Overdone it?

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  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Some good running there, Muddy. I've been ticking over building to a big end to the week. Managed a pyramid interval session Tuesday night which was largely unenjoyable and planning 5/6 miles at mp over lunch.
  • Muddy/DT - sounds like some decent sessions from both of you. Muddy - sounds like someone has been on a motorbike up that strava segment.

    I followed up Sunday's 20 with an easy 12 miles on Monday evening and the a very welcome rest day on Tuesday. Last night I decided to have a crack at the monthly 5K in Derby, there is also a road mile on the same evening which I have ran previously.

    Despite the fairly random location; a cycle track beside a ring road and round an industrial estate, the races attract a decent field with youngsters from local Athletic Clubs and rapid youths from local universities. Paid my £4 and then set off for a warm up, which was a fairly lacklustre affair but after a couple of miles I was feeling fairly decent so made a plan to try and stick as close to my training partner (who has a significantly better 5K time than me, but we're more evenly matched over longer distances) for as long as I could.

    Made our way to the start line, some minor chat about sticking to the right and then seamlessly into a 'take your marks and a loud shill whistle which caught a lot of people off guard. Tonnes of people streaming off and I feel like I'm in 100th place and probably near the back of the field despite the watch showing 5:30 pace. After a few hundred yards everything has settled down a bit and I'm in a small group headed up by my mate. Another club mate is well up the road. Round the industrial estate for the first time to bring up the first mile in 5:48 and just behind my mate.

    The second mile is effectively an out and back down a cycle track, everything felt pretty good and I'm wondering when it's going to start to really hurt. At some point in this mile my club mate pulls away and a couple of the group drop off the back but I still have two others to run with, second mile comes up in 6 dead, which is a bit slower than I'd like but I'm feeling ok and pretty sure I can maintain this pace despite knackeration starting to creep in.  

    The third mile repeats the first mile, but this time we have a lorry to negotiate in the middle of the industrial estate which isn't ideal. In to the last half mile and the girl in our group of three is starting to slow, me and the guy start to pull away. Into the final run in and I try to move away from the other dude but he unleashes a fairly ferocious kick (I later learn that he's a former 1:55 800m man albeit from a few years ago but guess you never lose that sort of finish!). On to the grass and in to the finish funnel, fumble stopping the watch, not really sure on total time but fairly convinced I've got a PB.

    Check the watch and it's 18:36, later corrected to 18:35 due to the fumble. Last full mile in 5:57 and the scraps at 5:17 pace. So a 25 second 5K road PB and 15 seconds quicker than my best parkrun (which I measured a touch short). Didn't feel completely rinsed at the end either so I reckon there's a bit more to come off that too. The only slight annoyance is that it has an ARC Permit rather than a UKA one so won't be on PO10.

    My reward for the above seems to be a heavy cold, which is ideal ahead of the National XC on Saturday.   

  • Excellent run Tommy, and the pb was definitely due having observed the sorts of sessions you are doing at the moment.  I bet if you weren't brewing the cold you'd have been able to give it a bit more too. Hope the cold flushes through fairly quickly - it's going to be a freezing one on Saturday, good luck.
  • Great stuff, Tommy!  Just reward (the pb not the cold!) for all those brutal sessions and cross-country races.  Hope you're ok for Saturday.
  • Gratz Tommy - awesome last mile!

    Great training from DT and the mudster. I've been running too but more moderately. Now that it's stopped raining incessantly I've ventured back onto the local common. Much prefer running off-road. Seems to put energy into my legs rather than taking it out.
  • Well done Tommy - smashed it! B)B)
  • I had a bit of a session last night after 5k on the treadmill at lunch. The idea was 2 x 3m around threshold as a bit of a half marathon focused session. However I've been doing hill reps up and down my road the past couple of weeks so wanted to continue that and see how things compared, so twisted it to make it a rolling hills session, with the emphasis on hitting threshold efforts going up the hill and maintaining marathon effort down the hill. 2 miles of warm up, then started work: 5 climbs, 5 descents in 17.40 for 2.8 miles. That left me pretty zapped, and so I almost called it a night, but very conscious of my half mara fade out at Lancaster I took 4 mins of jog recovery, then went at it again. This part felt significantly more sluggish but surprisingly came out much faster in 17.11. Glad to have banked that one in the end.

    Recovery miles (if any) today then it will be an hour of whatever I fancy on Saturday then a long run of maybe 13 with a fast 5k on Sunday.

    Hope everyone enjoys their weekends and good luck again in the big cross country Tommy.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Great work, Tommy. Been a long time coming that more conventional race effort. You need to get a 10k and a half in soon. Did you find one for next weekend?

    Mp run went well. Drew it out to 6 miles. Last 2 weeks iv ran 6.39 and 6.42 at 5 miles for 161. Yesterday I managed 6 at 6.38 for 158 which was pleasing.

    Day off today so got up and did a 20 miler. Feel quite tired now. Planning 15 as an mlr Sunday then a cut back/taper for Bath half next Sunday. 
  • Hope the xc went well, Tommy.

    After 51 weeks, I decided it was time for another proper race so I had a go at the Lostock 6 miler again today.  It was a beautiful morning but very cold especially when exposed to the stiff breeze.   I stayed well wrapped up for my warm up run during which I decided that I might develop hypothermia if I ran in vest and shorts only.  I’d already pinned my number to my vest so, back at the car, I swiftly took the vest off, pulled on a long sleeved top then wore the vest over that.  If I’d had some tights with me, I’d have put those on too.  I wore gloves, obviously.  Typing this brings to mind lit running cross-country in Scotland without any of this wussiness.   Please come back lit, we miss you!

    That’s the exciting part of my post done with.  Race itself wasn’t very memorable.  At one stage I was running behind a guy wearing a “Sons of Mudarchy OCR team” shirt.  What’s that about? I overtook Brian after about 4 km.  Lots of people overtook me.  One was a mature gentleman wearing a rather natty cravat – or was it a bouffant buff? Anyway, I thought I could try to stick with him to drag me up the long hill during kilometres 7 and 8.  Reader, I failed.  I managed to speed up for the next km after I finally crested the hill but ran out of oomph in the final few hundred metres.  It’s a measure of how hard I wasn’t finishing that I remembered to stop my watch as I crossed the line. 

    I realised that, for once, I was in no danger of retching and didn’t need to stand with my hands on my knees to recover.  I then realised that this probably meant that I hadn’t performed to my maximum.  Checking the time on my watch confirmed this. 

    44:12 is over half a minute slower than I ran last year.  Positives are that 1) I beat Brian much more easily than last year   2) I bumped into a speedy ex-colleague who was nearly a minute down on his 2017 time, blaming the wind   3) I ran in a real race without collapsing/blowing up/expiring   4) I rate this as a much better performance than my 23:01 parkrun last weekend.

    Looking back at the stats, I see that I started and finished quite strongly but let the pace drift too much in kms 3 to 6.  Other concern is that my average heart rate was only 153 compared to 158 last year.  Last weekend’s parkrun was only 151. This could be because I’m being too cautious and not putting in full race effort.  But it could be age catching up with me or it could be linked to my blood pressure tablets.  So far my thinking is that I need to push harder from the off and make sure I maintain the effort through the middle miles.  Then tough it out.  Could be messy! 

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Excellent work, Pete. They are all potential reasons why your hr is lower than it has been, that aside though your own description of finish pain suggests you didn't work hard enough. I think getting used to racing will make you race better as you'll learn after a few what level of discomfort you can manage. 

    20 miles went well Friday. Legs were a bit tired but came in without any undue discomfort at 8.05mm. Followed it up yesterday with spin in the morning then a very slow 3.6 mile recovery at 9.05mm. Legs started sore but felt very bouncy by the end. Today, an extemely comfortable 15 at 7.54mm. That gives me 60 miles for week which is my highest ever week. Previous highest was 57 in 2014. I'm now chasing my highest ever mileage month. I'm on 182 and highest is 193. Realistically I want to hit 200. 
  • 60 miles DT - sounds like sub 3 training in full flow now you've got started.

    I ran 2.25 miles with my stupid insoles in which I've been walking in for about 3 weeks so was time to test them on a run. Foot actually didn't hurt at all (good) but not surprisingly my knees are stiff as .... today so the problem is pushed up my legs until I get used to it - going to have to be slow and steady.

    In other news I have finally accepted London Marathon walked would be a shit way to spend a weekend so instead I am walking the West Highland Way with Mrs Skinny starting on 20th April so that should keep me away from the misery of watching it on the telly. 

    Well done Pete on the run - enjoyed the report - does it cross your mind that if you are on blood pressure tablets perhaps hitting max heart rate is not a good idea or is that just me being medically ignorant?

    Looks like a cold week ahead.

    Cheers, Skinny.
  • Glad you raced  Pete, you can look at it another way, you raced it a lot more efficiently in terms of beats per mile than last year. The wind is undoubtedly responsible for the slight difference in times. You should take on better advice than mine if you are worried about pushing things though. I am also keeping fingers crossed for a Lit return, I mean she has stuff to report after all...

    I am also chasing my highest mileage month for about 6 months too DT, but mindful of the need to cut back shortly for Bath half.

    13 miles with 5km at mara effort for me today, after 6 miles with 5x400m around half mara effort being what I fancied yesterday. My 5k mara effort today was again courtesy of Great Run Local, and again first finisher for me. It was also a win against myself, finishing about 1 min 15 s faster than two weeks ago for a slightly lower heart rate on a windier day. I don’t feel confident about saying this, as it may tempt fate, but finally looks like things are on the up this year.


  • Cross post: That makes sense Skinny. I was wondering about the insoles - what are they made out of ? Are they comfortable to walk in ? 
  • Hard plasticy rubber and then the top bit is very similar to the insole in a trainer - they are just designed to mean my foot lands flat and stable rather than at an angle and rolls - hence the totally different impact on my knees (and also my adductors aren't liking it either).

    Are they comfortable? With the trainers not so bad because I take out the insole which makes room for the insole but my shoes don't really have anything to take out and there really isn't enough room for my feet - when I was flying last week and my feet swelled up a bit it was actually hurting but if I can run 2.25 miles without my foot failing me then everything else is just a minor inconvenience. 
  • Hello everyone! Delighted to hear about Tommy's PB and also (especially) the ease with which Pete beat Brian. And that is also excellent news about the new orthotics if they mean you can actually run, Skinny.

    In Scottish news, I am currently on strike and it is sodding freezing on the picket lines, but at least my cross country experience is proving invaluable with the classic 'three coats' technique. And I raced the national xc on Saturday and wasn't actually that shit for a change, coming 34th out of 271 in a pleasing return to form. The longer course (10k but actually more like 10.5) and firm underfoot conditions suited me quite well and I've been a bit more consistent with my training now that some of the house move excitement is over.
  • Yay! What a red letter day with Skinny and lit both posting.  This makes me happy :)

    Really pleased to hear about the pain free run, Skinny.  You were certainly overdue a turn around in fortune.  West Highland Way sounds ace.  I'd like to do more walks in Scotland myself.

    Solidarity to lit and the striking university staff.  I appreciate having a decent pension and don't see why you lot shouldn't have one too. Congratulations on the house move and on an excellent showing in the national xc country race!

    Thanks, DT.  I think you may be right that I need to race my way back to race fitness.  Your marathon training seems to be off to a good start.

    I like your positive take on my heart rate, muddy.  I'd just like to be as efficient at a higher heart rate.  Sounds like you are in a good place for a half next weekend. Hope so.

    I don't understand the link between bp and hr, Skinny, which is why I have been so cautious in my return to racing.  I'll try to ratchet it up a bit further soon and see what happens. My gut feeling (or wishful thinking) is that my blood pressure is high when I am mentally stressed not when I'm exerting myself physically.

    I've saved the best bit until last.  I often find that when I wake in the morning I immediately know the answer to a crossword clue that had stumped me the day before.  In similar vein, I woke today to the realisation that "Sons of Mudarchy" have nothing to do with optical character recognition but are an Obstacle Course Racing team.  Glad to have sorted that out!  Not sure why the guy was running a road race.  The only obstacles on the course were a few patches of ice on a rural section near the start but these had very wisely been coned off by the organisers.
  • Me again.  Wigan in a winter wonderland.  3 to 4cm blanket of snow first thing.  Sun came out mid-morning so I dug out my old trail shoes (this seems to happen only once every two years) and had a lovely easy run of 10.8km.  Much of the snow has melted now.  I just hope we don't have a big freeze overnight.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Skinny, sounds positive if it allows you to run. Often things like that do end up causing more problems for people than they solve, though I suspect they are people that don't build up slowly.

    Hi Lit, well done on the xc. My first full season of zero xc!

    Well done on the snow run, Pete. Yes, melting then freezing are the worst combination.

    I did my 4 miles at hmp today in advance of the Bath half. Plan was to aim at 6.20 and a hr of high 160s. The reality was very different. Average pace came in 6.10mm with splits of 6.13, 6.10, 6.09 and 6.08 and wait for it.........hr was a mere 165. The effort I suffered was commensurate to that hr. My thoughts in the final mile were not 'this needs to end' but more 'this is 10k pb pace shall I keep going'! At the finish there was no hands to knees breathlessness, just a brief pause to review the stats whilst I kept walking then off on my cool down.

    It's one of those runs were i'm still sat here wondering if there was some mistake. Same run at end of August (when I felt in good shape) was 6.25mm for 170bpm, with splits gradually slowing.

    I'm on 192 miles for February. My highest ever monthly total is 193. I suspect I shall be doing an 8 mile mlr tomorrow night!

  • Afternoon.

    DT - great session, sounds like you're on for a great time at Bath at the weekend. Sub 3 seems to be well and truly in your sights.

    Pete - top work on the Lostock  and easily beating Brian. I reckon by running a couple more races / parkruns will help.

    Skinny - promising with the orthotics, guess they will take some getting used to.

    Lit - good to see you're back racing and racing well.

    So after last weeks 5k race, I went down with a heavy cold which I just couldn't shift and therefore made the sensible decision to not go to London to trudge 12k XC. Was a bit disappointed as I've never ran the Nationals at Parliament hill before but it was the right decision. Have managed a couple of easy runs this week despite the snow, more of the same over the next couple of days I suspect.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    The nationals at Parliament hill are on my list of runs to do. Shame the cold took hold of you though.

    I managed 8 miles last night to give me exactly 200 for February, which is pleasing given it is a miserable and short. so exactly 50 miles a week average.

    Tapering now for sunday. I always race a half the first weekend of March and the weather is always awful! Tuesdays session has certainly thrown things up in the air. I wondered having missed most of January where it would leave and planned to be satisfied if I could just creep sub 85. Now I am wondering if I can go for 1.22.

  • DT - Looking good. The way things are going I'll struggle to keep up with your 6.11 min/mile with a marathon effort run. I felt off yesterday, then woke up with a splitting head this morning, car wouldn't start with -10 on the temperature gauge.

    Skinny  - Cheers, I've been experimenting with cutting out bits of old insoles to insert into my right shoe to help stop an inward rotation of the knee. Along with the glute work, it seems to have been working as my calf is notably less tight on that side. I was wondering if I needed to consider something more permanent.

    Tommy - Unlike DT, I regard that as a lucky escape :) Seriously, hope you feel better soon.

    Lit - Congratulations on the house move, the high finish and getting back into the swing of training. I see on the news that Fife has been on red alert with the weather. Possibly the worst week of the year to be on a picket line :anguished:

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muddy, I am not quite sure I have the confidence to set out and aim for that pace sunday morning, but then who knows what will happen with that surge of adrenaline!
  • Perhaps the enforced relatively short rest was the best training you could do?
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    you could well be right, Skinny. I don't think I ever really gave myself the chance to recover after the Brum Mara, so perhaps this was what my body needed to move on.
  • Wow - Bath Half still expected to go ahead - good luck DT and Muddy
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Can't even get out of my own street at the moment ! Last run was Tuesday night for me, and not even feeling like using the gym, so just taking this as a (very much) down week. 

    I expect they will postpone it though - an announcement to be made after a meeting at 1pm today. From the Facebook page it looks like there is far too much snow in the surrounding areas and reports of snow drifts on the route. In fact they haven't been able to inspect the route due to travel restrictions.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I think it's just such a big event they really don't want to have to cancel it so looking at every option. in my view it's simply delaying the inevitable. 
  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭

    I'd be amazed if Bath half went ahead. All the races local to me have been cancelled for this weekend as well as most of the local parkruns.  I was planning on doing a 2 mile leg of the relays hosted by the University on Saturday but will make do with a trudge round the parkrun which is entirely run on grass.

    I couldn't drive out of my street until lunchtime today, I did however, make it out of my street for a run yesterday morning. 15 miles in total through some pretty thick non-trodden snow which was great fun to start with but was a bit gruelling towards the end, the final mile up the steep hill to my house nearly broke me.    

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Bath cancelled.

    Tommy, do you know much about Retford half?
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