Auviour Paris: So long and thanks for the cobbles



  • Choisty  - my slow training is for the base load then I have to mix it up as you do so well. In fact for this campaign, I did rather more speed work early on in December and the extended the distances in Jan & Feb. Most training manuals will have us do it the other way round.

    Gentle 7m recovery this morning, almost felt too hot with no easterly wind to chill the bones. Ran it in 8:45 pace

    Sports massage 8:00 am tomorrow - long overdue!

  • Choisty/Mike/sleepy - my schedule for the Abingdon race this year will start after The Wall so i will have a very good base and the one i am going to use is Matt Fitzgerald Brain Training which builds by introducing a steady increase in speed and tempo work combined with LSRs - pretty standard really and very similar to other schedules; i like it cos you can see a clear progression over the weeks something i don't think the RW ones do.

  • Oscarr - not familiar with Matt Fitz but it sounds logical and the base traning wll definitely carry through as it did for me from VLM to Abingdon.

    FWIW - I am using P&D (18 wk up to 55m/w) as my guide but I do mix it up to fit in with things lke the XC series, and I love racng so do rather more than the recommended 2 races!

    By the tme I get to Boston, I will have done 11 races (inc xc) from mid-Nov to end March and not counting the odd parkrun

  • 12m MLR this morning.  I'm finding that all my runs are now on the very low side of my heart rate range.  I'll see how the weekends race goes before reconsidering my training paces.

    The P&D schedules also show a very clear progression with the training broken down into mesocycles.  I'm finding that my recovery after tough sessions has been phenominal compared to other plans I've followed.  I can't quite believe that I knocked out a comfortable interval session just a couple of days after the 22m run.

  • I have a challenge for you oscarr - I challenge you NOT to run faster than 10 min/miles at Grindleford.  (Ok it's hilly so you can be slower BUT NOT faster).  Set your watch on the average pace and keep it slower than 10!  I KNOW you can go faster but the challenge is for you to see if you can keep yourself reined in. That should mean a finish time of 3.30 or more...

    Just remember back to Belper - how horrible you felt that last mile but yet you'd zoomed off and left me behind in the middle.  I have my theories on your body being fab at running on carbs but not being very good at metabolising fat.  I dare you... the gauntlet has been thrown...

    You can go fast after the Wall... maybe I will gaffer tape our ankles together for Coniston - I'm planning nice sedate 9 min miling for that - followed by a 3½ hour walk the next day if anyone''s up for it??? image

    Ten - gotta love a good rate of recovery - I had to fast walk my hour this morning to keep my HR down but don't care... image


  • You're on !!!  Just got back from a nice slow 8 miler at just over 10 mpm - any slower and i would have been walking image.

    For GG i plan to take longer than 3.5 hrs so will try and keep slower than 10mpm.

    No way will i be doing Coniston at 9mpm - if i'm travelling that far then i've got to give it a bit of welly at leastimage.  I'm up for the walk on Sunday if Reiki is ok as we will be driving back south after and it depends what time she needs to be home - reckon we could at least fit in a longish recovery run in the morning.

    You're right (aren't you always!?!) about my physiology - with all the long runs i've done it's the fat metabolism that gets me and that's why i put so much store on getting calorie intake on the run for the long ones - having said that i seem to be able to go very long as long as slow so should be good for slow Ultras if i can train myself to run slow enough.

  • Wow! Just got caught up again.

    Very interesting discussion. I am with you SB on the importance of being able to absorb training as opposed to merely survive it. But my approach is more of A scaled down version of Choistys with LT and VO2 max sessions featuring prominently, in fact I have in the past three days managed one of each plus an easy run of 6 miles with strides.

    Am just planning for Coniston, work has been outrageous, I have 5 different things going on tonight simultaneously and all involving teenagers

    So I had booked accommodation from Thursday and will have a look at trains to go up on Thursday if I can return with you on Sunday Oscarr. I would like to travel both ways with you ideally but also fancy a mini rest after a stressful few MK the with no time off at all.

    As to timings, I need to be back in London by mid afternoon as I have a 6am start on Monday, but am negotiable on that. I'm guessing that you would want to drive to Reading, maybe there's a natural place to dump me en route rather than my having to return from Reading.

    More soon am at hospital with my foot and bring called in.
  • Aha so the MK above was my phone trying to convince me to do that half on 10 March. I meant months though!

    Hospital appointment didn't last long as I am not diabetic, something I already knew. Had a good chat with the podiatrist though.

    Now off to work.

    Meant to say earlier that I see a lot of progress and potential in many of the gang here, also that I think I'm like Oscarr on the carb metabolism.

    My brother is so fat adapted he doesn't have more than a few sips IV water during a marathon. By the time I finish I've had two meals, no wonder it takes a rad longer.

    Am pondering whether to unleash a Zipvit at halfway on Sunday. The price us two nights of disrupted sleep.

    I learned on Sunday that the max caffeine amount for any race is 3mg per kilo of body weight, so a Zip is right at my max all on its own.

    Am wondering if it would be better to space out my allocation, especially for VLM, or whether one mega hit at mile 17 say would be optimal.

    Any thoughts?
  • Hi reiki - I would say save it and only take one with caffeine in it 90 mins before the end.  That's when you most need it...

    oscarr - if you're good at Grindleford - I may consider letting you loose at Coniston - however - just think on... if your ultra schedule is anything like mine you need to be able to go on to do over 8 hours of training the following week (without pushing your body to the point of exhaustion).  Coniston is NOT the goal - it is going to be a lovely weekend away training with friends - and YES I AM always right LOLOLOLOLOLOLO image

    I have an exciting run ahead this lunchtime - am due to do 75 minutes including 2 miles at MP.  My legs are still a little tight but I will give it a go... A little tester before I start my programme in earnest next week - will be interesting to see what my pulse is like at MP!

    Am still grinning to myself occasionally thinking back to last Sunday - I have locked on to the way I was feeling - just tootling along thinking; "this is awesome, I feel great"  - can't wait to try and recapture that - though the more I repeat it to myself the better I feel anyway! Might become my new mantra!  Think a ½ PB attempt may be on the cards later this year!


  • I think one caffeine gel is enough in a marathon for the big push. I take mine at 23 and let the legs feel the benefit
  • I tend to be similar to Oscarr I reckon at mile 18, if not a couple of miles earlier start to weaken!!! Guess more carbs and more food on the go will be essential for 21 miles. How do you Choisty run a marathon on a couple of gels? Guess metabolism, mine is quick, genetics and training are the deciding factors. I defo dont run long enough so thats my issue but I do start to run out of fuel in the late teens. Though training this last few weeks I haven't really used gels or anything so if I get some in for  GG I should reap the benefits.  I am going to take it steady at GG for the first half then see how I fell, the good thing for me is I know where the big hills are coming and know I need to save energy for those. 3.30 would be nice to do but not really that fussed just looking forward to being out there and enjoying a race. Whats your half PB SB?

  • Well that was an interesting sesh: 2 miles warm up, 2 miles at MP, 2 miles cool down.  My new MP (8.56) took my HR to 170 by the end though I still felt just like I was running steady - will map the data over time and see if drops down as I go along...  Just goes to show eh - you can feel fine but your body's working hard/recovering from a previous run! image

    mcs - PB 1:45:01 (pesky little second!!!!) Haven't really targeted a half for the last 5 years, they've always been training towards something else so I figure it's time to update it image  Loving your Grindleford attitude - I'm so jealous - it sounds fab - either next year or the year after for me I reckon!

  • Oh yeah and before I forget .... we're gonna book for Cyprus in teh next few weeks if anyone's still interested in a group jolly.  The early bird discounts expire on 31.03.2013.

    I shall give yous all a nudge when the deed is done... image

  • Three good running things to report today:

    1. On massage table at 8:00 am - first 20 mins easy and then ouch for the rest

    2.Package arrived full of High5 gels at below manufacturer's cost £16.99 v £25.55

    3. 11m run tonight: 2m w/u then 6 @ HMP (or as near as...) 7:36 hilly; 7:33 hilly; 7:00 flat; 7:07 downhill; 6:52 downhill; 7:22 uphill & interupted by car, then 3m jog home.

  • Great running Mike.

    mcs - have been looking at the GG info - i have printed the route guidance notes and i have the OS map but do i really need these or is the route marked well enough??

    Reiki - I will look at my plans for Coniston later but first thought is that i will go up friday morning (currently booked for friday and sat nights) and leave to come back late afternoon on Sunday after the hike/run with Sleepy so if you are going up thursday and back sunday morning it may be better to book the train both ways??

    Good session at track tonight with pyramid runs at 5K pace.  Did a 30 minute row at home this morning followed by exercises.  Tomorrow morning is my spinning class for 40 minutes followed by a few miles running to put the muscles back in the right direction! 

  • Sleepy - if you are looking at Cyprus then you may wish to compare pricing of 2 options for the same arrangements - first is all in with 2:09 Events and second is booking the same hotel via travel/hotel website and book the race event direct with the Cyprus organiser.  Flights you have to book yourself anyway in both options - you need to book transfers cos taxis are rediculously expensive in Cyprus although public buses are really cheap.

  • Oscarr 

    Sadly you could be right, will check out trains later after work and report back. 

    Thanks for the advice on the gels people, I think maybe I'll stick to the one then, well for Sunday at Spitfire for a start.  Am planning a progression 20 ending with 6 miles @ MP.  

    SB I meant to say that my plan for Coniston sounds similar to yours. 

    I have been keeping HR records for a while now, must get analytical!  I do know that I peaked at 151 on my 6 yesterday, but went up to 205 on my pyramid session on Tuesday.  


  • Might be worth having them with you Oscar though folk tell me that there are walkers all round the course who have set off earlier so not a problem route finding.  Guess thats easy for me to say knowing it all but if the weather is bad then might be worth having it with you.  I can always talk you through the route prior to the run as there are a couple of points where I guess you could get lost.  Not sure the route is marked will ask a friend who did it last year.
    Final commute to work this morning was a little emotional but a bootiful morning running slowly down the trail took me 30 mins to do three miles as didn't want to go fast!!!! Coniston 14 sounds like its going to be a big meet up of the Asics 2011 bootcamp session!!

    Have a good day all.image

  • Dont think you need the OS map the directions should be enough. Shame the weather looks like it will turn at the end of next week, beautiful here at the moment, predicting rain for next Friday/ Saturday. Can change in a week hopefully.

  • thanks mcs, will wait for any updates re the course marking

    All - just had an email  from Zipvit - they have just won an industry award for their gels and have announced some new flavours coming out at the end of March including, would you believe, Rhubarb and Custard plus Bakewell Tart and their new caffeine one is Smooth Espresso !!!!!!!!!!

  • Morning all!

    Mike - really?  that bad?  The physios who are teaching us are very much of the 'pain is bad' school of thought.  Pain can indicate applying pressure to areas of microdamage which then just causes more damage.  Discomfort when using compressions on 'knots'  is sometimes unavoidable as the area is tender to start with but I am very concerned about how many people have painful experiences.  I will chat with the physios again at the weekend.

    I saw my 2:24 guy last night - such a lovely chap - he was doing 120 mpw when he ran his pb but is now very much a cross-training convert and attributes it to his lack of injury over the long term. 

    reiki - cracking - we can run together then???

    oscarr - oooooh - will look forward to trying those - I've just about run out of my stash of blackcurrant ones but I need to be brave and finish the cola ones I'm still stuck with.  They're not that bad really I suppose (she says trying to convince herself LOL).  Thanks for the reminder, I remember now you saying about booking direct.  I have the brochures here so I will look at them again when I can get Ben to sit down and confirm he can get the time off! Am going by myself if needs be - yes I am - you cannae stop me image

    Going out this afternoon to do my long run (2hs 25) as I am on my course this weekend so can't do it then.  Think I'll be walking quite a bit but on a sunny day like today that's no hardship image

    Enjoy the sun whilst it's here folks (and if you can get outside)

  • Spinning done this morning - it really is a great 40 mins of hard work and certainly equiv to at least 4 miles running hard but with no impact so its kind on the joints etc.  Got a slightly sore right achilles so am foam rollering and icing and will do spinning again tomorrow instead of running.  Long run planned for Sunday (15 miles very slow).

  • Sleepy - regarding Coniston, i've just checked my ultra schedule (RW Ultimate one) and the week after Coniston (week 4) is a cut back week so only 38 miles or about 6.5 hours - mind you the day after Coniston we are due to do 3.5 hrs to finish week 3. Reckon Coniston needs to be a progressive paced run for me with only the last few miles all out.  Start with the HR crew and gradually increase ????

  • Just had a nice little lunchtime run up the hill at the end of the Trail Oscarr where you run up over the golf course, its like a swamp where the bikers have been coming down I reckon and water running down it. Beautiful day here, just sat at the top of the hill on a bench taking in the view over to Chatsworth and its fantastic. Will miss these lunchtime plods. Where I am going to is on an industrial estate in the middle of Clay Cross! Joy.
    Must try some zipvits can you only get them on line?image

  • mcs I really feel for your loss of the beauty of that commute. 

    I have loads of the blackcurrant Zips, did get that email alerting me to the new flavours, mind you I used to always have Torqs and they had rhubarb & custard, not to mention a couple of yoghurt flavours. 

    I just don't get why the caffeine content needs to be so extreme! 

    SB you could be on!  How hilly is Coniston do we know? 

    First things first of course with the 20 on Sunday.  WIsh I was doing the Wall as I am all about duration and recovery walks. 

    Today my Pilates class was cancelled, couldn't get in as the substitute teacher had no keys or phone number to contact or anything, mega annoying that as it left me two hours early for work. 

    Just did a set of Sam's strength exercises and that was that, too tired now to do bike or anything ahead of an out and back faster session in the morning.

    Gothenburg on the tele so will record that and watch my training chums from Tuesday in the pm as I veg out.

  • mcs - forgot to ask - i presume its trail shoes for GG ?

  • Just caught up on a month of posts. Some good progress being made by all!
    I have been working pretty hard, not sleeping well and not having much luck yet in finding a new job.
    My running hasn't been great for most of that period, I've just not had the inclination and felt uninspired (apart from parkrun).
    As a result my mileage over the past few weeks has been (since my job news):
    16,15,11,10, but this week I ran a fast 5k on Saturday - my fastest parkrun since September, and it brought my Ranking back up a bit, 10m on Sunday morning (it was cold, I was tired and hurting from the day before, but once I got into it, it went surprisingly well), I ran 5m and 3m on Tuesday and 5m today at lunchtime. So 26m since Saturday is pretty good and I feel better for it.
    I just hope I can find something work wise soon, I have been projectiong into the future how long I would last before I hit the streets image

  • mcs - I think so - I've not seen them in any shops - but then I don't go to physical shops very often!

    reiki - I had a look at the website the other day - it says it's undulating with the main climb being up to Brantwood towards the latter stages.  I can't remember those roads too clearly but I think round there the climbs are fairly short though can be steep.

    oscarr - your call - just as long as you don't trash yourself it'll be ok!  My programme is already getting chopped about a bit as I try to cram the crucial bits in during the week to accommodate my course and weekend commitments but I'm not worried by it.  Looking forward to "officially" being in-training again!

    AC8 - sorry to hear of your woes - keep your chin up and keep going - something will come up soon I'm sure. But don't let yourself start catastrophising yet  - you'll just stress yourself more. There's no point worrying about something that hasn't yet happened.  Fingers, toes and paws crossed for you! Let us know how you're getting on when you can image

  • Ac I would write with a CV and letter to every company you know who you would like to work for and tell everyone you know you are in the market for work, do anything to get you working would be my preference as I don't think the ideal job is out there any more, all the best.

    If it's wet Oscarr I am going to wear trail shoes. Day off better do some jobs.

    Happy Friday all.
  • AC8 - hope you can still keep your spirits up some how - good to see you doing some running as i found that at times of stress a good run helped clear my head and put things into perspective a bit

    mcs - thanks, trail shoes it is - will be good to chat about the points to look out for re directions when i get up there - plan to drive up on friday morning

    Reiki - i may stay an extra night (Sunday) at Coniston to do the long session with Sleepy and Mr Sleepy so best to look at trains both ways i think 

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