Overdone it?

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  • Okay so last week training was Monday 4M easy followed by a Lactate session on Tuesday which, despite a lower abdominal/groin strain I decided to do as the pace was progressive and wanted to establish what I could and couldn't do with injury.

    Session was 3M E to Steady, 1M MP, strides, 2M at HM, 60 secs jog,1M at Tempo, 60 secs jog, One mile at 10k, CD

    Paces came out 8:18,7:54,7:19//6:55//6:39,6:21//6:21//6:19

    As posted above decided next day that groin needed a rest so have taken next week off (was also doing a fair bit of travelling with work so made sense).

    Total Miles for week 13.8

    Groin feels better so going for an Easy Run tomorrow morning - no plan on distance - might be 5, might be 10 just whatever I feel like - then if everything okay I'll get back into 'proper' training.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Good luck for a trouble free run today Skinny.

  • 'Only 10 seconds' I checked my watch as I went past the 400m to go sign and it showed 38:3x or something, can't remember exactly what, but I still thought I could do it even at that stage -  Told myself I do 400 reps in 1:21-22. 

    Looks like a good session on Tues.  Have tried a few progressive runs in the past, but generally keep it relatively simple ie I think the last one was 5M easy, 5M MP, 2M HMP, 1M cd.  I quite enjoy them as I sometimes like to have something to focus on. 

    I've also noticed that some of your interval sessions are quite complicated with various distances and paces wrapped up into one session.  Again I tend to keep these simple, just 6-8x800m or 3-4x1M, stuff like that.  I just wondered what benefit you saw in the more complicated sessions.

    4M easy last night.  Legs are still a bit tired, but I'm sure they'll loosen up once I get going.

  • Hi Mace - thanks - it was okay but has stiffened up a bit during day - in my hotel room with a stiff groin - double entendre city!

    Lou - thought you were resting for 2 days?

    All the sessions I do are just whatever Stevie prescribes - my job is just to run them and monitor and report on injuries so I guess he needs to answer that question properly. I presume a progressive interval session makes me stronger towards the end of a race?

    One thing I would say is that when I am doing them if the next interval is different to the one before it (even if it is faster!) then somehow that makes it easier mentally to do the current one - not sure why.

    Hope 5 miler tonight goes well.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • I was going to rest, but then Mrs D. started going on about heavy legs, and the dog needed walking so I thought I'd go for a jog.  The legs felt heavy anyway.

    It was a small club race and everyone set off at a ferocious pace.  Despite almost 3 miles warm up by half a mile in I was wheezing and slowed up a bit to get back on to my target pace.  Well I slowed up a bit too much and then couldn't seem to get it back again.  Finished fast with a little race for the line and as well as the PB (this being my first non-XC 5 miler) I got a new Max HR so I guess I can't complain too much.

    Anyway official time was 32:16 and splits were 6:06, 6:38, 6:25, 6:29, 6:20, (plus 0:23/ 0.07miles at 5:35).

    Since then I've done Thurs: 4M easy, Fri: 8M @ 7:52.

    Hope the groins are feeling better - probably needs a bit of ointment.

  • Hi Lou - good effort - my 5 mile time was 31:17 but Garmin measured it as dead on 5 miles so that would take me out to about 31:40 on your race route so we are very evenly matched and you'll be catching up at the moment while I decide what to do with this groin thing.

    Last week - 7 miles easy Wed, 3 miles easy Thursday - groin stiffened up after both as day went on despite stretching etc. Total weekly mileage 10 miles.

    In addition I did do a 7 mile fell walk up Coniston Old Man plus ridge walk on Father's Day which stopped me doing another run but was a great day out with family.

    In a bit of a quandary as to what to do with groins - got physio appointment on 9th July which still seems long way off - decided to try and do 40 miles all easy running this week and see where I am by end of week (if I make end of week). 4 weeks on Sunday till my 10k so would still ahve time for a little bit of quality training before then if I am okay but think the shorter stuff is banged on the head for now.

    Talking to other people about it a lot of people seem to suffer from tight/stiff groins and just continue with their sport despite that so perhaps I am just being a wuss!

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Skinny - wise decision i say, sounds like you should be sticking to easy. Treat it as a recovery week and hopefully that will get you ready to go again. Don't want to be scuppering all your good work.

  • I hope the groins a coming along - easy running seems like a sensible approach.  That's a long time to wait for the physio though.  Last (only) time I saw one he was able to fit me in within a few days.

    Are you doing any excercises with the stretching? I'm not sure how appropriate it woudl be, but I remember from my kickboxing days that we used to train the adductors by standing with a partner holding your foot straight out to the side (or on their shoulder but I was much more flexible in those days) we would then push down for  a couple of seconds and release and keep pulsing the pressure for a minute or two then change sides.

    Did long hilly trail run with Mrs D on Sunday.  Only 12 miles, but with our navigation  and getting chased by cows and the dog refusing to go near a clay pidgeon shoot it took us 2hrs45.  Possibly the longest run I've ever done in terms of time.

    Followed that on Monday with a game of 7-a-side football.  First time I've played in years and we got hammered.

    Since then, and I'm not sure whether its sundays mammoth run, mondays footy or the warm humid weather, but I've felt knackered.  Had a rest day tues, then tried a 3M tempo on Weds, but cut it short at 2.5M and even that was averaging less than HMP.  

    Easy 4M today with a few strides then I'll try an interval session on Fri.

    I have the Wyre Forrest Trail HM on 7th so I want to get a decent 15 miler in this weekend.

  • Hi Mace - yeah I'm starting to worry about going backwards - if still not fit by end of this week I will have to start researching how quickly the fast twitchers go backwards. Hope your running is going okay.

    Hi Lou - 2 hrs 45 sounds like forever for 12 miles but hilly and off road takes a long time. I would imagine it's the football as that will have used a stack of muscles that have been quite happily lying dormant for the last 7 years.

    Still you will definitely be catching me up as I'm still on Easy Street.

    5 on monday and 10 on Wed - groin stiff afterwards but doesn't seem to be any worse for the easy runs so if still the smae end of this week will try something a little harder next week.

    I'm doing a stretch and strengthen where you hold your ankles with your elbows inside your knee and push inwards for 5 secs then downwards for 10 secs * 5 and I'm doing that 3 times a day plus ball between my knees and ankles and push in twice a day - that feels like enough as I'm worried without seeing a physio that pushing too hard will make it worse rather than better.

    Physio is on NHS so perhaps you went private?

    Enjoy your 15 miler at weekend - I love the really long runs as you can really get somewhere.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Just a very quick note to say I spent 2-3hrs reading through this from start to finish yesterday and found it utterly inspiring!

    Unfortunately I'm a million miles away from your level Skinny but to read through and see the motivation and the achievement of your goals was fantastic. If you ever doubt the value of spending time posting on this, at the very least you can have the knowledge that you have inspired one slightly overweight, very under-fit bloke to stick at it!

    Also a quick mention to StevieG...again my lack of ability/experience/knowledge means I have no basis from which to judge but the advice, support and encouragement you have given, all totally selflessly to assist a stranger to meet their goals is something to be very proud of. Not many people would be so willing to give their time as willingly as you have.

    Thank you to both for a great read, I will be lurking and awaiting updates from now on!

     

  • Easy week for me Skinny as i dropped the 2 normal quality sessions .I was due a cut back and i wanted to be fresh for an attempt on my 5k pb at today's parkrun. Also my right hammy didn't feel 100% at the start of the week so thought best play it safe.

    Well, you reckoned i had more in the tank after a 20:21 about a month ago and sure enough i blasted that today with a 19:13. Pacing again shows that maybe i can chip a bit more off that in another 3/4 weeks and maybe get a 19:xx ....

    How did your week end up ?

     

  • MBAR - thanks for your comments - dedicating 2-3 hours to read about me running and training - wow! (hopefully you picked up something useful from SG postsimage).

    If you are looking for something else inspirational google 'Running on a Raisin' for parkrunfan's blog of his running journey - he started by walking 50 miles every week from about 15 stones and was winning parkruns in about 12 months.

    Mace - great timeimageimage - not sure what you mean at the end when you say you could turn your 19:13 into a 19:xx - did you mean 18:xx?? Anyway you certainly know how to thoroughly depress someone with a recent 19:15 PB who isn't able to do any quality training at the moment!image

    Last week 35.2 miles made up of 4 easy runs from 5 to 12 miles. Groin stiff after every one but not getting any better or worse with running. Am going to try one more easy 35 - 40 mile week and then may scrap the 10k training and just do HM training but still run the 10k races within that and hope to scrape a sub 40.

    Bit disappointing and feel a little demotivated at the moment but I'll keep going and hopefully it will clear up. Got lots of sh1t going on at work too which is also not helping.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • mbar - PRF's blog is fascinating stuff. I've notice that a surprising number of the very quick guys on these fora started running to lose weight.

    mace - that is serious improvement over a month.  Particularly as you've been running a while. Do you put that improvement down to anything in particualar? Because if you could bottle it...

    Wasn't able to do my lunchtime session last friday so did 8 miles off road with the dog: Quicker than normal as I was hungry, but not too hard.  The I realised we would be busy all day Sunday  and most of Saturday so I needed to do my long run first thing Saturday. 

    Did 16 miles in total approximately 1/3 fields, 1/3 towpath and 1/3 road and it was really hard work: I stopped at around 11miles to 'get a drink' from a local shop, but really I need a rest.  Everything past about 10 miles was a struggle.

    4 easy mile yesterday makes 38 miles in the bag (plus one game of football - never again!) though it has felt like one of the toughest training weeks I've done so far.

  • Hi Lou - that Friday Saturday double looks hard work - I'm sure the fact you stuck at it will benefit you on 7th - my 12 on Sunday felt surprisingly hard as went fellwalking on Saturday (after my game of golf) and it was a steep up and down so legs were feeling it a bit next day.

    I think I said earlier in thread how funny it is that Golf used to be my exercise of the week and now I count it as a rest day even with a fell walk thrown in afterwards!

    What kind of dog do you have? i've got a 6 year old labradoodle but after 3 miles he's had enough so can't go out running with him. If I'm running before work I often have to do my run, then come back and walk the dog which is not too bad in the summer but was a real pain in the winter.

  • Skinny - easy to say it but maybe consider resting for a week if it's not getting any better. Especially with the work situatuion ? Or at least take a couple of extra rest days and then test it on a shorter run, maybe a 2-3 miler ? And yes, i meant a 18:xx ... must have been my sub-conscious telling me " don't be so ridiculous image "

    Lou - i've been running seriously for just over a year and did Brighton Marathon in April in 3:16 ( before that the shortest race i did was 10M) . I did my first parkrun about 3 weeks after Brighton in 21:xx and since then have been recovering from the marathon still i suspect and am now seeing the benefit of the training. The 19:13 is the first time i've gone for it properly. So i don't think it's down to anything special, more that the previous pb was soft. Having said that, McMillan points to a 20:1x off my mara time.

    Recently i've been doing 6x 800 @ 6:08m/m reps on a Tuesday and a 6 mile sub LT run on a Thurs aiming for around ave marathon HR, LSR 14-16 Sunday, +3 easy runs. Last 5 weeks have been 43-49-52-50-40

    Re your 16 miler, that's on the heavy side ( especially with 1/3 through fields ) for a 38M week, so maybe hard work from 10 is kind of expected ?

    Edit : the reason i've been targetting 6:08 pace reps is because that's what came out for the HR i was targetting ie ave of 90% of max.

  • Mace - I'll ignore your rest comment for now like the stupid runner that I am! (I have also already tried resting it for a week a few weeks ago and it didn't really have any positive effect).

    Looking at your training last few weeks I can see how you have now got a faster 5k time than me - you are running 5 to 10 miles a week more than me with two full quality efforts - one of the things I do like about running is that it is a very honest sport in that your results (certainly in temrs of personal improvement) reflect directly the level of effort you put into your training.

    Keep up the good work (the frustrating thing is that reading your last 5 weeks incentivises me to up my training effort then I remember that I'm not 100% and am struggling to even do basic training!image)

  • Skinny, i think i'd probably be the same and would just pray for it to go. If a week's rest didn't work then maybe you have to try and run through it. image The alternative is more rest than a week but that's a horrible thought isn't it image

    To make you feel better, my parkrun is a bit on the short side by about 10 seconds so you're still quicker image

  • Mace, Lou - whereabouts in country do you live?

  • I'm in East Kent

  • Mace - I don't normally do 16 miles and, in fact, this time I was aiming more for 15 miles but must ahve been a bit lazy when I plotted the route on mapmy run.  Normall weekend run tends to be around 12-13 miles, though I have done 14-15 before and felt fairly comfortable with it.  I think struggleing last weekend was definitely due to the 8 miler the night before.  24 miles in a little over 14 hrs.

    Looks like a good schedule you've got going there.  But your 800m paces look a little slower than mine.  If you base them on that shiney new 5k pb I bet you'll feel the difference.

    Skinny - I'm in Warwickshire.  Dog is a bit of a mixture: Mostly collie/german shepherd.  She is a rescue dog so we're not sure how old but probably around 4 years now.  She's developing dysplasia in her hips (common in german shepherd apparently) but she can still cope with a reasonable mileage.  She came with us on our epic 12 miler the other week, but I normally don't take her further than about 7-8 miles.  She can be very slow in warm weather though.

    I seem to have developed somthing in the outside of my calf.  First noticed it as a very slight bruised feeling after football last week and assumed I'd just been kicked or something.  But it is getting worse - I would probabaly describe it as a pain now and suspect it might be a strain.  I was hoping to do a parkrun this weekend, but I might take it easy for a few days and see how it develops

  • Right - am in something of a depressed panic - nothing has actually changed but that is the point - so I have stopped running and added a 4th stretching session to each day plus an additional adductor stretch and glute stretch. Am on the train to Birmingham for a two day exhibition snore fest that I could do without and have left my trainers at home.

    When I get back I am going to do one of three things.

    a) Start easy running again.

    b) Keep resting

    c) Go out and blast a proper training session and see what happens - this stuck in am I injured or not limbo land is driving me nuts (however c) is the least likely option of the 3!!

    You two are stretching my UK geography a bit but unless we find ourselves in the London Marathon together a smackdown doesn't sound very likely - then again if you live in East Kent you are pretty detached from everyone (and I'm saying that living in Cumbria!!).

    Lou hope the calf thing is nothing - there's always some litle niggle to worry about but I think we all know when it feels like something that amy get worse.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Frustrating time Skinny.

    The way I get through such periods, is to forget all races, forget all quality, and just think I'm in rehab mode.

    Any targets can be postponed, and it's simply a dull case of finding the exact key stuff from a physio, and systematically doing that 3times a day, whilst keeping the easy running.

    In time you'll find you'll be strong enough to ease the runs up in length, and then add the quality in.

    A few weeks of that and you'll usually find you can pick up where you left off fitness wise.

  • Okay its a full year (and 386 posts - not all by me) since my first post on here so thought I would do an anniversary post.

    A year ago I hoped to get inside 1:35 for an HM but I was worried I had overdone it in training.

    Now I have run a 1:29 HM and have overdone it in training! Prior to the groin niggle I had been hoping very optimistically that I might push 1:25 in an October HM - now we'll just have to see when/if I get fit again - fingers crossed it won't be too long.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Been excellent progress over those 12 months nevertheless, Skinny.

    Hope the groin niggle doesn't keep you out of the game for too long, thanks to you and Stevie for what's been a very educational thread for this newbie, and look forward to seeing your progress over the next year too.

    Good luck. image

  • Happy Anniversary!

    You'll be back at it soon enough Skinney. Physio won't be able to cure it, but should hopefully be able to give you some reassurance that you are doing the right thing and perhaps give you an estimate of how long it will take.

    Speaking of physios - I think I've narrowed my problem down to the area of the peronus longus, which runs down the side of the calf.  I haven't run since a tempo session Tuesday which is when I realised it might be a problem.  I've done a couple of strength sessions this week, including calf raises which felt fine, but I tried specific stretching and foam rollering last night which seems to have exacerbated it so it is now quite painful.

    So I think its time for a physio appointment.  I don't have the patience to wait for an NHS appointment, but I know a good local guy.

  • Had an hour on the bike this morning for the first time in ages. Just over 16 miles in 59 mins. How long does an hundred mile tour stage take them?

     

  • Lou, what I've found these days with getting physio, is make sure you've tried (or can tell the doc) you've done a bit of rest and NSAIDs, and stress to the doc what really helps is physio. (Docs being experts of general stuff, but not specific stuff)

    Then instead of waiting for the letter that comes from the physio centre, ring the physio place the second the doc has sent your form off.

    I find that can cut about 3-4 weeks of the wait off.

    Then once you're on the NHS books, you have the re-assurance that you're on there until they fix you. Rather than that uncomfortable feeling you've lashed £30 away for not a lot.

  • Okay - no running at all last week - took Mace comments in even if I responded I would ignore - am going to try a super easy 3 tonight and see the reaction.

    Lou - good luck with the calf. Re the bike 16 miles in an hour sounds pretty good to me whatever the pro cyclists do - sounds lik you could do a duathlon without embarrassing yourself.

    Hopefully next weeks post will have some running miles in it.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Sooner that physio rolls around the better.

    I had a similar goin thing in 07. Eventually I got cheesed with it, and decided not to run until it went.

    Saw a physio and she said it'd never get back to normal with that approach, so she gave me strengthening and said carry on running.

    Eventually as good as new.

    Hope your advice is the same.

  • 2.6 and a 3.4 last week for a total of 6 Super easy miles.

    5 done this morning including two steady paced miles just to test the groins before tomorrow so i know where I am at.

    Physio tomorrow at 11am - fingers crossed they say run through it.

    Today should be start of my HM training so my whole year hangs on the physio appointment.image 

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