Winging It

So most of you will have picked up on some of this, as have been whinging liberally, but was sat in the garden today and really had a proper wobble (actually wasn't sat down but was cutting the grass).

AA goal was set as Brighton Marathon and it was hit with a 3:57 (training/tests indicated 3:48 but had chest infection for three weeks before and 4 weeks after). However very happy with hitting goal of sub-4 for an ex rugby prop forward.

A goal is the Outlaw. With a 12:22 at IM Regensburg I had a sneaky eye on sub 12 as a platinum time.

B goal was 100 mile LDWA event unfortunately positioned 4 weeks in front of the Outlaw. I bailed out at mile 77 with feet that had turned to mush after 24 hours of pounding, the last 14 hours of which it rained. This has left me with a severe ticking off from Chiropodist, blisters through to dermis, well strapped feet and signed off bath time for a week.

So to sum up, I trained well for a marathon in April, got as much biking in between then and Jubilee weekend as I could. This included four 80 mile rides at 16-19 mph averages. With some mid week rides as per the training plan. But nothing over 6-mile runs have been done since the marathon, bar 77 mile effort. Not much biking in the last two weeks. Swimming weekly with masters for 1:15 and some solid 45-60 min sessions mid week I have little fear of the swim. Although haven't made it OW this year.

Last year I was sitting here happy with 95%+ of plan nailed

So the question - how bad is the Outlaw going to be?


Happy I can do the swim. Reasonably comfortable that I can go sub 6:30 or sub 6:00 on the bike (IMR 6:02). What is the run or walk going to be like (ran 4:50 at IMR). Clearly have the endurance to slog it out for 24-hours, so know I can finish.

If anyone can offer any experience of what to expect on the run and I can get mindset in place to cope with it.

Yours wibblingly


P.S. - Race plan for next year is going to be better planned.






  • I think how bad your feet are will dictate the run rather than any fitness or lack of ....

  • To be fair the Chirpodist was a nice lady. I am not sure she has run a marathon, walked 50 miles on a blister, or done an Ironman - or maybe she just never mentioned it.

    Bailed out on the Sunday morning. By Thursday I was on bike, following week I had been on bike several times including a couple of 2-hour turbo sessions and a couple of commutes to work (1-hour 17 mile each way). Walking was a little painful biking OK. I didn't see Chirpodist until 13 days after event and that was mainly to have hard skin ridges removed below the blister, which were causing the mild discomfort due to odd foot shape. Due to daughters swimming lesson and Village Day blocking high street I had to run 0.5 mile to get there on time. They aren't good but they don't reduce me to tears with each step. Although admit that after 20 miles they may do!image

  • You will have time well spent dressing them in T1 or T2 would be my guess

  • It's all flat, as far as I'm aware M.eface.  With the exeriences you've already had and this years preparation (despite the feet) I think you'll break 12 hours easy!  But maybe not if you keep carrying around those sand bags!!  image

  • Mention a dodgy knee ang you are certain to go sub 12 image

    In all seriousness start the run at an easy maintainable pace and see what happens

    Be mentally prepared for a walk and a 16 hr times, or a dnf

    Get you head around best case / worse case, and then do your best....,

    There is always next year

    Oh and don't pray for rain
  • Run was flat at IMR and bike was flat apart from 1 hill and 1 upslope on each of two laps - so mostly flat.

    Sandbagging at IMR saw me hope for sub 13 on my first IM with a platinum time of 12:30 and hit 12:22. Weather for me was perfect with a drizzly 16 degrees. The day before was 28 and sunny and had me terrified and hiding in an ice cream. Although feet would like it dry this year.

    OC - DNF is unlikely bar a puncture in the feet. If I can go 7:30 off the bike then even walking home at 4mph sees me home in 14  hours. A 7-hour bike would leave this at 15 hours.Cut-off  appears to be 11pm which is 17 hours. Can't see where I could lose 3-4 hours unless I end up crying.

    Best long bike this year and last year are about the same (18 mph and 80 miles with a half day at work with a breakfast starter of 17miles/1 hour). But last year had more depth around it.

    Will plan food for 7-hours on bike rather than 6 ( I eat a lot), using aid stations as part of plan but will need a good set of nutrition bars. The extra couple of bars won't exactly kill me on weight.

    Already planning a slightly enhanced foot care regime at T2 and extra stuff in pocket to care for feet. I honestly think feet will be OK and that limiter will be lack of IM specific training in early part of season and lack of run training in last part of season.

    Maybe I am just making up for absence of wibble last year!




  • Last year I did London in a PB of 3:22. I didn't run much at all between then and Outlaw - let alone do 77 miles!

    My cycling was limited to a few 20-40 mile rides before London, then outside of ONE 350 mile week in France at an average of c. 15mph, I completed just 5 rides of between 45 and 60 miles afterwards.  There were a few turbo sessions in there as well, mainly because my bike handling skills were poor at best until I lived on the bike in France.

    There was quite a lot of swimming done as I swam most mornings but my big fear was the bike, and I'd not really done anything much in the way of brick training. 

    Somehow I managed 17mph on the bike for a 6:28 split. 1:15ish on the swim and a 12:26 finish time....

    By rights I was way out of my depth. But NEVER underestimate a solid mindset and sheer bloody-mindedness.

    MTFU. You'll be fine! image

    Race day strategy: Think how fast you want to go, and then just go that fast.

  • Are there any serious chances of doing any long term damage to your feet if you race?....i know MTFU covers most injuries but tif there is a chance of doing something seriuos then i would look at the long picture.

  • last year I did too much.........the blisters that i picked up at a tough ultra between IM became infected in an off road marathon a few weeks before IMW.........had to have antibiotics and cream........thought i was ok for IMW but my legs didn't agree when i got on the bike........

    so i would be very careful to avoid any infections with your feet look after them totally..............if you were affected like me you would still finish just no PB's..unfortunately for me as I was a lot slower to start with it resulted in missing the bike cutoff........

    so just prepare yourself that you might not get that PB...............or you could just be sandbagging and go sub 11image

  • Put the calculator away and take each day as it comes, then each hour, then each moment on the day. Erm ... Grasshopper. image
  • A strapping strong lad like you will be fine m.eface,  sounds like you're mentally prepared enough already for it being tough,  as you say you'll get through it and it could be that an A goal is hit for Outlaw as well.

    I'm with KK in saving a bit for the run where possible,  I've not yet had an IM run that I've been happy with so am going to try and hold something back for the run this year and run the first 10 miles at a very easy pace.

    For this year have already accepted that Outlaw could go reasonably or might be a total mess,   like you I had a Spring mara A goal and haven't done a great deal of running since,  and then LeJog B goal where endurance cycling was the key rather than high intensity.  So Outlaw is just a fun day out for me in advance of a party on the Mondayimage

  • SlowEngineer (but quick runner or so it seems) - thanks gives me some hope that the legs should still know how to run. 77 miles was 90% walking which may be good practice for Outlaw.

    Jaffa, I've not even had a standalone marathon that has gone that well. Even brighton I was on 3:46 pace at mile 21 and then legs just caved in and mindset switched to play it safe and come home sub-4 with a walk/run as that the was the target in the first place. Only had on IM marathon and it sort of went to plan. Solid run/walk strategy for first half and then added more walk as required, quite a bit more walk.

    Only way I can change pace is to add more walk. My slowest run is about 9mm after which it is too much effort for little forward motion. My walking produces some 13:xx minute miles. So maybe consider 4:1 rather 9:1 in marathon to slow average pace. Preferred pace is about 8:00mm during mara training. Quicker than this was hard, slower than this wasn't much easier. I think many of us have effiicient paces.

    JJ - you are wise old man, but oddly not as hairy, and with better legs. Agree it will be what it is. Are grasshoppers available at aid station?

    FF - long term damage I don't think so. Chirpodist seemed to accept that I was doing it but I did state I am then not doing anything till autumn and having 2-6 weeks off training post IM. She seemed OK with this.

    Seren - yep infections are a concern. Had planned to go OW at least once in the taper but have decided to cancel that due to added risk. Having a good break after IM to let body recover for a while. Will still swim on Saturdays and run a bit but not having a training plan to not follow will be nice.

    Some very helpful stuff.

    KK - your answer next


    <span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">KK,


    <span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';"> Why a 100 miler. Because I am thick, a pirate, or foolish.



    <span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">My entry into running came from doing LDWA challenge walks. Had done a 30-mile Ultra before I had done a 10km. Then I did some 10kms, HMs, and a marathon as well as a number of 30 milers. Have also done 4<span>  50 mile events so the 100 seemed the next logical step. The annual LDWA 100 was on home turf this year so seemed to be the obvious one to go for. The section I had to do in the dark was on mostly known paths and although very good at navigation it is still easier if you know the route and/or general direction you are headed. Plus less time getting to/from made it easier to get permission.



    <span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">Have since decided it may have made it easier to quit as could phone the wife and get picked up and be home in <10-minutes. Meant I could see the kids etc. If I was a further distance away that draw wouldn’t be there. Even if I got picked up by the body wagon I would need a night’s sleep before driving back. So Cornwall next year seems a good option, and the route looks great. May bank holiday leaves plenty of time before Challenge Henley in September.



    <span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">Hopefully mental strength will hold but 100miler was first ever DNF in any event over any distance. OK slight difference between 100 miler and just an IM but it rattled the brain for a few days.



    <span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">Not really worried about DNF just wanted to prepare for what I may face.



    <span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">Not a natural runner’s build I always lose places on the run. The bike is most natural strength for me but I am a bit of a grinder/big gear pusher. Will try to watch this isn’t excessive. Then the run is three laps. Of slightly different lengths, and the out and back allows this to be split further. Probably will try to split into something close to HM, 10km and then the last 10km should see me home.



    <span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">Thanks for allowing me a wibble.

    <span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">M.eface


  • SteadyCJSteadyCJ ✭✭✭

    Well if you end up run/walk, join me I will be doing 4:1 at 13:xx pace. Or my nattering will drive you mad and you will run off to the finish to escape.

  • HappychapHappychap ✭✭✭

    Dave, have faith mate.  You are a very strong bloke (mentally and physically) and really pacing is key here.  Lots of wise words.  Leave the PB plans at home until it looks like they *may* be a possibility.  It seems that, the swim is the swim, but if you cycle smart rather than grinding the big gears it will pay dividends.  From memory, the cycle course is relatively flat with some long sweeping downs that you can welly, undulating bits that need you to be canny with the gears and uphill where you can sit and grind it out.

    Maybe using your HR monitor on the bike may help?


  • HappychapHappychap ✭✭✭

    And if in doubt ask Toucs, he managed a PB off the back of one swim (really), a few bikes and one long run at IMR.

  • Toucs was powered by bee stings though wasn't he? image

  • kittenkat wrote (see)

    Cornwall, down my neck of the woods that is!

    And as it is LDWA price is a bargain as always.

  • HC,

    HRM on garmin only tells me my hear rate is 200+ at the moment. Not sure what is up with it. Tried washing it and all sorts. New battery would be next idea.

    And I know I'll finish was just trying to find out who had done similar and what the results were. SlowEngineer seemed to have done pretty much same plan as me (with 1 massive bike week rather than 1 massive run) and come out OK.


  • Yep - but shhh they let you run and some of the events even welcome runners, later starts etc.

    And the events are a bargain. I do a 30 mile that as a member costs £3 and non-members £5. The 100 typically costs £60-£80 and includes support for up to 48 hours, all food at checkpoints. It may be possible to recover entire entry in food.

  • Meface, I'm in a very similar boat for Austria (same day as Outlaw). No open water, not enough biking, unsure where my run is at and an original  goal of sub 12.00.

    For me, I've abandoned the sub 12 goal. Realised it just wasn't on when I couldn't stick to IM HR on the bike at a recent double Olympic race. So for me, I have set my HRs and I'm going to stick to them, no matter how slow that means I have to go until I am on the last lap of the marathon when survival will be my primary goal. I think it will result in somewhere between 12 and 13 hours but honestly, just finishing will also do fine and if I don't finish, ah well, more time in the pub afterwards! But I believe that unless I have a major mechanical on the bike or I hit severe gastro issues, then I should finish OK.

  • same situation here but refuse to let the wibbles get the better of me.

    Original goal of sub 11 for Outlaw. Training was going really well until 4 months ago when I sprained my ankle in one of these muddy assault course races. Thought I would be able to limp for a week or so and get back on it but that wasnt the case. I haven't ran on the road since... have ran about 6 times on an anti-gravity treadmill but have only done intervals and no longer than 45 minutes. I am thinking about doing the local parkrun this week just to get an idea of how much pain I am or am not going to put myself through on race day.This also led to me getting ITB issues on the bike, this hasnt hurt for a couple of weeks so it is possible it has cleared up.... but it means I have done little long distance bike training. My general speed has rapidly increased, but I have only biked greater than 60 miles about 3/4 times and everytime was with friends at a much more leisurely pace than 'race' pace. My guess is I may end up blowing up at about 80 miles. Have got a lot quicker in the pool, but have only swam OW 3 times and have done nothing but interval training, so lack the endurance and start to ache after a while... have not done anything near the distance but we will see on the day.

    My new aim is to be on the run after 7 hours and 20 minutes, and then just finish. If I can finish in time for a few beers afterwards and am able to do so then I will finish with a massive smile on my face. If I have to pull out after trying to run/walk for 20 minutes... then oh well, my own fault for trying to complete when I should perhaps have pulled out. The one thing I don't like is not knowing how it is going to be... I could potentially still race sub12.... then again if the biking and running dont go well I could be chasing cut offs!! Hence the idea to run on the road on saturday!

    either way...

    ABSOLUTELY NO WIBBLES!!! Not yet, not next week, not on race day!!! image

  • Meface...........i'm thinking of doing their 100 miler the year after in 2014 when it comes to wales..if i manage that i will go and tackle the lakeland 100...........i'm having some long term plans going many races to do .so little time before the body gives up totallyimage

  • Just to add to those of us winging it, if it is any consolation I am unable to run more than about 6.5 to 7 km at a time without my knee starting to go on me (by that I mean pain inside the joint and swelling). I have to run walk anything longer. This is why I used to say "I'm never doing an Ironman", then I changed it to "I'll do an Ironman when I can give myself enough time to walk the marathon". After doing the bike for a relay eam last year I reckoned it would be achievable at Outlaw. When I entered I fully expected to be getting off the bike and have a very long walk ahead of me!

    Just to add to my pre-existing woes, I managed to come off my mountain bike a little over 3 weeks ago, grazing and badly bruising my right ankle, knee, thigh, forearm, upper arm and shoulder. I can still feel the bruising in my thigh and  aroundthe bones at the knee (coincidently the duff one). More worryingly I did a 10 k trail race about 10 days ago and overdid it, didn't run/walk. 

    As a result I've had to cut short my last 2 "long" bike rides short, due to the pain in my knee, by quite some margin and have not managed a training ride of over 110 km. On the plus side the longest ride I've done had nearly double the amount of climbing that I reckon the outlaw bike course has and my fitness levels felt absolutely fine during the longer rides and the race!

    Come race day, what will be will be and I'm prepared for a very long, and very painful day!! image Now where are the painkillers!!

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