time last year and mileage is increasing (now at 70pw). Odd this week tried a session monday on the tread mill (1M warm-up, 3miles Marathon pace, 1mile HM pace, 3miles marathon pace, 1mile cool-down) and coul donly manage to hit the pace up till the second set of mara pace, then wednesday did this, 3miles mara pace, 2miles HM pace, 4miles mara pace no worries..cross country in the freezing cold, whats going on there???

    Anyway hows the rest of you?

  • My weekend at Uni has been cancelled so I'm gonna wait for the snow to settle and then go out and and do today's run then instead - 9 miles of prettiness coming up, with everyone else tucked up indoors! It's snowing just now so by tomorrow...image

  • mcs - Garmin Forerunner 305.

    Re HR some of those laps were downhill and then on flat road so flatters a bit, but I rarely get above late 150's anyway unless in the last meters of a 5k parkrun - certainly not when cruising just below LT.

    Might be an age thing - as we age the max HR drops. A couple of years ago, going hard uphill on my mountain bike I'd be pushed to hit 165, but this is'nt the same as my absolute HRmax!

    I'm also light 10stone, so maybe they all contribute in some way to a low HR?

  • You can't do direct comparisons with somebody else's heart rate.  A better guide is %Max or %HRR.  I've been side-by-side on a treadmill with someone who's heart rate was 30bpm higher than mine, but who clearly wasn't running any harder in terms of effort.  Their max must have been easily around 200-210bpm.

    I got mentioned on marathon talk this week and have been rivalled by Tom Williams in Jantastic.  First time I've ever posted on their site..... I clearly have this effect image

  • What did they say about you Ten?

    mcs my Garmin only tells me average HR for the whole outing, plus max reached, unless I set up laps I think. 

    Oh yes the 30-2-10s are a new thing for me.  They add up to a minute.  What you do is run 1 or 1.5 easy then do 30 secs steady, 20 threshold, 10 max; repeat X times [I do 5], then jog 2 mins, do [so far] two more sets of 30-20-10s.

    Very fun.

    Today I just went to a Pilates class, it has been a long enough day though with a meeting and all the trekking across London in slidy slushy urban nastiness.

    Mile End Park Run is looking highly unlikely for tomorrow, and then I had plans for an off road long run on Sunday.  That I could kind of do if I could get to off road! 

  • Sleepy, how was your run? Been at work today and didn't feel like a run when I got home, I will pop out tomorrow for 3/4 and then 9 on Sunday.

    RR, so Pilates, have you been doing it a long time?? I done about 6 sessions of equipment based sessions, really enjoy it and loads more flexible.

    Ten, famous at last !!
  • FH

    I am doing mainly reformer Pilates for about a year, twice a week usually, about to go again this lunchtime, so 3 this week. I think it's marvellous because it's all the things I find tricky because I never did them before in one session. 

    I do love it though.  The class I went to yesterday was like Bootcamp, whereas you can get sedate and graceful at the other end of the spectrum.  The fast aerobicy ones are less necessary to us I reckon, I need the slow strength and balance stuff. 

    Waiting to hear on SB in the snow. 

    Looks like I will have to go to the local gym to replicated Park Run experience, it's total ice here.

    Tui Na later.

  • Hi all

    Am safe and sound - worry not - it snowed quite heavily here yesterday and I ended up doing my neighbour a favour and now I'm just waiting for Ben to get back ... and then I'm going out!  It's pretty here!  We're pretty rural so everything's white and where I'm going I doubt they'll have bothered gritting so I get to run in the crispiness.  Been out to empty the dogs first thing and it seems perfectly runnable.Besides which - it's a slowie today so I can be careful! 

    Interesting factoid from Trail Running this month - trail shoes should be replaced every 1000km (620 miles) - as they're not as cushioned as road shoes - I wonder if this is more because of the ankle support going (and hence more likely to go over) - the lugs get a bit worn too I suppose.   I usually replace mine same as road shoes anyway (mainly cos I've usually stuck a toe through the top by then! What does every one do?

    Have a great weekend all - doubt there'll be many races on?  More to do with 'essential travel only' than runability I suspect - which is fair enough given the number of crashes on the news! I wonder if we'll all be more locally-focussed in 10 years' time if this winter pattern continues.  We all seem so much more willing to commute longer distances at the moment.  Luckily the clinic I'm looking to set up once I qualify is within walking distance image

    (ps talking of which - fingers crossed for it to continue - I'm getting some really good feedback on my massage at the moment.  Conclusion - it really does make a difference, it's not just my imagination!)


  • Bucket loads of snow here lovely. Not been out yet as still snowing here though not forecast to. more tomorrow too I reckon looking at the sky. A long one is going to be tough to do.image
    Marathon talk must listen to this weeks a mention a few weeks back......if you write up a run interesting you stand a good chance of getting on.

    Interesting re the heart rate Mike. You are light and older but as said you cant compare your heart rate to another person. I must wear mine more and make note of what I get to.
    Enjoy your deep snow running all and stay safe.

  • Mild snow here, we seem to have an odd micro climate and don't get any extreme / interesting weather...

    1st proper exercise in two weeks this morning!!! X-trainer attempt to

    Replicate TH run: 9 mins open, 23 min @ 87-91% HHR and 9 open. Feels good!!!
  • Fresh snow covering the ice made it safer for running today, so I was only too pleased to get away from the treadmill for my twelve mile MLR.

    It was hard work when I found myself wading through some drifts, but it was all good fun. During a slippy hill climb my mind began playing an infinite loop of Paul Simon singing the same couple of lines which lasted for the remainder of the run and beyond!

    “Slip sliding away, slip sliding away

    You know the nearer your destination, the more you slip sliding away”

    It was a fine backing track to my general thoughts, but I really should learn more of the lyrics image

    As this was an out-and-back twelve mile run, it was Sod's law that I felt a sharp pain at the back of my right leg (in the pit behind the knee) at almost halfway! I tried to walk/run it off and it wasn't too bad, so I put up with an invisible assailant jabbing my leg with a needle for the next couple of miles until I stopped noticing it. Since arriving home I've stretched, iced the area, rubbed in Traxam and taken Ibuprofen. Finger's crossed it heals quickly (rest day tomorrow).

    In spite of the conditions my pacing was just about right: 

    10:55/10:34/10:24/10:14/10:27/9:46/9:55/9:45/9:52/9:58/9:56/9:49 (avg. 10:08)

    However, on checking my heart rate statistics afterwards I've discovered that my average rate was almost equivalent to my 16m marathon pace run last week and peaked almost as high! This is running one minute per mile slower! I was still just about within my training heart range, though ideally I should have gone a bit slower up the returning incline image  I feel like my core has had a pretty good workout today too.

    On the trail an Alsation ran full pelt at me, then jumped at me while growling.  The owner was apologetic, and just saved her mutt from getting a swift uppercut image.  She clearly doesn't know what leads were invented for.  Strangling dogs.

    My recovery week is now complete (37 miles), so the build-up continues next week.  Much as I've enjoyed today's run, I hope the snow and ice don't hang around much longer.

  • RR - they read out my post in the "rate your run" segment.

    SB - I haven't kept shoe mileage records before, though I have just started with my most recent pairs.  In general I'd say I run several hundred miles outdoors in the shoes, then clean them up and use them on the treadmill for ages afterwards.  They can get well worn-out and still be usable on a treadmill, because it is more forgiving with the cushioned deck.

    I've read that road shoes should be replaced every 500 miles or thereabouts, so it's interesting that trail runner say's 620 miles is less mileage than for road shoes image  Probably a good job I've ignored previous guidelines (produced by the shoe manufacturers, perchance?).

    BoD - glad to see you're getting a workout.  Steady as she goes!

  • Choisty I meant to say I find treadie harder than anything else!
  • Ten - interesting about the knee twinge as I had exactly the same thing a couple of weeks ago. I don't remember what I did or even how I fixed it other than digging my thumbs in for a bit of manipulation and using the roller....but after an easy day or two and cutting my stride a bit it cleared up. Oh, I do remember I shied away from any extended fast stuff for a day or two.

    Re your HR - nothing to worry about as you were obviously working harder in the snow and revved up anyway keeping, nice run.


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