Auviour Paris: So long and thanks for the cobbles



  • Yaaay Choisty family imageimageimage

    oscarr - if you do what you've always done... image It's hard though, I agree, to just focus on one target race and not over-race the ones in the build up.

    Can't decide my target for this weekend yet as I don't know the course.  It seems to be a bit of everything so as long as I'm under 90 minutes I'll be happy I think.  Not sure a pb is likely. Gonna be fun though - last time I checked there were 44 women out of 105 runners.  Hopefully they're all planning the 2 laps and not just the one.  Will be very odd to have the choice of dropping out (officially) after 1 lap or going on...

    11k today for me with 4k upto 10k pace fartlekking - is that a word???

  • Sleepy - what race is it that you are doing this weekend?  No danger of me over-racing in my mara build-up cos it only comprises 5K (12 weeks out), 10K (8 weeks out) and Half (6 weeks out).  The point really is that if i was only training for Halfs then all my shorter distance paces would be as they are now and would be correct - to then slow everything down when going up to mara because i am crap at doing a mara at predicted pace is just wrong and will never get me to any reasonable target.  However, i could abandon all speed work and just do lots of slow miles and see where that gets me to but no coach in the world would sanction that approach for a target time mara.

  • 1) You are NOT crap - you're just a speed merchant.

    2) You don't have to abandon speed work - just don't over-cook it "just because you can".  Remember how easy Cape Wrath felt based on "easy" training...?  Does your Garmin software have a training load type calculator built in.  I've just had to rejig my training and will now be doing all my ½ mara session at Mara HR instead of ½ pace as it puts me in red in combo with everything else I'm doing. 

    (If not - you could have a play with polar's website - I don't think you need to have a polar - you'd just have to put the data in manually to see your training load:



    One of those crazy runs for me today - felt a bit tired so decided not to push myself - the end result - 14 minutes quicker than last week when I did beast myself in the 10k segment. And an average speed 2 minutes faster!  How does that work!!!! Everytime!!!! Gonna give up trying and just run comfortably!

  • Choisty - brilliant double family celebration! Great news re the TK training on Friday's, I hope she enjoys it.

    Oscarr - re HM & Mara etc. What would happen if you just ran on feel?

    I reckon you would surprise yourself and beat your previous times handsomely - don't overthink it or you end up in a box and hold back.

    Re speed work - it's all relative. In my mara build up I think if I did one parkrun a month it was a lot. Instead I focused on longer runs with more relevance to the marathon, so I think in my last campaign I ran them in this order HM (to give me a marker for Mara pace); then 20m; 10k; & 10m which I ran hard 3 wks before the main event.

    SB - that link looks interesting, I think I'll have a play later, thanks.

  • SB - because i can't download from my garmin its not worth me looking but thanks anyway

    Mike - if i ran by feel i would probably go too fast and blow up which has happened several times already - if i am to build on last years Abo race (which i ran well and know i could not have given any more on the day) then i have to be able to pace things correctly - plan is to start at 4hr pace and accel at some point if i feel ok.

    One thing that is worrying me is that since i started to input a lot of speed and tempo work into the training i have picked up a virus which has been with me for a couple weeks now and refuses to go.  I'm also very tired indeed.  Someone close to me has also got a very nasty virus so i probably have caught it from there but i can't dismiss the possibility that it is as a result of overtraining.  I have been taking extra rest days to help and will just have to keep on monitoring it.

    Not so happy days.

  • image  Hope you feel better soon!  Where's the fun in picking on you when you can't fight back image

    Was beginning to wonder if you were related to Rosie... changing your training and finding it makes a difference - an epic ultra and a monster 5k PB may I remind you - but then going back to your old ways .  Just saying image

    It's my job to give you grief remember image

    Now where shall I send the get well wild flowers I wonder! Lucky send you a woof image

    Seriously - hope it clears soon.  We were just talking last night about immune systems, extra protein and marathon training - considering trying the zipvit recovery drink thingy with colostrum in it... Here's the blurb - anyone tried it?

    "Fast digesting proteins and easily digested carbohydrates have been specially selected for rapid nutrient delivery immediately after training. These include 'Protekt™', a research proven proprietary blend of colostrum, whey proteins, amino acids and vitamins, which reduce muscle damage and breakdown during exercise. 'Deliver™' is ZIPVIT SPORT's proprietary protein formula, which provides all the amino acids needed to fuel the immune system, reduce infections and repair muscle damage."



  • I do need to seriously review my training schedule - got my key Half race indicator a week on Sunday then 8 weeks to Abo so still plenty of time to get my strength back.

  • sorry, 6 weeks.

  • The only point I was trying to suggest was to keep your pace reigned in a bit (ie if the plan says to run at 5k pace - do so - don't run at 3k pace ya naughty monkey!)

    And maybe have a look at the goal race times which correspond with achieving a sub 4 so that you're not overdoing it by going too fast in the build up races so that your legs are as fresh as humanly poss come Abo. Do the bare minimum to achieve what you need to - not a pb "just because you can".  Everything has that knock on effect don't forget... OTTOMH - a 1:50 corresponds with a 3:50

    OH and btw Running by feel will not lead to you blowing up at 20 miles.  You were as far away from blowing up at Cape Wrath as to have been the exact opposite.  Wonder if your fear of it happening has become a self-fulfilling prophecy - maybe start telling yourself the opposite - is it 7 times a day you're supposed to repeat it so that you remember and believe - something like that image

    Anyway - who am I to speak - I'm only just starting to feel like I'm recovering from the big 'un!  For the first time in the last 2 months - my zone 2 pace (8.3 miles today) is back to where it was beforehand and my running's start to feel a bit easier again.  I'm sleeping quite a lot too - maybe it's just the heat???

    Take it easy - get well soon! Pass it on... image

  • Completely revamped my schedule now to something a lot more realistic and appropriate bearing in mind i already have speed and endurance in the legs so need to keep those both tuned up to Abo.  Have removed "speed" work and will only do one tempo session per week at HMP + medium length midweek run @ base pace + long run alternating LSR and MP pace + spin class + recovery run.  Reckon 5 weeks of doing 3K and 5K sessions has brought on this virus and fatigue.  Part of the plan is Maidenhead half which cos it's the only race i will do, it's 6 weeks out and I have shortened the length of my midweek tempo runs at HMP means i will race it for a PB - got to have some fun in amongst all this!!!!!

    I still intend to start Abo at a relaxed pace aiming to do negative split - that way i know i will not blow up.  Last 2 marathons have been run sensibly and well, without blowing up, and i take great store in the memory from these (Abo and Cape Wrath). 

  • Sounds sensibubble! So you're having a mini-taper before and see how you feel after?

    Your idea of fun is closely similar to that husband of mine's.  You'll never appreciate those wildflowers at high speed ya know image

    As always - you will be totally fine I'm sure!

    If anyone ever wants an advert for zipvit - oscarr's your man - it's hilarious - he really does react well to them and suddenly becomes like road runner - meep meep image

    Not be long now til 2014 entries are open - really looking forward to entering Kielder and finally ticking that bad boy off the list! Excitey!

  • Oscarr - a step-down in intensity will bring you roaring back. Hard weeks do take their toll so good luck with the recovery....

    As for intensity - off to do the Magic Mile at the track in Reading tonight.....

  • Thanks guys and gals

  • v all have been mad busy, and of course no prompts come my way anymore, it's not that I'm not thinking of you all.

    Mike, it's a week ago but yes I warm up, PR is a mile from my house, & then I do a few drills / strides once I get there, & I usually run a negative slit [2 lap course], so I don't think I go off too fast.

    It's just comfortable to run over 25 mins, murder close to 24.

    I am very impressed with your running, & of course with the Choisty tribals, how awesome!

    Having followed the Oscarr debacle, I was frustrated by what I recognize in myself as a lack of listening when I have fixed goals, often linked to a fear of underpreparing, so I am delighted to see a transformation, and have every faith in the outcome now.

    I am convinced by the long progression run, and actually sped up or finished strongly on both my sub 4s. I also favour variety & brevity in speedwork.

    SB you blow me away, I want to retire or take a month off and study your output, i am fully convinced by it, and I have the data, it's just a question of interpreting for a review & possibly a revised way forward.

    Which brings me to York {same day as Abo so 7 weks to go].

    I did 14 miles on Sunday after the ParkRun, and 5 easy yesterday, otherwise just 3 pilates classes & a HIT session on the bike this week as hip has been slightly ouchy again after a surge of obliques work, soooo my question is....without speedwork [unless you count all that WPFG effort & the ParkRuns], and scope for track sessions from here in, do I have a realistic prospect of jogging round harmlessly in say 5 hours if I squeeze in a 17, & 2 x 20s before cutting back?

    I have Lingfeild Dry hill multiterrain 10 miler on Sunday this week, & will do either another half or a 10 or 10K nearer the time. Mileage has been low, but endurance is high with pool & bike as ever.
  • reiki - yes!  I deffo reckon so - regular tempo running is enough to get you round imo, speedwork is the icing on the cake!  Your shorter stuff will deffo help towards the latter.  I refer you to Cape Wrath - the only "speed" work we did for that were 10 mile/½ mara pace mile efforts and a 3 mile MP sandwich.  As for your way forward - 80% easy, 20% pacey!  Simples image

    So jealous of upcoming marathons - but will be sensible and stick to my one a year philosophy - even though Kielder have just extended their numbers.  Evil temptresses image

    Will be off to the edge of Derbyshire after lunch - usual logic applies - start, enjoy, see what happens, finish image

  • RR - you'll be fine. Just remember there are two key milestones in a mara. 1st is an easy run to halfway; 2nd is how you deliver your package (mental image of your number being the package) to 20m. If you get that right to that point, then it is all in for the last 10k from there, and anyone on here can do that.....

    Magic Mile report:

    Four of us lined up for the sub six effort with another 6-8 runners waiting for the 6 minute + session after we had finished.

    I was on the back of the group from about 200m and slowly lost touch. Well, I say slowly, the first split came in 5:20 pace and that was too hot for me. In effect I was then running a solo time trial as the other three drew away.

    I remember going through halfway in 2:48 and then it became a mental battle to push hard into the wind on the back straight and not ease up on lap 3. Into the final lap I was about 80m behind the other guys and held on for a fast finish.

    My splits 1:22 (inc the extra 9 yds)!; 1:26; 1:28 and 1:27. Finish 5:43 for the mile.

    Our group result were 5:18 for the winner and me bringing up the rear in 5:43. One of the guys is a 2:59:xx marathon runner so I was running with the gazelles.

    Good fun, but I was stiff for today's 50th parkrun - yay! Made it in 20:14, no fireworks but a lovely morning for running.

  • Yea gads Mike - that's pure awesomeness that is!  Enjoy that shiny red top!!  Mine's still ages away but at least I'm in double figures! imageimage

    Twiddling thumbs here - nearly time to go... nearly, nearly

    5pm start - not sure I've ever done a 5pm start before.  But was offered fish and chips on the way home.  Who am I to say no? image

  • Thanks SB, really tired now and not running tomorrow. Might go for an easy bike ride to loosen up .....

    Good luck in your own run


  • Pure awesomeness is right! I haven't done my magic mile yet, sadly it ends 4 days before our club mile, which I've only done once as I find it hard to run fast in a park in the dark!.

    SB 5pm is a wierd time. Our XC 10K started at 5 though, it was OK with 2nd lunch boost. Mind you I am a morning person, & found a 2pm half start silly, & a 7:30pm 10 mile start plain ridiculous!

    Let's see how Lingfield goes tomorrow, but you guys are cheering me up no end!
  • My race report - set off, got told off for chattering (by most marshalls image), had a thoroughly enjoyable run on grass, gravel, woodland trail, stippy steppy rocks and a bit of tarmac, finished in a very satisfactory (to me) time of 88:22 (flat equivalent apparently 85:20 ish - though I don't think I'm able to factor in multi-terrain surfaces).  Average HR - 175 but felt a lot less, breathing was very quiet and I felt totally relaxed.  Had a bit left for the uphill to the finish but wasn't too motivated by then.  Lovely supporters on the course and lots of chatter in the middle of the field. (13th lady, 4th FV40) 

    Course was "only" 655 ft of ascent with 676 ft of descent according to my watch - was pretty pleased that I didn't have to walk any of the hills - thought I might after the first lap but weirdly the second lap felt easier!

    Ran a very slight negative split - 44:22 vs 44:00.  Was running on feel and not for a time (especially after I'd seen the first lap). Not UKA licensed so doesn't count for rB but couldn't have asked for a better tempo run for a Saturday evening.  And got a nice logo'd trainer bag which is a bonus cos I've lost my last one and they ARE very handy for dumping wet muddy shoes in!

    Another one ticked off the list! image


  • Quick summary of the past fortnight:

    Total running: 0 miles image

    I was struck down by something - virus maybe, who know's? Certainly not my doctor who said "I don't know what it is". Useful. Three days in bed with no energy, no appetite, struggling with headaches that varied in intensity but were unrelenting. Ambulanced into hospital and put on the drip, which helped. Another couple of days of headaches before they relented. Another week of next-to-no eating and sruggling to drink. Hated the sight, smell, taste of food in any way shape or form. Finally managed to force down some soups and start on the road to recovery. Sleeping has been a real struggle. I've felt like I've had jet-lag. Wide awake at 3:00am, and dead to the world at 11:00am.

    Slept fine last night for the first time, and seem to be eating normally today and enjoying the food (hurrah!). Gutted that the kids holiday has been badly affected by me being so ill. Hoping to go to Legoland before the poor sods have to go back to school this week. Feeling so guilty they've had a crap holiday.

    Another race bites the dust next weekend, even though it's only a 10k. I'm hoping to start some easy running soon. I'm not looking forward to seeing how badly it has affected my fitness.

    I wish I knew what caused the problems. If it was a virus, well shit happens. But at the moment I have to consider the possibility that I was just doing too much and not allowing adequate rest. I don't think that is the case, but a "virus" is just a typical doctor's fob-you-off, so I'm doubtful about that too.

    Roll on 2014. 

  • Awww Ten - that sounds rotten!  Sounds like more than over training to me though.  +1 for the virus... there seem to be some nasty monster ones about just now.  R

    eally glad you're on the mend.  Keep it up and you'll soon be back in action!  You'll be fine - a fortnight won't have affected much - you'll bounce back in no time. It'll just be that first and second run that feel a bit tough so take them easy and don't give them another thought.  Feet up! image

  • Rough patch indeed Ten - at least you are out the other side. The kids will understand, they wouldn't have likes seeing their daddy ill so don't feel guilty.


  • Thanks Sleepy/Mike. I needed to vent a bit yesterday after feeling powerless for what seemed like an eternity. Feeling a bit more "normal" today, so a day out with the family is on the cards for tomorrow.

  • Ten - have a great day tomorrow with the family - i have also been laid low with something, but not as severe as you - very,very tired, sleeping 10 to 12 hrs a day and mild headaches and sore throat - I reckon its a virus picked up cos overtraining lowered my imune system and its a way of my body saying "hey mate, i need a rest!!".

    Not run since last thursday and will not until i feel 100%.  Next race is Maidenhead half this coming Sunday which i hope to be ok for.

    RR - you are very right about feeling scared that you are not prepared enough for the next race - that's the biggest lesson learned from the last few weeks - SB put it clearly that i had not taken notice of the big lessons i proved to myself durind and after The Wall and fell back into just doing a standard mara schedule - have learned a big lesson and will be much more confident about the furture as long as i take notice of what works for ME, not others!!

  • oscarr - actually no I take it back - go back to your way of doing things - otherwise you might become a tad unstoppable and right now all I have is that I have a faster mara pb than you - think that might be about to change! image image

    Might be taking my 2k at 5k pace a bit steadier tomorrow - had disco leg during lunges today at Body Pump - I blame oscarr - he said I had to run hills so I found a hilly race.  All his fault - in fact I did blame him when the instructor was teasing me image.  Amazing how it sneaks up on you - legs felt totally ok yesterday but then it was a rest/walk the dogs kind of day.  Will see how they feel and what my HR is doing in the morning. 

    Am really liking this 3 weeks train / 1 week ½ volume + easy pattern - really looking forward to my rest next week.  Saturday put me in red but back down to yellow today and should be in green tomorrow.  Am gonna go have another crack at the local parkrun this week - reckon I should be able to get a course pb given the 1st time was a post recovery run and 2nd was a tail run.  Not bothered about an overall pb as it's a slow course (Ben reckons about 2 minutes out) just gonna use it as a good high-end tempo sesh.  Saw somewhere the other day something about running a 5k in thirds - fast, slow, fast.  Anyone got any thoughts on that?  I know if I start fast I suffer - anyone got a strategy for me to play with?

  • You'll thank me in the long run !!!

    IMHO a 5K race is too short for messing around with different paces so just get into a good 5K pace from the start and hold it to the end, simples !!!!

  • go fast and.hang on SB. i am not subtle. here warm weather training in Alicante. did a nine mile beach run in the early am yesterday and sunday five on the 35 degree afternoon heat, too hot had to fall in the pool on my return. Fell race on friday hopefully cooler back home. all the best to you giys.



  • SB - re 5k.

    The key is the first 800m or so (do not start flat out) then slowly increase the pace to 3k; hold to 4.7k and flat out to finish.

    If you start too hard you will drop off in the middle section and even a sprint finish will not recover the time.

    Good luck!

  • Thanks guys - I like the idea of a build up at the start Mike.  Once I hit the uncomfortably hard bit I know it's all over so if I can stay just below that pace I might be able to keep it going...

    mcs - hope you're having a lovely time image  How's the cake out there? Hope you're sampling lots image

    oscarr - it's a good job I like hills image.  My 10k later this month and ½ next are both off road and not gonna be the fastest but as they're planned as training runs I will only confiscate your beer and cakes the once image.  U starting to feel any better?

    Kept the foot off the gas a bit this morning - good job I checked my polar site - was still in yellow today (and feel it!) but still my fastest Tuesday session so far - 2k at upto 5k HR was the plan.  Didn't get anywhere near (max HR 176 - aim was 182-187) - more like 10k but feel better for doing it so happy and ready for 2moro - 11k with 5k upto 10k HR fartlekking.

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