Overdone it?



  • Skinny Fetish Fan wrote (see)

    Anyone who has run or watched track races will be familiar with 800m runners finding themselves in a slow run race in the wrong position coming of the final bend and having to squeeze, push, chop and change their direction and speed to try and move forward for the last 100m - well that pretty much describes the 13.25 miles of my GNR experience.

    So race target was first 7 miles Easy to Steady, 3 miles at MP, 3 miles at HMP.

    I actually ran 1 mile Easy, 5 miles steady, 3 miles at MP, 3 miles at HMP, 1 mile at 10k and the last 0.25 miles at 5:36 pace (sprint finish pace???)

    At around 5 miles it just started getting slightly easier to run but up until that point we were running on both sides of the dual carriageway; at 5.5 miles they combine it on to one side and the whole race squeezes up again.

    Apart from the fact I was surrounded by runners which always makes running at Easy pace difficult the main problem was that through the whole race I was going faster than all the people in front of me so I kept having to speed up to squeeze through gaps, then slow down behind walls of people, then sprint, then jog on the spot, then sprint - pacing nightmare.

    Also the wind was generally behind so that helped the pace along. Generally judging effort I was comfortable throughout the race - my breathing only got above silent on mile 11 up the hill at HMP. Didn't stop when I finished but just ran my warm down mile back to the metro to get home.

    Total time 1:32:30 for 1379th - mile splits 7:51, 7:28, 7:29, 7:24, 7:27, 7:06, 6:55, 6:45, 6:53, 6:35, 6:33, 6:26, 6:14, 5:36 for last 0.25 mile

    One final point - if this had been a training run I would be quite excited by paces I hit, but obviously I had the race adrenaline etc - based on yesterday I think a HM at HMP is maybe possible but its going to be a painful experienceimage

    Total Miles for week 31.25 of which above was only real quality.



  • Haha - I get to submit a race report - YAY!image

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Bob- good going. Just think, if you had stuck with raod racing you would probably need to be posting a fairly consistent set of 38.xx 10k's to get to the same place.

    Off to physio lunchtime. will get her to look at my hip niggle. Fairly light 4 x 8 minutes at threshold then awaits this evening.

    Good luck Tonight, Lit.

  • /members/images/673230/Gallery/Capture_113.PNG

    Only update this week is Bob flying round 2 laps of the track in 70 secs a go meaning his WAVA leaps up. If he persuades lots of you to do track stuff I'll start up a separate track top trumps but at the moment I don't think many of us run on the red stuff?

  • Skinny - Thanks for the update, and no - much as it would be nice to see it eventually, a track table would be a pretty pointless exercise for now I think. Plenty more race reports to come from you in future. image

    DT - A 'light' 32 minutes at threshold? Does...not...compute. Particularly when you're already knackered and niggled. McMillan calls 10k and 5k equivalent times of about 37:45 and 18:10 from my 800m time by the way! image Was looking at my new theoretical training paces based on that...and bar the odd low volume blast around the track, theoretical they will remain for now. image Lit - Have you and SG adjusted your paces off the back of your 17:55 for 5k?

    Just been watching some of the Europeans over lunchtime, and the Spanish steeplechaser Garcia took an horrendous fall over the final hurdle - total face plant...ooooof! image

  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭

    Thanks Skinny, I'll try to make sure I arrive at the start in good time and have been to the toilet beforehand.

    Further to the discussions yesterday on acidic diets etc, I emailed the people who did the testing with me at Loughborough Uni and they've comeback with the following thoughts, which you may or may not find interesting...

    Diet & Stress fractures...

    A no. of factors can influence the development of stress fractures (i.e. training, footwear, terrain), and yes nutrition can play a role. There is research which suggests that an increased acidity of our diet may adversely affect bone health - however this has been carried out in
    older women and specifically refers to cola (Tucker, Katherine L. “Colas, but not other carbonated beverages, are associated with low bone mineral density in older women: The Framingham Osteoporosis Study 1,2,3.” Am J Clin Nutr October 2006 vol. 84 no. 4 936-942). Nevertheless, cola is very acidic (pH ~3) due to its phosphoric acid content, and the study found that those who drank cola on a daily basis had a ~5% reduction in bone mass density - which may contribute to an increased risk of stress fracture, stemming from that fact that more calcium is indeed released from bones in order to retain optimal blood pH. However, in reality, the amount that this would contribute to the development of stress fractures would be fairly minimal - with more important factors playing a greater role.

    Carbon Dioxide in the blood from exercise (marrow's question)...

    With strenuous, intense exercise the body produces high levels of carbon dioxide along with H+ ions (formed from the dissociation of blood lactate). This makes it very difficult for the body to regulate blood pH. Blood pH has been shown to get down to levels as low as 6.8 during exhaustive exercise (normal levels are between 7.35-7.45) - this level
    of acidosis is associated with nausea, headache, dizziness, in addition to
    discomfort and pain within the active muscles. The body will work to regulate pH back to normal though through chemical buffers, pulmonary ventilation and renal function.

  • No, it was just about at the fast end of the highly scientific zone, Bob.

  • Blimey - so you were already working to comparable zones then, Lit. I'm going to stick with my 10k PB for setting everything for Recovery to at least LT paces for now. Most of my recent easy paced running has even dropped out of the bottom end of my Recovery Pace zone per McMillan.

    Tommy - Interesting stuff. 

  • Tommy - thanks - all interesting stuff - does that mean you can now get the answers to all our scientific type questions?

    I finished the chapter last night and basically what it was saying about wheat is that our diets used to be meat and plants before grains were introduced to it. Meat - acid - balanced by plants - alkali. Once grains (acid) were introduced to our diets and now form such a substantial part of our diets many of us are in a constant state of mild acidosis and hence our bodies have to deal with that.

    I don't drink fizzy drinks even though my job is dependent on an ever growing consumption of drinks from cans.image 

  • Big-Bad-Bob wrote (see)

    Blimey - so you were already working to comparable zones then, Lit. . 

    Well, I did that marathon, remember?

  • Surely grains were introduced long enough ago for us to have seen some evolutionary adaptation, though, Skinny?

    I just had some diet coke. I like to live on the edge.

    PS: Bob, looking back, I now remember we changed the zones slightly after that last parkrun (run at 5:52 pace), with 5k becoming 5:47-5:52 instead of the previous 5:52-5:57. Newstead came out just slightly faster than the new zone in theory, though not on my garmin, which measured it slightly short because of all those trees.

  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    Skinny Fetish Fan wrote (see)

    Tommy - thanks - all interesting stuff - does that mean you can now get the answers to all our scientific type questions?


    Maybe, although I believe that the main guy is leaving in September / October.

    I have had my physiology report through, only had a quick glance but looks interesting and most importantly the training zones I've been using recently seem about right, although they suggest I should be doing more 'steady' running and slightly less easy running. I'm going to try and pop down and see them later this week to discuss it.

    Also of interest, is that they suggest that lactate threshold as a pace you can maintain for ~3 hours so is  approximately marathon pace, this is based on the first 'spike' in blood lactate levels above a baseline. Whereas I think we all think of threshold as the pace you could race for an hour? They refer to this as lactate turn point and is based on a speed where there is a sudden and sustained breakpoint in blood lactate.

  • literatin wrote (see)

    Surely grains were introduced long enough ago for us to have seen some evolutionary adaptation, though, Skinny?

    I just had some diet coke. I like to live on the edge.

    Yes but maybe not enough and remember that it is only recently that they have become such a large and encouraged part of our diet. Internet extract below.

     'Although some early types of wheat may have been grown as far back as 9000 B.C., people didn’t each much of it because it was difficult to eat in its raw form, and even when they figured out how to crack it open, to grind it, to sift it and to cook with it, these processes were laborious because they had only primitive tools. Whole grains also went rancid rather quickly because of the high oil content in the bran.

    It was eventually discovered that milling the grains (stripping away the germ and the bran) made it so the grains could be kept for longer and also produced a soft, unadulterated white flour. By the early 1800s, many mills had equipment so that they could produce this refined flour. Demand for white flour grew as it became the desirable baking ingredient. Because it was more expensive than brown flour, it also became a status symbol.

    It wasn’t until the late 19th century that wheat production and consumption grew dramatically. One reason, as mentioned before, was the use of the new, hardier strains of wheat. (Today, wheat can be grown every month of the year somewhere in the world.) Also at this time, great advancements were made in the technology used to grow, harvest, mill and transport wheat. Inventions such as the reaper, the steel plow, and high speed steel roller mills, helped produce huge quantities of finer, whiter flour. Railroads provided better transport of the flour, making it available to more people, and better ovens allowed them to bake with it even more. With all of these advances, the masses had access to the refined wheat flour that was once a luxury of the wealthy.

    They also found new ways to eat wheat. Though eating a big bowl of cereal for breakfast seems the norm today, it was only in the late 1890′s that breakfast cereal was invented as a health food to help people with digestive problems! Kellogg and Post were among the first to come up with processed cereals in the form of flakes, shredded wheat and Grape Nuts. It was around this time that Quaker introduced oatmeal and Cream of Wheat was born. The popularity of cereal continued to rise throughout the decades — the cereal of today is not quite the health food it was once thought to be!

    Though wheat consumption slowed a little bit from 1920 through the Great Depression and World War II, people were encouraged to find alternatives for meat and dairy due to war rationing. Thus, Kraft macaroni and cheese dinner, introduced in 1937, gained popularity during wartime and an entire pamphlet of recipes using Cream of Wheat instead of meat was published, with the slogan “Stretch Your Meat With Cream of Wheat.” The rise and fall in wheat consumption during World War II in five different countries correlated to the increase and decline in the number of schizophrenia patients admitted to hospitals in those countries, according to a 1966 study.

    By the time the 1960s and 1970s rolled around, wheat consumption began to rise again. People became concerned with heart disease and cholesterol and whole wheat was viewed as a healthy alternative to combat these health problems. Wheat consumption in the U.S. saw another grea

  • Okay, so the book is about wheat, but you said 'grains' before and I am a bit foreign, so what about rice, which people have been eating for many thousands of years?

  • Yes the book (which the above extract is not from) focusses on the US and wheat (but applies similarly to UK) but when I said grains I was not correct as I was thinking of the 'healthy, whole grains' we are all encouraged to eat which we typically consume as wheat.

    Your foreign bit that has been eating rice for thousands of years is not covered in either my book or the extract, but perhaps those people who have been eating rice for thousands of years have adapted - also brown rice is only slightly acidic and wild rice is mildly alkali - so I guess one would need to do a bit more research into rice.

    Anyway I've realised that what started out as me telling you about a book I was reading that I found interesting has become me being a bit preachy which I didn't mean to do as I've only been trying to be wheat free for a few weeks myself - so I'll drop it now.image

  • Lit - Whilst I knew that your (substantially) sub-3 marathon was bloody amazing, I guess I've got the same blind spot with marathons as you have with middle-distance when it comes to correlating them with the likes of 5k and 10k pace. Didn't really occur to me at the time to think what your marathon might theoretically predict over 5k. Can see now that it is a similar time to that which you eventually ran at Newstead - pleasing that you did manage to beat the prediction though off only a couple of months specific training. image

    Yeah Skinny, button it - I'm now feeling very insecure about the amount of pasta, cereal, bread and (white) rice I eat! image

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    I haven't got any hang-ups about the amount of carbs I eat, except the cereal habit was getting a bit out of hand recently, with a few cheeky extra bowls to get me through afternoons at work when I started ramping up twice-daily training, so I've got into the habit of eating more substantial lunches, often including more protein in the form of cold Spanish omelette (it's lovely, really!), which seems to have done the trick.

    Bob - I don't know whether the photographer was indoors/racing when you were doing your thing but you don't seem to have made it onto Sunday's pics.  But he did get outside in perfect time to capture me overtaking 2nd place with about 500m to go.  Not a gurn in sight, I'm not trying hard enough!



  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭

    I'm having pasta for my tea. Might have some garlic bread with it.

  • Phil - That's precisely the relaxed style and apparent control I recall you holding from Lap 1 right the way through to the finish - and that was what made it so impressive.

    Looks like the pictures of the others from my 800 are nudging towards over-exposure, and perhaps mine was just too over-exposed for him to publish. Shame - as I remember seeing the camera pointing right at me as I poured it all on coming down the straight. Bugger. You can, however, just make out a trailing figure coming round the top bend as Mike Toal (World Indoor Bronze medallist in March) prepares to cross the line for Gold - I am that trailing figure. image


  • PeteHewPeteHew ✭✭✭

    Late recommendation for lit.  Valvona and Crolla. Very Italian and very central. It had slipped my mind until we called in for a coffee this afternoon.

    Should also congratulate Bob on his gut-busting achievements while I'm here! imageimage

  • marrowsmarrows ✭✭✭

    Is that Liam Neeson in front of you, PP? I have emergency office weetabix and tinned mackerel. When I make spanish omelette there is a big mess, so it doesn't happen often - what's your secret?

  • Haha - I finally bought some shorter shorts for running and thought they were a bit too short but they are actually long trousers in comparison to PP's red running belt.

  • Preheat heavy-based pan to a uniform temperature and don't have the heat too high while you're cooking it, I'd say, Marrows. Also use plenty of butter.

    I have a selection of office snacks (including apples, grapes, rice cakes, oatcakes and cereal bars), but I also like to bring a packed lunch involving a giant salad (dressing in separate pot to avoid sogginess) and vast quantities of protein.

    Also in cereal news I have just bought some 'Beggar's Mantle' muesli made with local Fife oats, so will report back.

  • I also have bags of snacks beside my desk at work - today's selection pumpkin seeds, cashew nuts, brazil nuts, sultanas and a bar of dark chocolate.image

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭
    literatin wrote (see)

    Preheat heavy-based pan to a uniform temperature and don't have the heat too high while you're cooking it, I'd say, Marrows. Also use plenty of butter.


    Eh??  Pre-bought in Waitrose, surely?  image

    SFF - The shorts did give me an enormous sense of freedom in that wind on Sunday.  image

  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    Skinny Fetish Fan wrote (see)

    Haha - I finally bought some shorter shorts for running and thought they were a bit too short but they are actually long trousers in comparison to PP's red running belt.

    I thought that was the over exposure Bob was on about.

    Jo Pavey image. Again. Perfectly judged race and storming last lap.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    I could do with getting my hands on a pair of short shorts like that.

    Did my 4 x 8 min tonight. I replicated the exact route from when I last did this session on 27 may, pretty much at the start of this block. Then they came out 6.38 (164), 6.42 (169), 6.43 (169), 6.46(171). 

    Today they came out 6.34(166), 6.35(169), 6.28(172), 6.34(170).

    Looks like some improvement. It all felt pretty comfortable so I was surprised to find my Hr went as high as 172. 

  • That sounds like a good effort DT but I'm a bit out of touch with what paces beneath 7 min miles equate to - still faster and lower heart rate than 10 weeks ago so training is improving you which is good.

    Tommy I blubbed again at Jo Pavey - magnificent, and she looked like she was struggling for a lot of race despite what Brendan kept saying.

    Haha to Bob's over exposure image

    Re your study results I can't really see the point from a training perspective of knowing a pace you can run for 3 hours for - even in marathon training that must only be about 6 runs?
  • Haha. Look what I've got:



  • Haha - winner's cake! The Ceres 8 was to your liking then? Well done!
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