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Tend to agree with O on this subject. Ok SB what are my training speeds please as you seem to be the thread scientist, coach etc. My HM time in Sept is 1.42 my Full Mara is 4.08 in May. Any suggestions appreciated. I find it hard to run much slower than 9.15 min miles unless crawling up the hills round here. I think my build means I aint going to get a fast mara time. Too tall and lean, or is that an excuse. HM is defo my fav race. The Ultimate schedule I am following is saying 9.07 for my easy pace running.
Oscarr Thanks, will make that a late addition to the christmas list!
Re times - my times for shorter distances seem to be a lot better than those for longer runs - e.g. 22:22 for a 5k and (I think) my last 800m was 2:40 odd versus 1:52:00 for a half... but then I've never followed proper training plans so I think that's half my problem right there!
SB - Cool, will let you know when I'm all registered
They said the results will prob be some time tomorrow... Going to be a long wait - patience is not one of my virtues! Haha
One of the ladies (SO4) has suggested that there be a bit of a bootcampy reunion at TR24 this year and has suggested this years final 5 Vs Bootcampers 2011 Vs Bootcampers 2012.
What do you reckon?
Only confusion is which Bootcamp team do I put myself into?
Nice idea RRR - but I cannae squeeze anymore in next year... I've already races booked in til November!
mcs - I will give you both rows and then you can decide:
Based on your HM: (predicts a mara of 3.32)
recovery = 9.31-10.46 / base = 8.37-9.30 / mp = 8.06, hmp = 7.48 / 10k = 7.25
Based on your mara: (predicts 1.58 hm)
recovery = 10.52-12.12 / base 9.54-10.51 / mp = 9.20 / hmp = 9.02 / 10k 8.36
The general advice of the book would be to go on the most recent and then update based on a monthly "tune up" race...
RRR: I'm deffo up for that. Was thinking about trying to find some people, so ideal. Who else???
KR: I couldn't possiably comment on that fr legal reasons...
Everyone else: interesting reading on the traget times etc.
just come back from what must be the coldest run i have ever done - even with 2 pairs gloves the fingers still froze - wind chill plus freezing fog - plus, got attacked by 4 dogs (no jack russels though!) - still a great run though - now where's that cake, cake, cake
SB - Sorry to hear that but it sounded as though you have a busy schedule for this year... you'll be completing your own ultra!
Bo - Awesome! There are quite a few people considering it although how many many will actually put the money down I'm not too sure, but at the moment we're looking at about 12 people+ saying they're interested!
Oscarr - 4 dogs?? Do you smell of steak or something? Or was it one inept owner?
RRR: brilliant. Are you organsing???
oscarr: I hate dogs on runs. (sorry SB) Once bitten twice, thrice peed off.
RRR - just one inept owner i'm afraid - i got the "its alright they won't bite" quote but not convinced when one of her dogs was bearing its teeth a few inches from my ankles - anyway, it provided a forced rest!!!
I'm game for meets at runs, it just depends on the date.
Wooahh - too much to take in! I'm gonna have to read through recent posts again.
Grrr, where's me pic?
SB - although the different calculators use different methods, they are all remarkably similar regarding suggested training paces. I will continue to validate by monitoring my heart rate too and adjust as time progresses.
Oscarr - You're not wrong! I had targeted sub-1:50 half-marathon in November/December. Unfortunately my knee had other ideas just when I was flying . Had my training not suffered so much, I would have done better in the Stevenage half. So now my target is sub-1:50 at Silverstone next March. I'll revise my training and targets then, if necessary. In the meantime, my assumption is that I will gradually get back to at least my August level of speed (no big hurry).
For my Lactate-Threshold runs, the P&D book says that half-marathon pace is for the speedier runners. Slower runners should run closer to 15K race pace. Since I haven't run a race of 15K, I've calculated based on VDOT tables in Jack Daniels book. To quote from "Advanced Marathoning" (an excellent read BTW):
"Lactate-threshold training should be run at close to the pace that you can currently race for 1 hour. For serious marathoners, this is generally a 15K to half-marathon race pace. Slower runners should run closer to a 15K race pace on tempo runs, faster runners should run closer to half marathon race pace."
I know I'm only in with an outside chance of running sub-4 next spring, but I'm going to train like there's no doubt . It's all part of the long term goal regardless of the result.
What book are you looking at SB/Oscarr?
I'd say that the above quote from Advanced Marathoning validates what you are saying about training paces (ie. difference between MP and LT pace is greater than recommended by other schedules that use HMP). I suspect I'm also like you Oscarr, since my marathon time is totally out-of-line with all my other race times. There's only one way to find out, though.
I'm excited about the journey already
Bo, RRR - well you can definitely count me in - really looking forward to it!
SB - shame you can't make it! What races are you booked up for next year (you're too organised - I haven't even bought christmas presents yet!)
Ten - I'm aiming for sub 4 in the spring... perhaps we can exchange tips (obviously I'm hoping the Spring mara will be Paris!)
Oscarr - 4 dogs?? Are you sure you aren't getting confused with channel-swimming and smothering your legs in goose fat or something?
I think the smart money is on you running in Paris, so I'll be following your thread.
Otherwise I've wasted another vote. Oops - don't let that worry you
Bacon - it's more likely to be the rucksac full of cake that he was carrying - practising for the ultra we're doing together in June (he will be my on-board cake supplier...LOL oh sorry oscarr - did I not mention that part). My races next year are Sleaford Half in Feb, Coniston 14 in March, Lincoln 10k in April Whitby CTS 10k and Cape Wrath Mara in May, The Wall in June - then various 10ks/local duathlon series in the summer leading upto the Cyprus 4 day Intl Challenge in November (which is rapidly turning into a forum holiday and to which all are invited...)
Ten - we're both consulting Fitzgerald - Brain Training for Runners
oscarr - Rascal got into a fight/was attacked by another dog today too - she has a few scratches and bruises but I think she's ok - wasn't very nice but the owner was so mortified that I forgive them both. Some owners on the other hand shouldn't be allowed out!
Thanks SB. I don't have that one. I'd probably better avoid.... it's confusing enough as it is. I think I'm going to consider "Advanced Marathoning" to be my bible for the next four months. Unless I change my mind.
How long does it take RW to post the avatar picture? Runbritain was instant... oops what have I said!
YAYAYAYAYAYA I know what Ten looks like, I know what Ten looks like
Nice to have a face to a name now Ten - Hurrah!
Thanks Ten, I appreciate that - although that just makes me all the more nervous now!! haha
SB - wow, I'd never considered a rucksac full of cake on a long run before... Got to get me one of those!
Sounds like a busy year ahead! Good luck with all the events!
Right... I'm off to Amazon to order a book...
Sleepy - you do realise that once Ten's mush is shown on here that you will then be one of the very few hiding behind an image rather than a photo - speck and plank...
But this is what I look like - when I'm not in running gear - it takes an age to put on my skin you know
Thought you would have an answer..
Ha! i have lots of photo but have not [witness my 26.2 fiasco] managedt o upload them to anything. For FB I use my phone.
Gosh yesterday was interesting. I woke up with acute nausea and forced my self in to work despite difficulty in holding head up without that panicky yet strangely grounding inner hurling debate.
No training for me yesterday besides 50 mins on the bike [over 28K actually!}
Then I was offered my boss' job! Jsut for 6 months while I would train up volunteers to take it over, meanwhile I'd run the sessions and ensure that there is a voable product to hand over.
It was quite funny because when I ws told they had found someone I asked if I knew them!
I must say I lean toward a good HM/M differential being optimal for anything other than a near death experience on the sub 4. I did get sub 4 from 1:54:01 and it wasn't something I'd rcommend.
I'm only at 1:51:27 for the half for 2011, we shall see in the marathon buildup, but I am going for sub 4 again despite only 4:06:51 at VLM in April.
So SB, can you do me a series based on the above data? I do have paces I'm working with, that I have to keep looking up actually, would be interested in your prescription though if you have time to humour me.
And I'm still a bit queasy.
I do believe that certain amongst us have not realised their marathon potential, an that that is a common issue, which can stem from a myriad of reasons and combinations, including that you do have to literally throw caution to the winds if you're borderline.
I threw myself down the Highway in 2010 and that was the diffference, apart from fighting round the Isle of Dogs clog of course, so at both junctures I somehow had the confidence to take the risk of whatever was required at the time, and I was lucky not to blow up entirely I guess.
But we are all different, so I reckon that sticking to a pace that will get rather than exceed the result is a very key thing. It made me laugh when I read the famed quote about how marathon runners wake up on the day convinced they can run a minute a mile faster than ever before.
Dogs are all over my local park with multiples being walked by prefessionals! I'm OK with them apart from the ones on those invisible leads, and at distances from the walker that questions all control.
That and the implied you are the foolish one for thinking my dog might bite you thing really wind me up, well slow me down! It's not the biting, it's the tripping over or accidentally kicking the pooch that's the nervosity issue.
Anyway I have to go to work. Pilates was cancelled so I did my HIT session on the bike, will do Park Run on Saturday.
PS I can't see Ten!
Me neither. Blimey its cold this am freezing hoare frost on the five mile cross country I did to work. Took some pics on the camera will have to put them up somewhere. Thanks for those numbers SB thinks the first set are the ones I am going to go for while I am fit and young enough!!!
It's so cold. Think I over did the gym yesterday, not my arms, sholders and back are suffering DOMS. Oh well...
First post Bedford run planed for tomorrow.
I've calculated by paces as:
Longs: 9.01 - 10.15
From RW training pace calculator...
Can't wait to properly start training for Brighton now. Bring on the long runs!
I've started BoD!
Congratulations Reikki!!!! You'll be indispensible by the time six months is up.
This morning have my first DOMS from running that I have had in ages. And that's after my first official marathon training run! Today is my nine mile GA run. I'll go with steady 10:20 pace (5.8mph) on the treadie while monitoring my heart rate. Why the treadmill? Because I'm absolutely useless at sticking to slower paces outside! Fact.
Which reminds me.... must charge my mp3 player and download marathon talk.
How long does it take them to accept an avatar photo? I want my inspirational reminder on all my posts!
I didn't make it out for a run yesterday suppose to be 20M, but on the same session during marathon training I tore my psoas in the rediculous cold so decieded to be christmassy instead.
There was a thread on marathon pace vs half on here earlier inthe year and the conclusion was half plus 20mins as a good rule of thumb. My conversion was rediculous 1:19:52 to 2:43:59 but I was a mjor outlier.
On traing paces these are mine:
Long: 6:35-7:35Easy: 6:35 - 7:05Steady: 5:55 - 6:15Tempo: 5:49 - 5:59VO2 Max: 5:13 - 5:23They actually shocked me
LOL - Choisty's easy pace is my fastest ever.
I assume you mean double the half, plus 20 minutes? ie. 2hr HM = 4:20 marathon?
Ten...yep double HM plus 20mins
Now where is your avatar???
Dunno... I've submitted it twice. 11k in size (ie. tiny), so I don't know what's taking so long.