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and I am not being sarcastic - I genuinely mean it. I am a mother - I wish I could just pray and know they were safe -that I will never be parted from them or my husband, that a kind and loving god will ensure that my life is meaningful and that the things that happen, do so for a reason.....
But wishing it doesn't make it happen. My mother (a sometimes agnostic churchgoer) always said that she envied people with faith. She took me to church as a child so that I could have a chance at believing in god. I didn't understand this till I had children myself.
Gym addict PM'd you
Great thread
GymAddict I really relate to what you're saying. I spent years of my life going to church and considered myself a committed Christian. But I couldn't help but question things, and as time went on I found I had a lot more questions than answers.
So I bought a bike instead!
I would suggest it might be easier to prove a negative than you think.
"I do not have a Ferrari parked outside my house"
Quite straightforward proof.
And a Christlike avatar with a forum name of "TheVicar" ?
Not much in the way of humilty there. Why not "AVicar".? Shurely more apt.
I kind of suspect this may be a weakish form of trolling. May be wrong. Often am.
Chav? Gosh that is so like, last decade.
Example which is non-chavable:
"There is not a copy of the Guardian in my conservatory."
That is a negative which is outstandingly easy to prove, even if there are herds of Ferrari hunting chavs roaming the neighbourhood.
@TheVicar - really good posting, very thought provoking. I like that you've come on here to start a discussion on religion knowing that you would probably get the usual response from the informed people. "it's bollox" is very eloquent I think, also the ferrari analogy is brilliant. If that chap not having a farrari is not proof that God doesn't exist then nothing is.
I was a catholic for a lot of years and went to church every Sunday and I think for a few years I did truely have faith but sadly thinks happen in life that rock you and I wasn't strong enough to believe there were reasons for it. I would never knock anyone for having faith, if anything I envy you for having the strength to dedicate yourself to something you can never have an absolute answer on. Good for you anyway, i've found it a good read for 10 mins or so.
100% wind up.
Have never heard a proper vicar write something as mocking as those opening posts, and certainly never heard some of the "Good stuff" dismissed as rubbish.
Maybe they take a different approach at vicar school these days...
Hi all,
Thanks for the thought provoking posts and the few who enjoy a bit of banter.
Nope Stevie G its not a wind up. I'm just a bloke at 28 years old who can make his own mind up in what he believes. I like to throw things out there and see what comes back. People think Vicar and thing old balding man in his 60's that believe adam and eve were real! But if people took the time to understand the true meaning of what it is to be a Christian they would understand. Love God and Love eachother. In reality that is very simple its all the other stuff that isn't
Thanks loden1 for your story. I always enjoy listening to peoples journey and it was good of you to share that with me,
I like your thought process hope. I found the church complicated and bought some trainers
Bos1, I agree with what you say, but its meant to be used in a light hearted way. Where I come from people always say oop ere comes The vicar and its kinda stuck
"Bos1, I agree with what you say"
perhaps you do not understand what I say, but I sincerely doubt whether you agree with what I say.
Why is the title of this thread in Times Roman when all others are Trebuchet MS
"I was an Athiest until 2 years ago until I studied Theology and Philosophy and the more you learn the more it makes sense."
And there we have it - born again, seen the light and wants to wave the bible at everyone. The OP would be better advised to start a running discussion on a religious forum imho.
If you've studied philosophy and things start making more sense, you're not doing it right.
Oh and I wouldn't blame Robert Powell for portraying Jesus as being a white chap. I think the Italian painters got there a few centuries earlier. Some very interesting musings here as to whether a historical Jesus really existed at all.
Philosophy helps you ask the right questions and from theology comes things like trying to prove what is written in the bible exists and a whole lot of archaeological evidence has come up trumps. Not only that we have impartial evidence from Roman historians and others who had nothing to gain from saying that Jesus existed, Tacitus, Pliny the younger, Suetonius, Celsus to name a few.
Not at all Muttley it really aint like that. It really doesn't hurt exposing it to people who want to read about religion. Cant blame me my posting says may contain religion......What made you read
Pub Phil, it never fails to amaze me the lengths people will go to to try and disprove and discredit religion and everything around it. There's actually way more evidence to the existence of "a historical" Jesus than there is a figure like Julius Caesar, yet his existence is never in any doubt, probably because it doesn't suit any agendas to try and disprove.
The Vicar, I'd like to believe you're for real.... gives some hope for the future in these humanist and miserable times
Without boring you thats the angle I wish to come from Kittenkat. I started a kids church a while back and I live in a town of roughly 8000 people and we had 50 kids come along and they all came back again Sunday just gone. I'm really honestly not trying to convert anybody coz I know that doesn't work. If you're receptive to it you may believe, if your not you won't. The last thing I want is everybody to agree with me and say yup there is a God, life would be very boring. I love chatting with Atheist's as long as they can come at me with a legitimate reason why they don't believe. The comment its just b******s doesn't really help anybody
My soul job is to be there for people who feel there might just be something more to life, a little spark and I can help that grow. My job isn't to convert Dawkin's. I completely understand why people don't believe, because in all honesty its a lot lot easy not to. I can also say I've had huge moments where I thought Na Jesus is like Santa Claus for adults and moments where I think 100% God exists. I see God in people, in you and me. I find it hard to think of him as some bloke sitting on a cloud. Thats not God, God is in all the good things we see day to day, contrary to what the news says. I will also be the first to admit Atheists do good things too and by now you will know my angle on that 
Stevie G,
Good take on things and really nice to hear you say that. Also yes you are correct, many historical figures we kinda presume exist. Problem is Jesus didn't have his face on any coins or plastered on mosaics and the likes. As that wasn't what he was about. Instead he shows himself on the bottom of a coffee mug and on burnt waffles
This thread isn't for people who want to read about religion - they'd go to a religion website for that. It's for one person who wants to spout it.
Nope but but it started off as just sayin Jesus was a long distance athlete. didnt say he was going to save you or that you were going to hell. People have had valid questions and I've tried to answer. Sorry if I offended you
StevieG - A classic case of turning an argument on its head. The article isn't out to disprove the historical existence of Jesus, rather discussing the lack of concrete evidence that would normally be associated with the existence of a real, famous person. We can be fairly sure of the reality of Julius Caesar partly because of the contemporary records of the time, and partly because there isn't any agenda around people needing him to be there and making him up. Unlike Jesus, a character/person who fits in with an age-old tradition of prophets come to save humankind, who might possibly need stories written about "Him" to make the prophecies of the Old Testament come true. (...in conflicting accounts from different people who didn't actually live during his time...)
Muttley - This is a forum for non-running related discussion. I don't see why religion should be an out-of-bounds topic. Feel free to ignore the thread, especially one subtitled "warning contains religion".
Also, as for people going "out of their way" to do stuff, The Holy Bible is probably the most powerful and influential book ever written. Millions of people's careers (academic/religious) are defined by it. I don't think Jesus scholars are going out of their way to come down on one side of the fence or the other. It's just what they do.
i like the thread as its not a bunch of fanaticals of each side hurling abuse...
unlike the bartefoot runners threads or the ipod threads
Philpub,
Well said. Essentially we live in a country, that you could possibly say, is very secular (However Islam is playing a bigger part, which I believe is a great thing) However many people class themselves as religious or non religious. People never have the need to class themselves as a Caesar believer or not. This is why the whole religion thing stirs up such passions, its something everybody can relate to.
True about the Bible many sayings we have today come from the bible. Salt of the earth, eye for an eye, Powers that be, a little bird told me, stumbling block and a hundred others. Shakespeare's plays are hugely influenced by the Bible. Its all around us whether we like it or not. Many people do indeed make a living from the Bible and quite a few theologians do not believe in God. Horses for courses (I dont think that comes from the bible)
Well you know the saying seren nos the 2 things you should never talk about at a dinner party barefoot running and Ipods